When is it fair to report on the upkeep of New Fantasyland?

[Patricia Melton]

I'm curious as to when people think it's fair to give TDO a grade for the upkeep of New Fantasyland and to really get a good feel for how guests are responding to it. I'm writing this on 12/28/2012 and New Fantasyland officially opened on December 6th (I believe). Would one month from its opening be a fair date for people to evaluate how things are holding up?

I ask because in another thread I see that Madame Wardrobe's effects are already not working, there are starfish and other pieces missing from the Little Mermaid queue, and Storybook Circus has some things missing here and there that were originally part of the decorations when that area opened. The addition of the railings around Casey Jr. could also be included in this list of things that have happened since these areas were first revealed to the public.

I'm very interested in watching how TDO maintains everything they built in New Fantasyland. I want to see how on the ball maintenance is being...but I also want to see how smart the Imagineers were in designing things so that they hold up to the constant wear and tear of the public. And I am fascinated by the changes that TDO has to make to things in response to guest use.

Is it too early to be looking at things like this? I think everyone should have a period of "working the bugs out" but I also think a point should come when it's fair to take a look a things and see how well it's all being received.

Is a one-month period after the opening enough or should we wait to grade TDO on upkeep until the springtime? I don't think I ever followed a project as closely as I did New Fantasyland so it's interesting for me as a fan to watch how everything holds up and weathers now that it's mostly been built.

 

[kap91]

I'd wait 6 months before making any serious judgements. By that time any recurring issues should have been worked out, management will have experienced a range of crowd levels, etc. 1 month is too short, especially when that month is the busiest of the year both in terms of crowds and the amount of work being done by all departments. In six months there are essentially no real excuses, right now you could argue there are.

 

[Rose&Crowner]

Is it too early to be looking at things like this? I think everyone should have a period of "working the bugs out" but I also think a point should come when it's fair to take a look a things and see how well it's all being received.

I think if you see it in person and it's not working you can legitimatly lodge a complaint to Town Hall. If you haven't seen it and wont until I don't know, your annual family trip in May, and send something up the flag pole you may be seen as a prima donna in the ballet of malcontents.

Keep your pants on.

 

[Patricia Melton]

I think if you see it in person and it's not working you can legitimatly lodge a complaint to Town Hall. If you haven't seen it and wont until I don't know, your annual family trip in May, and send something up the flag pole you may be seen as a prima donna in the ballet of malcontents.

Keep your pants on.

I don't have to wait until May to be following what's happening on the ground.

I'm very interested in how things are holding up and what's working and what's not. And I'm very interested in what other people's expectations are for the upkeep of New Fantasyland.

This is a great opportunity to see first hand in real time how good TDO is at protecting an investment it makes in new construction...or to see if it really will just move on to the next thing and not keep FLE up in terms of maintenance and repairs.

 

[NYwdwfan]

I think if you see it in person and it's not working you can legitimatly lodge a complaint to Town Hall. If you haven't seen it and wont until I don't know, your annual family trip in May, and send something up the flag pole you may be seen as a prima donna in the ballet of malcontents.

Keep your pants on.

That line made me giggle.

 

[marni1971]

In all fairness... now. It's officially open. You're paying top dollar for a top drawer experience. You should get what you're paying for.

I've just been looking at my footage from soft openings. I did Story Time With Belle on September 29th, Aerials Undersea Adventures on October 11th. That's more than enough time.

Etc. etc.

 

[wdwmagic]

The soft opens are designed to work out the kinks, everything should be spot on by official open, which was Dec 6.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I ask because in another thread I see that Madame Wardrobe's effects are already not working, there are starfish and other pieces missing from the Little Mermaid queue, and Storybook Circus has some things missing here and there that were originally part of the decorations when that area opened. The addition of the railings around Casey Jr. could also be included in this list of things that have happened since these areas were first revealed to the public.

Strictly speaking, Madame Wardrobe's effects not working are not a maintenance issue. Unless there is some CM whose job it is to oil the thing every morning and he/she forgot. We're talking about either the mechanical parts not being designed properly (it will always be broken, or will frequently break), versus a breaking period where things need to be fine-tuned and unexpected bugs need to be fixed.

