When are all these cutbacks not about COVID anymore?

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The cost to benefit is in the eye of the purchaser, and as with most Disney guests there are some that will pay for a Disney TRIP no matter what because of brand value. When that begins to change and more people decide not to spend the dollars in Disney they will discount, offer packages or do what they can to entice the brand loyalists to remain.

Disney has a reasonable usage of understanding because of the pandemic where people will pay to have a vacation while no one can go anywhere right now nationally, even if it's difficult to do. Disney will offer the best TRIP they can while salvaging the bottom line, I think any business would do that right now.

FTFY...sorry, pet peeve

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Face it, folks... until March, Disney was a 12-ounce "pound of coffee." Same size can, just less inside. "New and improved," but the major improvement was for the stockholders' dividends and executives' salaries.

The pandemic has taken out a couple more ounces of coffee. Are they ever coming back?

Let's put it this way -- the Disney 10-ounce can is the same size, same price... even being rationed and regulated... and people are still buying it. Why would they put the ounces back?

The savvy consumer will shop for amusement like they do for coffee -- either find another brand that still gives you more ounces for your entertainment dollar, or buy when the product goes on sale.

No wonder Disney put Starbucks in their parks...

Good call

This is a great analogy. The unfortunate problem is, those 10 ounces taste a lot better than the 16 ounces other entertainment options provide.

The problem is a long term one:
You have mercenary management with no incentive to think longterm...so the burn is slow, but eventually what you are saying (correctly) will no longer be true. No recovery from that...it’s a matter of time unless you prevent it.

 

[bryanfze55]

The problem is a long term one:
You have mercenary management with no incentive to think longterm...so the burn is slow, but eventually what you are saying (correctly) will no longer be true. No recovery from that...it’s a matter of time unless you prevent it.

I agree there’s a problem, but I would make two counterpoints:

1) I think we may underestimate Disney’s ability to coast on legacy. I think most of us go for the stuff that was there long before Iger was a “thing.”

2) I don’t think Disney’s cup of coffee is the only one getting smaller. I think this is an industry-wide problem that was only exacerbated by the pandemic. I see a future in which we’re all getting worse coffee no matter where we go, but Disney’s will remain the best-tasting albeit not the fullest.

 

[crawale]

They need to be cheap until attendance and spending returns to a respectable level.

People won't go until the fireworks, longer hours and more restaurants are back so this is Catch 22

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree there’s a problem, but I would make two counterpoints:

1) I think we may underestimate Disney’s ability to coast on legacy. I think most of us go for the stuff that was there long before Iger was a “thing.”

2) I don’t think Disney’s cup of coffee is the only one getting smaller. I think this is an industry-wide problem that was only exacerbated by the pandemic. I see a future in which we’re all getting worse coffee no matter where we go, but Disney’s will remain the best-tasting albeit not the fullest.

Great points...

I agree on the “coast”...I think Disney has enough “rope” to coast past my lifetime...

But it still will diminish as it goes...the glider loses momentum. Friction and stuff

 

[DisAl]

I think they are using covid-19 as an excuse for a lot of things they want to cut but can't come up with a valid reason otherwise. For example, they say they are not doing the gingerbread houses at any of the resorts because of social distancing. Do they think we are stupid? If they can handle social distancing for other attractions they could certainly handle it around a gingerbread house. Just another cost cut with covid-19 getting the blame. You can bet that a lot of the "plusses" that have made WDW special will never come back.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think they are using covid-19 as an excuse for a lot of things they want to cut but can't come up with a valid reason otherwise. For example, they say they are not doing the gingerbread houses at any of the resorts because of social distancing. Do they think we are stupid? If they can handle social distancing for other attractions they could certainly handle it around a gingerbread house. Just another cost cut with covid-19 getting the blame. You can bet that a lot of the "plusses" that have made WDW special will never come back.

Gingerbread is More about the labor to do it than any tangible “cost” savings...
Since we are now in “recession” mode...I’ll let everyone In on a secret: it’s all about the elimination of labor.

It’s been a thorn in their side since DAK and one they can’t shake.

