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When are all these cutbacks not about COVID anymore?

techgeek

Well-Known Member
Many other posters have done a far better job then I can outlining the necessity and reality of current operations. For right now, the situation is what it is... with perhaps a few exceptions that might signal some future intent (...RoL, Dreamlights, parts of the Epcot plan, some entertainment decisions).

But as fast as 2020 is moving, it’s all any management team can do but try to stay on top of the situation and try to figure out what the rules are today... never mind what they think the rules might be tomorrow. Things are moving that fast, not just in hospitality but in every other sector with widespread supply and distribution challenges at the very least.

That being said, I’m sure it’s not lost on Disney or any other major company that this situation also could be seen as a once-in-a-business-lifetime opportunity to hit the reset button and rebuild certain things from scratch. For decades these boards and others have, perhaps rightly, accused Disney of ‘declining by degrees’ - trying to find small cuts that can be snuck in without drawing attention to themselves, while quietly working in the background to foster new streams of revenue. We have reacted loudly when one of those changes hits our personal magical place, but from a business perspective it’s been a textbook study across the board on how to successfully leverage brand loyalty while running a modern business empire.

Now, instead of declining by degrees, the opportunity presents itself - even necessitates - to build by degrees. Which means it’s just not ever going to be entirely the same, because you don’t build business the same way in 2020 that you did in 1972, and so much of WDW business was cruft kludged creatively (or not) on top of 1972. Instead of getting there the scenic route of small adaptations that we have grown accustomed to, we may find ourselves restored indirectly to the new reality of where the company wanted to be all along.

Many of us knew in mid-March that you can’t just ‘turn it off and back on again’... that the old way of doing many things just wouldn’t make business or practical sense in the modern era, even outside of the unique demands of Covid. The magnitude of difference between 2019 and 2022 WDW is a story yet to be written and I’m sure one that will feature dramatic twists and turns. Likely there will be some strong positives alongside the negatives, but I think a reality is that major change - reworking, and reimagining - is inevitable. In many ways, ‘you can’t go home again‘ from a situation like this, and now the challenge for Disney is to make some magic out of the opportunity. There’s enormous potential to get some critical things right, finally... along with enormous risk that they can’t find that all-important spark in quite the same way again.
 

Disorbust

Well-Known Member
Covid will be the excuse for Disney to do the changes they have wanted to do for years.

The Park reservation system will not go away IMHO. Crowding at MK was always an issue. Post Covid it will give them a way to limit MK crowds and "push" you to another park during your visit. Park hopping allowed to certain parks only based on reservations for the day.
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
Perhaps a better display would be a Cinderella's Castle made from canned good, baked breads, boxed cereals and vouchers for milk and eggs -- which would then be broken down every weekend and distributed to the CMs still on furlough.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
I’m suprised to see so much pushback, I happen to agree with you. No shows have been announced and equity settled nearly a month ago. They bemoan not hitting their attendance numbers but have done nothing to entice visitors. With Florida numbers decreasing, if that continues, come Christmas they are going to look terrible closing parks at 6, not allowing hopping, requiring reservations and having no entertainment. It will be interesting to see what Sea World and Universal do, I bet Sea World still has their ice skating show and Christmas tree display, I wonder if Universal does their Ginchmas and Potter projection show?

At some point the company will need to entice people to actually visit again, and their are only two things that will, give them more to do or discount the cost.

Until then, the beatings will continue until moral improves.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
They need to be cheap until attendance and spending returns to a respectable level.
That’s likely overstated.

If they NEEDED to throw open the gates to make money...they would have (at least in Florida) by now.

It is not about the 2020 money.
Most of that is to keep people from congregating. Literally the only choice that I think is cheap is the cancelation of the Dream Lights.

There will be “snow” at DS...

We are lucky they’re decorating.
Agree...their tactics are part of their “recovery plan”...which is also secondary to their liability assessment.
Chicken and egg, though. Attendance and guest spending would likely be higher if Disney was offering more for guests to do. I just cannot fathom going when the park closes at 6 p.m. each day, for example. I would imagine the Christmas party would have brought a lot of people in.
Logistics and damage mitigation is likely the culprits
Why is it that diehard Disney fans (and I consider myself one) cannot criticize this company even when it is blatantly obvious what is going on? If this is the case....Disney should not be open
...because of the “Oath” 😉
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Cheap is one thing....the company is now using COVID to explain away everything theyre doing. They are not cutting costs of admission or hotels....some of these cuts shouldn't be happening
It’s just what they’ve determined to be in their best strategic interests.

Low overhead
Reduction of enployees
Holding their price point (Iger has been doing that to you for 15 years...where ya been?)
Protecting themselves from bad PR with a deliberately slow opening approach.
And frankly - bad public control in California and Florida.