There is a big difference between a month of operation and just a couple days, and hidden mechanical problems may crop up a month, or even a year later, and result in a redesign.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

The soft opens are designed to work out the kinks, everything should be spot on by official open, which was Dec 6.

RSR in Disneyland still has kinks months after opening, a lot of rides have an extended breaking in period, such as Indy in DLR. No doubt things will be fined tuned over the following months, year . . . even years.

 

[RunnerEd]

Disclosure: I'm not an insider and have never driven a bus at WDW.

I have read in several places that WDI gives the park a "warranty" period on new attractions when they perform all or most maintenance functions. If memory serves, it is 1 year and then it is the park's baby. If that is the case, then WDI is dropping the ball on the listed issues in New Fantasyland, not TDO. No, I can't believe that I just sort of defended TDO. I would give them until late 2013 to really screw things up and start installing strobe lights on the waterfalls!

 

[tirian]

To answer your question succinctly, now is the time to start holding them accountable on mechanical issues. (Now is the time...now is the best time...) Everything is still under WDI warranty and operation, and there's no reason to let mechanical issues remain broken. Because I worked in the parks years ago before getting a desk job, I'm willing to let some of the cleaning issues slide until January. Guests are truly rough on Fantasyland and Tomorrowland during the crowded holiday season, and because Disney cut its maintenance force in the early 2000s, the reduced crew can't keep up with the damage guests inflict for two crazy weeks. But as soon as the crowds leave, all the scuffs and scraped paint, the missing props and carved wooden posts, should be immediately repaired.

Of course, if Disney still had the maintenance crew it employed for about 28 years, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But then the MBAs who hope to leave Disney in a few years wouldn't have spreadsheets to brag about. (FWIW, I do have an MBA—I just acknowledge that money isn't everything.)

I'm curious as to when people think it's fair to give TDO a grade for the upkeep of New Fantasyland and to really get a good feel for how guests are responding to it. I'm writing this on 12/28/2012 and New Fantasyland officially opened on December 6th (I believe). Would one month from its opening be a fair date for people to evaluate how things are holding up?

I ask because in another thread I see that Madame Wardrobe's effects are already not working, there are starfish and other pieces missing from the Little Mermaid queue, and Storybook Circus has some things missing here and there that were originally part of the decorations when that area opened. The addition of the railings around Casey Jr. could also be included in this list of things that have happened since these areas were first revealed to the public.

I'm very interested in watching how TDO maintains everything they built in New Fantasyland. I want to see how on the ball maintenance is being...but I also want to see how smart the Imagineers were in designing things so that they hold up to the constant wear and tear of the public. And I am fascinated by the changes that TDO has to make to things in response to guest use.

Is it too early to be looking at things like this? I think everyone should have a period of "working the bugs out" but I also think a point should come when it's fair to take a look a things and see how well it's all being received.

Is a one-month period after the opening enough or should we wait to grade TDO on upkeep until the springtime? I don't think I ever followed a project as closely as I did New Fantasyland so it's interesting for me as a fan to watch how everything holds up and weathers now that it's mostly been built.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Strictly speaking, Madame Wardrobe's effects not working are not a maintenance issue. Unless there is some CM whose job it is to oil the thing every morning and he/she forgot. We're talking about either the mechanical parts not being designed properly (it will always be broken, or will frequently break), versus a breaking period where things need to be fine-tuned and unexpected bugs need to be fixed.

There is a big difference between a month of operation and just a couple days, and hidden mechanical problems may crop up a month, or even a year later, and result in a redesign.

I'm really upset about Madame Wardrobe having problems and them putting a sack on her head to hide her some days...and the attraction has been officially opened for less than one month.

Someone should lose his or her job over that alone...since it's clearly a design issue and whoever signed off on this should be held accountable. I think there was not enough practical testing of the effects and they just relied on what the computers told them would happen.

As an outsider looking in on how they seem to do things, I think Imagineering is suffering by not having someone older and more experienced running the practical testing of things...and I think we're paying the price of having the CGI and computer-dependent guys in charge of the fabrication.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Disclosure: I'm not an insider and have never driven a bus at WDW.