So we will have 6,000 threads here (probably 5x on the sugar bubblegum drop forums) that start out “why did they cut _____ ?”...and ill answer them all right now: labor

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

Gingerbread is More about the labor to do it than any tangible “cost” savings...
Since we are now in “recession” mode...I’ll let everyone In on a secret: it’s all about the elimination of labor.

It’s been a thorn in their side since DAK and one they can’t shake.

So we will have 6,000 threads here (probably 5x on the sugar bubblegum drop forums) that start our “why did they cut _____ ?”...and ill answer them all right now: labor

This post here should render this thread closed. This. This. This. Why people can’t understand it is wild. @wdwmagic lock it up. Nothing further to discuss.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Gingerbread is More about the labor to do it than any tangible “cost” savings...
Since we are now in “recession” mode...I’ll let everyone In on a secret: it’s all about the elimination of labor.

It’s been a thorn in their side since DAK and one they can’t shake.

So we will have 6,000 threads here (probably 5x on the sugar bubblegum drop forums) that start out “why did they cut _____ ?”...and ill answer them all right now: labor

All of these cuts are COVID related for sure! Not for social distancing, but to reduce costs anyway they can to try to mitigate the loss of business from the forced shutdown due to COVID!

I fear the castle lights are gone FOR GOOD! Yes this year due to cost savings caused by COVID, but I fear they will be gone for good and replaced by the dreaded projection mapping COVID was just the excuse Disney needed!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

All of these cuts are COVID related for sure! Not for social distancing, but to reduce costs anyway they can to try to mitigate the loss of business from the forced shutdown due to COVID!

I fear the castle lights are gone FOR GOOD! Yes this year due to cost savings caused by COVID, but I fear they will be gone for good and replaced by the dreaded projection mapping COVID was just the excuse Disney needed!

My belief is that none of this is about “lost revenue”

Bob ain’t stupid (well...at least one of them isn’t...depending on the day)...they knew from the start that money was gone.

There is no way to recoup travel losses...it’s lost in real time. No going back.

But the pivot for Disney is to see how they can recenter their costs and revenue generating apparatus.

That’s the new reality. Hunker down.

 

[Disstevefan1]

My belief is that none of this is about “lost revenue”

Bob ain’t stupid (well...at least one of them isn’t...depending on the day)...they knew from the start that money was gone.

There is no way to recoup travel losses...it’s lost in real time. No going back.

But the pivot for Disney is to see how they can recenter their costs and revenue generating apparatus.

That’s the new reality. Hunker down.

You can argue as to why, you can name it whatever you want. Disney wants to cut costs, and raise prices (as they always did I guess) COVID is just is a beautiful excuse because they are making so much less money because of COVID.

 

[MisterPenguin]

WDW has in the past taken away things without the excuse of a pandemic.

They've added things in the past without the excuse of enticing people into the parks after a pandemic gutted attendance.

Certainly, the pandemic may have accelerated things that were doomed anyway (RoL, Primeval Whirl, VotLM), but if WDW wanted them gone, they would have been gone.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You can argue as to why, you can name it whatever you want. Disney wants to cut costs, and raise prices (as they always did I guess) COVID is just is a beautiful excuse because they are making so much less money because of COVID.

Then you have to reject the prices...which is what I have been screaming (via keyboard...I have witnesses) for over a decade.

But the consumers failed...and I bet they fail again.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

WDW has in the past taken away things without the excuse of a pandemic.

They've added things in the past without the excuse of enticing people into the parks after a pandemic gutted attendance.

Certainly, the pandemic may have accelerated things that were doomed anyway (RoL, Primeval Whirl, VotLM), but if WDW wanted them gone, they would have been gone.

I agree...

But recession is used as an “advantage”. It certainly was the last time and I don’t doubt it again.

The “oh no!...this is bad for Disney!” Assessments are superficial and ultimately incorrect on many levels

 

[Horizons '83]

Then you have to reject the prices...which is what I have been screaming (via keyboard...I have witnesses) for over a decade.

But the consumers failed...and I bet they fail again.

Not to totally disagree with you (I'm actually in a round about way agreeing with you) but there prices don't seem to aggressive given theme parks of the same level charge similar prices. A great example of where I personally reject prices, while not a theme park, is the Biltmore Estate in Asheville. I planned to surprise my wife for her birthday but the pries were $114 a person, $243 total for the both of us. To see an old building and go to a winery. There is no value there for me so I'm not going to reward that crazy pricing.

