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What's with the wait times!? (hint.. they're low)

JD2000

Well-Known Member
Actually I double checked. I didn't read wrong.
I don’t understand. Are you looking at the individual dates under the calendar? Do they show different numbers somewhere else? As the last six days were: 6/6, 7/7, 1/1, 2/3, 5/5, 5/4.
I see what you did now. You looked at both parks combined. But even then, it is within the normal margin of error, and last year was even less crowded (then expected). It is quite safe to claim everything is back to normal for recent summers. Nobody can really argue otherwise. And this discussion among everyone can probably die now.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
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Except a brand new themed area should have caused a spike in attendance...

But then again you can spin it as even with blocking deluxe and below from DL all summer, DL has managed to keep crowds at the same level.

I have no doubt Disney May view June as a disaster internally, but July is likely to fall into the mild disappointment range.
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
I don’t understand. Are you looking at the individual dates under the calendar? Do they show different numbers somewhere else? As the last six days were: 6/6, 7/7, 1/1, 2/3, 5/5, 5/4.
I think you might be looking at just the Disneyland Park numbers. I usually go by the overall resort numbers.
 

JD2000

Well-Known Member
There's another meeting today to find more cuts in employee hours for the remainder of the summer. Attendance is down again today.
Do you mean attendance has not met higher than normal expectations? Because crowds and wait times have been normal for over a week now. And to cut employee hours does not make sense.
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
I see what you did now. You looked at both parks combined. But even then, it is within the normal margin of error, and last year was even less crowded (then expected). It is quite safe to claim everything is back to normal for recent summers. Nobody can really argue otherwise. And this discussion among everyone can probably die now.
Was Disneyland planning and budgeting for "normal" crowds this summer? They had to offer some of the biggest discounts we've seen in years just to get back to average.

I'm not so sure this discussion is dead yet.
 

JD2000

Well-Known Member
Was Disneyland planning and budgeting for "normal" crowds this summer? They had to offer some of the biggest discounts we've seen in years just to get back to average.

I'm not so sure this discussion is dead yet.
I agree. But the discussion’s title is misleading now. I suppose there is nothing we can do about that.
 

Nirya

Active Member
Except a brand new themed area should have caused a spike in attendance...

But then again you can spin it as even with blocking deluxe and below from DL all summer, DL has managed to keep crowds at the same level.

I have no doubt Disney May view June as a disaster internally, but July is likely to fall into the mild disappointment range.
It feels pretty obvious what is happening if you look at attendance numbers over the past few summers.

Disney has essentially reached a break point on non-AP tickets. By that, I don’t mean that people aren’t buying single-day tickets anymore, but enough people are choosing to stay away because of multiple factors that it’s not compensating for the blackouts for a vast majority of the APs. And the main factors are price point (it’s too expensive) and crowd expectations (it’s too crowded).

The solution is honestly simple, but it’s more of a “short term pain, long term gain” thing that Disney doesn’t go for anymore. They need to combine a price drop on single-days with an increase in AP costs. You’d drive in more single-days this way (the rise in SoCal discounts in the Spring speaks to an idea that Disney wants this) while you wouldn’t lose too much in profit from a lower AP rate (if the rate even drops, as the payment plans help to offset the costs).
 

SirWillow

Well-Known Member
It feels pretty obvious what is happening if you look at attendance numbers over the past few summers.

Disney has essentially reached a break point on non-AP tickets. By that, I don’t mean that people aren’t buying single-day tickets anymore, but enough people are choosing to stay away because of multiple factors that it’s not compensating for the blackouts for a vast majority of the APs. And the main factors are price point (it’s too expensive) and crowd expectations (it’s too crowded).
^This. The pattern has been developing the last few summers already, with many calling the last couple of summers the "off season" now because of how quiet it was. Combine that with a very large price hike and expensive tickets, and then the overyhype of what the expected crowds were going to be, and then the AP's being blocked, and no one wants to pay a steep price to deal with huge crowds.

I'm still thinking once the tickets drop to the lower price tiers for being "out of season" and the AP's aren't blocked that the crowds will be taking a pretty good jump.
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
It feels pretty obvious what is happening if you look at attendance numbers over the past few summers.

Disney has essentially reached a break point on non-AP tickets. By that, I don’t mean that people aren’t buying single-day tickets anymore, but enough people are choosing to stay away because of multiple factors that it’s not compensating for the blackouts for a vast majority of the APs. And the main factors are price point (it’s too expensive) and crowd expectations (it’s too crowded).

The solution is honestly simple, but it’s more of a “short term pain, long term gain” thing that Disney doesn’t go for anymore. They need to combine a price drop on single-days with an increase in AP costs. You’d drive in more single-days this way (the rise in SoCal discounts in the Spring speaks to an idea that Disney wants this) while you wouldn’t lose too much in profit from a lower AP rate (if the rate even drops, as the payment plans help to offset the costs).
If we assume that this month's rebound in attendance is being driven by the AP park hopper discount, it's more evidence to back this idea up.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
It feels pretty obvious what is happening if you look at attendance numbers over the past few summers.

Disney has essentially reached a break point on non-AP tickets. By that, I don’t mean that people aren’t buying single-day tickets anymore, but enough people are choosing to stay away because of multiple factors that it’s not compensating for the blackouts for a vast majority of the APs. And the main factors are price point (it’s too expensive) and crowd expectations (it’s too crowded).