I have read in several places that WDI gives the park a "warranty" period on new attractions when they perform all or most maintenance functions. If memory serves, it is 1 year and then it is the park's baby. If that is the case, then WDI is dropping the ball on the listed issues in New Fantasyland, not TDO. No, I can't believe that I just sort of defended TDO. I would give them until late 2013 to really screw things up and start installing strobe lights on the waterfalls!

This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for when I posted my OP.

I really want to see people held accountable with New Fantasyland. I think we as fans can do this. I'm keeping a spreadsheet for notes on things I see recorded as being broken already and the dates that I see people report them. I think New Fantasyland should be a great case study to see how things are either maintained or how they fall apart.

They spent a lot of money building this...and if they don't take care of it properly then they should be called on the carpet for it.

I think TDO has largely ignored people who say the park has been falling apart because critics don't have specifics that can be shown to TDO without excuses being made...but here's an instance where everything is brand new in December 2012 and it's already breaking and falling apart. This can't be blamed on long-term neglect or budget cuts...this is a deeper problem. If things aren't being built correctly to begin with then that's a whole other area that needs addressing besides maintenance and upkeep.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Guests are truly rough on Fantasyland and Tomorrowland during the crowded holiday season, and because Disney cut its maintenance force in the early 2000s, the reduced crew can't keep up with the damage guests inflict for two crazy weeks. But as soon as the crowds leave, all the scuffs and scraped paint, the missing props and carved wooden posts, should be immediately repaired.

My family was in the restaurant business for many years (franchises). There was a time when the big thing for companies was to point to DIsney as the highest standard in not only guest service but also cleanliness and upkeep. I wish I still had the training binder, but once I had to attend a conference and I remember a big section all about how Disney kept the parks spotlessly clean and also how they painted anything that needed it every night. This was a big section of that conference and I think someone from Disney itself came to deliver that lecture.

I don't remember when I first noticed things needing paint or looking shabby, but I know it's been at least 10 years. At first it was very shocking...and then I kind of got used to the parks not being as clean and spotless and gleaming as they used to be.

So, New Fantasyland is a test case. If they keep it up and make sure everything gets repaired after the Christmas rush then that means some of the old commitment to quality remains. If they let the chipped paint and the missing props and the broken pieces stay messed up, then we know for sure that the old spirit of perfectionism is dead at WDW.

In my opinion, if we keep watching what's happening in New Fantasyland we'll have real solid proof one way or the other. I am rooting for them to keep it looking gorgeous and to prove the critics wrong...but I will admit TDO has dropped the ball if that's how it turns out.

 

[Tim Lohr]

We have a 30 year old Teddy Ruxpin doll my brother just pulled out of the attic for his baby daughter and IT STILL WORKS, the fact that the Madame Wardrobe is broken after a month should be a huge embarrassment to them and extremely annoying to anyone who paid money and stood in line to see the show

Unfortunately I'm not surprised to hear about this though, since they had to add a last minute fence around Casey Jr. and the new Dumbos were scraping against the pool shortly after that opened. I guess when they do a dozen new attractions at once there is going to be things that get over looked along the way, but I'm waiting till the Mine Train is finished to go see any of the new stuff in person, I'll just have to hope everything is still working by then

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'm really upset about Madame Wardrobe having problems and them putting a sack on her head to hide her some days...and the attraction has been officially opened for less than one month.

Someone should lose his or her job over that alone...since it's clearly a design issue and whoever signed off on this should be held accountable. I think there was not enough practical testing of the effects and they just relied on what the computers told them would happen.

As an outsider looking in on how they seem to do things, I think Imagineering is suffering by not having someone older and more experienced running the practical testing of things...and I think we're paying the price of having the CGI and computer-dependent guys in charge of the fabrication.

Ah, Madam Wardrobe is an animatronic, maybe even designed by Garner Holt, unless you're talking about the foam face, then they really didn't do any computer modeling. It is something that is custom built, and is a pretty simple animatronic when we don't count the new flexible foam stuff they are using.