 

[tirian]

Was just thinking about this myself. The way Disney is operating currently is merely an amusement park, not as a theme park worth charging well over $100 per day for tickets. My fear is that when life returns to normal, Disney will be too cheap to fully restore the cuts they made. Even before Covid, cuts were made that diminished the value of a Disney vacation, especially for on-site guests. I thought the shortening of park hours and reduction of Extra Magic Hours was already going overboard the last couple of years prior to Covid. What’s happening now is utterly ridiculous.

They did it post 9/11. The resort still doesn’t have as many attractions, parades, shows, and even shops (gasp!) as it had right before the big tourism slump. Many recent additions have been headliners (FOP, ROTR), but if we compare the numbers of actual queues to spread around guests, there’s less to do than in ‘99/2000.

 

[tirian]

Not to totally disagree with you (I'm actually in a round about way agreeing with you) but there prices don't seem to aggressive given theme parks of the same level charge similar prices. A great example of where I personally reject prices, while not a theme park, is the Biltmore Estate in Asheville. I planned to surprise my wife for her birthday but the pries were $114 a person, $243 total for the both of us. To see an old building and go to a winery. There is no value there for me so I'm not going to reward that crazy pricing.

Local places have become bolder with overpricing because they’re following the example set by Disney and Uni.

Some say it’s to keep out the “riff-raff who would destroy everything,” but pricing has escalated well over the budget for most American families who are certainly not “riff-raff.” Truly wealthy people don’t want to stand in lines and battle stroller brigades on vacation. The pendulum has to swing back to the middle at some point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not to totally disagree with you (I'm actually in a round about way agreeing with you) but there prices don't seem to aggressive given theme parks of the same level charge similar prices. A great example of where I personally reject prices, while not a theme park, is the Biltmore Estate in Asheville. I planned to surprise my wife for her birthday but the pries were $114 a person, $243 total for the both of us. To see an old building and go to a winery. There is no value there for me so I'm not going to reward that crazy pricing.

Where that comparison fails (don’t take it personally) is the DURATION is left out.

People mostly do not go to Disney parks for a day. So while $125 a day may be inline with one off attractions...it doesn’t involve 7 nights of accommodations, air travel and 24/7 out of pocket food costs.

Disney pricing is outrageous if you go “total cost”

The false comparison is always broadway or sports/concerts.

Sure you pay $300 a head...but it’s one shot.

You can go and stay in a 4 Star in Manhattan and see a high end broadway show for the weekend and still come out at half what a 4 day trip to a middling wdw hotel will cost you...cause your tickets are at least $400 a head now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They did it post 9/11. The resort still doesn’t have as many attractions, parades, shows, and even shops (gasp!) as it had right before the big tourism slump. Many recent additions have been headliners (FOP, ROTR), but if we compare the numbers of actual queues to spread around guests, there’s less to do than in ‘99/2000.

Amen

 

[bryanfze55]

Where that comparison fails (don’t take it personally) is the DURATION is left out.

People mostly do not go to Disney parks for a day. So while $125 a day may be inline with one off attractions...it doesn’t involve 7 nights of accommodations, air travel and 24/7 out of pocket food costs.

Disney pricing is outrageous if you go “total cost”

The false comparison is always broadway or sports/concerts.

Sure you pay $300 a head...but it’s one shot.

You can go and stay in a 4 Star in Manhattan and see a high end broadway show for the weekend and still come out at half what a 4 day trip to a middling wdw hotel will cost you...cause your tickets are at least $400 a head now.

I think a valuable point that was previously made is that all entertainment has gotten incredibly expensive. Sure, a weekend trip to NYC is cheaper in absolute terms than a Disney trip, but it’s apples to oranges. A week of entertainment is inherently superior to two days of entertainment. A full week in NYC would be expensive (though not necessarily equal to Disney) assuming a nice hotel, good food and entertainment.

Duration matters, though, in terms of value. I would never fly somewhere for just one weekend. I would have to take several of those small trips per year to get my fix. I’d rather fly once per year and vacation for two weeks. You come out ahead that way, assuming you fly wherever you go.