This thread is an “off the rails from the start” sort. It arrived packed with dynamite and a blowtorch...
But asking why they aren’t doing more for their customers? has a very simple solution...

Consumer maturity/responsibility

A collective stand on price vs value is the only thing that knocks the knees out from the Dwarf Boardroom...ever. Wait...recessions too...

...see where I’m going here?

Otherwise...everyone enjoy the sandbox and share your pails and shovels 👍🏻
 
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rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
No Christmas party, no snow, no Castle Lights, no Gingerbread houses at resorts....at what point does this not become about COVID and limiting crowds and about Disney becoming extremely cheap in everything that they do. Yes, precautions need to be taken, but its starting not to be about precautions. It's Disney beginning to use this as an excuse to cut every dollar imaginable. Its so sad....I love this place like home and it's turning into a penny pinching monster.
I don't think eliminating the parties is cheap; it's really the opposite. They get "double admission" on those days. They're giving that up. It also seems unlikely they'd be able to provide many of the features of the parties anyway - shows, fireworks, parade. So they'd be charging guests for what exactly?

They're still providing a solid amount of Christmas stuff. At MK they're providing the decorations, mini-Christmas parades, and castle projections. Regular guests normally only get the decorations. They're still decorating the resorts; just not building gingerbread houses. You're getting snow, just not at MK (I'm not certain, but I don't think regular guests got that anyway).
 

Gillyanne

Well-Known Member
The gingerbread starts being baked and assembled around about now, or a few weeks ago even. The staff involved are likely either still on furlough or working in food & beverage in one of the restaurants.

This; I remember the holiday special a few years ago they mentioned how it took about 6 months for the gingerbread houses. I just found the video on line (posted below to the gingerbread part). It says they started making the dough in June and baking it in Aug, so they would've needed to start when they were still closed/furloughed, and are that far behind. Plus all the flour, sugar etc they need, could be in shorter supply (I remember shortages b/c everyone was baking at home). Plus as Nickys mentioned, many are probably still furloughed or placed elsewhere.

 

Maccabee18

Active Member
then they shouldn't be charging $600 a night for the room...if prices were reduced Id agree

Thats the amazing thing about free markets and supply/demand. They can charge what they have been charging because there is demand for people to still pay for it. When the demand stops they will determine next cases. This is why not every hotel has been brought back online.

Ultimately Disney has the right to choose what they want to provide or not, and you have the right to choose what to pay or not. No amount of whinging is going to change anything so stop being such an Eeyore.
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
Thats the amazing thing about free markets and supply/demand. They can charge what they have been charging because there is demand for people to still pay for it. When the demand stops they will determine next cases. This is why not every hotel has been brought back online.

Ultimately Disney has the right to choose what they want to provide or not, and you have the right to choose what to pay or not. No amount of whinging is going to change anything so stop being such an Eeyore.
If the cost to benefit ratio is so diminished that the price of staying on property has lost its value would it be less costly and more beneficial to stay off property?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Covid will be the excuse for Disney to do the changes they have wanted to do for years.

The Park reservation system will not go away IMHO. Crowding at MK was always an issue. Post Covid it will give them a way to limit MK crowds and "push" you to another park during your visit. Park hopping allowed to certain parks only based on reservations for the day.
It's legitimate to worry that cuts made in hard times will not return when times are good again (though I don't find it useful in my mind to pre-worry about something like that). It's delusional to not acknowledge that these are hard times that require hard decisions.
Pricing under the Iger Dynasty has rolled out like Avengers movies (everything has to be IP based 😂)

...each move has been very calculated it you’ve watched. Most at least 50% to “recenter expectations” that allows them to near arbitrarily set their price points.
Very calculated...respectable...but not pro-consumer.

This is an unplanned event that they had 3 months to crunch before a gate was opened. That’s what the important people - the real “Insiders” - we’re doing.

Not worrying about the Epcot hub or fogging mickeys runway railway before the next riders.

That’s how this management operates. They don’t throw out discounts to “react”...quite the opposite. Analyze for potential future gains or savings and then test their markets resolve.

They’re smart...we - the people - have proven not to be.

I bet they win here too.
If the cost to benefit ratio is so diminished that the price of staying on property has lost its value would it be less costly and more beneficial to stay off property?
The consumers have to be willing to make that assessment. And they have frankly acted like fools for 10 years.

It’s what I call “responsible consumerism”

Oh well...no sense digging up those bones again.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Was just thinking about this myself. The way Disney is operating currently is merely an amusement park, not as a theme park worth charging well over $100 per day for tickets. My fear is that when life returns to normal, Disney will be too cheap to fully restore the cuts they made. Even before Covid, cuts were made that diminished the value of a Disney vacation, especially for on-site guests. I thought the shortening of park hours and reduction of Extra Magic Hours was already going overboard the last couple of years prior to Covid. What’s happening now is utterly ridiculous.
Nah. Nostalgia is big for Disney. People WANT to travel and Disney is a favorite destination. People need to be able to afford it (look at unemployment) and feel safe (vaccine). So Disney must maintain its financial standing until such a time. They DO care about the guests still visiting, which is why they are still celebrating the holidays.