Also, it is not "clearly a design issue" as it could be something as simple as a linear actuator failing prematurely, *or* they could be in the middle of reprogramming the effect, or it could be something with the software. If your car gets a flat, or the engine has problems because of a bad spark plug, you don't immediately write the car company complaining about a design issue.

No doubt they did run a "practical" test of the wardrobe, she's been going for about a month right? Sometimes issues creep up a little bit later. Don't really think anybody should lose their job . . .

 

[Rose&Crowner]

We have a 30 year old Teddy Ruxpin doll my brother just pulled out of the attic for his baby daughter and IT STILL WORKS

How on earth did you get a Teddy Ruxpin three years before they came out? Do you know Simon McKay? Or did your parents perhaps work at W.o.W?!

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

We have a 30 year old Teddy Ruxpin doll my brother just pulled out of the attic for his baby daughter and IT STILL WORKS, the fact that the Madame Wardrobe is broken after a month should be a huge embarrassment to them and extremely annoying to anyone who paid money and stood in line to see the show

Yeah, but if you were using your Teddy Ruxpin for 20 shows a day for a month, it might have problems too. Not that I'm excusing TDO on this, especially since there are two Madam Wardrobes after passing through the mirror as there are two identical show areas. Madam Wardrobe is a neat part of the show, but I wouldn't be overly upset if this character was broken and everything else was OK. Lumiere, Belle and the Beast are more integral, and if something was wrong with one of these, the show probably wouldn't go on.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

My family was in the restaurant business for many years (franchises). There was a time when the big thing for companies was to point to DIsney as the highest standard in not only guest service but also cleanliness and upkeep.

. . .

So, New Fantasyland is a test case. If they keep it up and make sure everything gets repaired after the Christmas rush then that means some of the old commitment to quality remains. If they let the chipped paint and the missing props and the broken pieces stay messed up, then we know for sure that the old spirit of perfectionism is dead at WDW.

In my opinion, if we keep watching what's happening in New Fantasyland we'll have real solid proof one way or the other. I am rooting for them to keep it looking gorgeous and to prove the critics wrong...but I will admit TDO has dropped the ball if that's how it turns out.

Are we talking McDonalds franchises as a "restaurant"? Just curious.

Also, yes, Disney used to hold itself to a higher standard, replacing light bulbs at 80% of their expected lifetime before they burned out (they would use these bulbs backstage btw).

BUT . . . immediate upkeep post FLE opening doesn't mean much, one way or another, when it comes to signs of overall upkeep. I'd think you'd have to look at all of the parks over a span of a couple years to judge overall upkeep. WDW doesn't have the rabid fan base that Disneyland has, and I dont' think FLE opening necessarily means better upkeep. There are some positive signs, Country Bear Refurb, and some negatives such as running Splash into the ground while delaying a major refurb.

FLE is great for little kids (at least in theory), but in some respects I think this means less upkeep/meticulously maintained details as TDO thinks that kids won't notice small stuff like Flotsam and Jetsom not working in Mermaid, and given that the ride is not meant to wow adults, I think little stuff will go in, and out, of operation. I've ridden Mermaid at DCA maybe eight times, (could have made it 50 as there isn't much of a line), and I've only rarely seen Flotsam/Jetsom move.

 

[Patricia Melton]

We have a 30 year old Teddy Ruxpin doll my brother just pulled out of the attic for his baby daughter and IT STILL WORKS, the fact that the Madame Wardrobe is broken after a month should be a huge embarrassment to them and extremely annoying to anyone who paid money and stood in line to see the show

Unfortunately I'm not surprised to hear about this though, since they had to add a last minute fence around Casey Jr. and the new Dumbos were scraping against the pool shortly after that opened. I guess when they do a dozen new attractions at once there is going to be things that get over looked along the way, but I'm waiting till the Mine Train is finished to go see any of the new stuff in person, I'll just have to hope everything is still working by then

I forgot about the Dumbos scraping against the cement when they were first installed in the new Storybook Circus area.

Once again, this is something that the computer models they used to "test" the attractions before production didn't predict would happen...but something I think the old time Imagineers would have foreseen with their practical tests and physical models.