I will say this, when my family went last month, we thought we got tremendous value due to the short lines and lack of necessary planning due to Fastpass being gone. My wife said it was the most relaxing WDW vacation she’s ever been on. We literally swam at the pool one morning before leisurely walking into Epcot at 11 am to walk onto Test Track then Frozen then Soarin by noon. It. Was. Lovely. Then we ate and ate and ate at Food and Wine. And those cavalcades were really cute. We preferred them over traffic-snarling parades or tedious Meet & Greets, but that is just us. Is it for everyone? Of course not. Plenty of people love the stuff that is missing. They should wait. But, we had a great time and it was clear Disney was paying a FORTUNE to keep the parks open and safe. So I understand the lack of a gingerbread house. When you see a ride like Splash Mountain using as many CMs as it would use on NYE to put far fewer guests on or when you see buses run like the parks are slammed even though each bus only has 2 or 3 groups (but groups are not being allowed to build at bus stops to meet social distancing guidelines), you realize Disney is doing an incredible job trying to maintain the magic. But, yes, they simply will not pay for the usual Christmas entertainment package. No rational person would expect them to. I expect them to keep the parks safe, run everyone’s favorite attractions, and sprinkle in some holiday magic to remind November and December guests that Disney appreciates them visiting during the holidays.

I agree with you...I don’t like it...but I agree

I never would assume that the masses that go to wdw will make a collective choice regarding the value of what they’re buying. It’s all hype and they are easily divided and conquered
Actors equity settled, no performer, tech or management roles for those back yet that were cut from that ordeal. That alone tells you.
That unions have little power and near none in Florida?
Think of Disney as a third world country full of cheap labor. The hurricane came in and it will be years till things get back on track if ever?

Don’t know if I agree...but a very intriguing and accurate metaphor 🤔
I think its ok to open WDW if it's being done safely, it's the publics choice to attend. I would rather Disney make cutbacks to try and recover financially so the parks will exist for many years to come rather than go all out to please visitors who want to visit a park during a pandemic.
That’s not a choice they’re making.

They know they’re not getting that lost money back...it’s written off. Disney is pretty much “too big to fail”

The steps they’re on now is to see How they can make more coming out of it...and that’s why you should be worried
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
But is there really a pandemic anymore? I'm pretty sure covid doesn't fit tat bill for the last month or two or more. It's past time to move on from this, for individuals and for businesses. At this point, I think a person would be about as safe from getting an illness at Disney World right now without wearing a mask, as you would have been a year ago. It's time for us to man up, put on our big boy pants, and put the virus hysteria behind us. We used to know that when we went places there was always a risk of sickness or accident but most of us were willing to take the risk. We've become a country full of cry babies who are terrified to get a cold or the flu.
Wow lol
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
But is there really a pandemic anymore? I'm pretty sure covid doesn't fit tat bill for the last month or two or more. It's past time to move on from this, for individuals and for businesses. At this point, I think a person would be about as safe from getting an illness at Disney World right now without wearing a mask, as you would have been a year ago. It's time for us to man up, put on our big boy pants, and put the virus hysteria behind us. We used to know that when we went places there was always a risk of sickness or accident but most of us were willing to take the risk. We've become a country full of cry babies who are terrified to get a cold or the flu.
Well that’s all wrong...because it doesn’t address the problem with perception and travel...nor does it address the quarantine rules and/or border restrictions.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
But is there really a pandemic anymore? I'm pretty sure covid doesn't fit tat bill for the last month or two or more. It's past time to move on from this, for individuals and for businesses. At this point, I think a person would be about as safe from getting an illness at Disney World right now without wearing a mask, as you would have been a year ago. It's time for us to man up, put on our big boy pants, and put the virus hysteria behind us. We used to know that when we went places there was always a risk of sickness or accident but most of us were willing to take the risk. We've become a country full of cry babies who are terrified to get a cold or the flu.
Scientists and people who actually understand pandemics would probably beg to differ.
 

Archie123

Well-Known Member
But is there really a pandemic anymore? I'm pretty sure covid doesn't fit tat bill for the last month or two or more. It's past time to move on from this, for individuals and for businesses. At this point, I think a person would be about as safe from getting an illness at Disney World right now without wearing a mask, as you would have been a year ago. It's time for us to man up, put on our big boy pants, and put the virus hysteria behind us. We used to know that when we went places there was always a risk of sickness or accident but most of us were willing to take the risk. We've become a country full of cry babies who are terrified to get a cold or the flu.

Lol. You obviously are a clueless little fella aren't ya.
 

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