The solution is honestly simple, but it’s more of a “short term pain, long term gain” thing that Disney doesn’t go for anymore. They need to combine a price drop on single-days with an increase in AP costs. You’d drive in more single-days this way (the rise in SoCal discounts in the Spring speaks to an idea that Disney wants this) while you wouldn’t lose too much in profit from a lower AP rate (if the rate even drops, as the payment plans help to offset the costs).
I’ve been saying this forever. I’d most likely never be an AP if the single day price wasn’t so high 5 years ago. That’s not what they want though. In fact they ve have strategically priced tickets this way to bait people to upgrade to APs.
 

Nirya

Active Member
I’ve been saying this forever. I’d most likely never be an AP if the single day price wasn’t so high 5 years ago. That’s not what they want though. In fact they ve have strategically priced tickets this way to bait people to upgrade to APs.
I feel this is a thing we’ve all been pointing out for years (since I know we both were at another forum before this). The only difference is this summer has SWL, which has led to a lot of (in my opinion bad) analysis blaming that for the low crowds. All SWL has really done is being these issues to the forefront.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
The Orange County Fair starts its month long run on Friday. Disneyland has one more full day before the locals living in and around OC leave Disneyland to the tourists and head to the fair. This year's fair theme is "Acres of Fun!", which sounds better than this year's Disneyland theme that backfired on them; "Don't Show Up Without A Reservation!" :oops:

Current wait times mid-afternoon today;

Jungle Cruise, Pirates, Small World - 10 Minutes
Haunted Mansion - 15 Minutes
Star Tours, Soarin' Over California, Incredicoaster - 25 Minutes
Guardians of the Galaxy, Indiana Jones Adventure, Submarines - 30 Minutes
Millennium Falcon: Target Run - 40 Minutes
Matterhorn Bobsleds, Grizzly River Run - 50 Minutes
Hyperspace Mountain, Splash Mountain - 65 Minutes
Radiator Racers - 70 Minutes


Last year's Orange County Fair hit a record attendance of 1.47 Million visitors during its four week run, after years of steadily rising attendance. The Fair will likely head over the 1.5 Million attendance mark this year, quite easily. In comparison, the LA County Fair had '18 attendance of 1.2 Million, the Texas State Fair (one of the greatest State Fairs in the nation) had '18 attendance of 2.2 Million, while the California State Fair up in Sacramento has seen its attendance steadily drop over the years to just 575,000 visitors last year. The Oregon State Fair had '18 attendance of just 285,000, in a geographically very large state that has a population of 4.2 Million. It's very rare for a mere County Fair to host more than 1 Million visitors, let alone 1.5 Million.

In short, the Orange County Fair is a really big deal around these parts, and always drains away the local demand for Disneyland. Tourists, the Millennium Falcon ride is all yours starting on Friday!
 
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Touchdown

Well-Known Member
I also think they overestimated the reach of a new land. Cars Land being unique got a lot of people east of the Mississippi to go west as WDW didn’t have it. SWGE is opening at DHS less then 3 months after DL.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I feel this is a thing we’ve all been pointing out for years (since I know we both were at another forum before this). The only difference is this summer has SWL, which has led to a lot of (in my opinion bad) analysis blaming that for the low crowds. All SWL has really done is being these issues to the forefront.
I see your point but still think if SWL in its current iteration was a MUST SEE it would be more crowded. Put a Star Wars version of Hagrids coaster in SWL and tell me the place is is still empty? No way

Well get a better few after ROTR opens up and the hype settles.
 

SirWillow

Well-Known Member
The Orange County Fair starts its month long run on Friday. Disneyland has one more full day before the locals living in and around OC leave Disneyland to the tourists and head to the fair. This year's fair theme is "Acres of Fun!", which sounds better than this year's Disneyland theme that backfired on them; "Don't Show Up Without A Reservation!" :oops:

Last year's Orange County Fair hit a record attendance of 1.47 Million visitors during its four week run, after years of steadily rising attendance. The Fair will likely head over the 1.5 Million attendance mark this year, quite easily. In comparison, the LA County Fair had '18 attendance of 1.2 Million, the Texas State Fair (one of the greatest State Fairs in the nation) had '18 attendance of 2.2 Million, while the California State Fair up in Sacramento has seen its attendance steadily drop over the years to just 575,000 visitors last year. The Oregon State Fair had '18 attendance of just 285,000, in a geographically very large state that has a population of 4.2 Million. It's very rare for a mere County Fair to host more than 1 Million visitors, let alone 1.5 Million.

In short, the Orange County Fair is a really big deal around these parts, and always drains away the local demand for Disneyland. Tourists, the Millennium Falcon ride is all yours starting on Friday!
In fairness to Sacramento, it doesn't have anywhere near the population base or the size of the facilities that the other fairs you mention have. I've been blessed to have been able to be at all of them at some point. Texas has easily the best fair I've ever been to but Orange County and LA fairs are also fantastic- they'd be the number 2 and 3, beating Arizona, several in Florida, anything in Missouri and several others I've been to all over California.

And yes, they'll pull more locals away from Disneyland again. But I don't know how much that will impact where the attendance is now, or even how much it's impacted Disneyland in the past. I'd be curious to know what those numbers are.

Disneyland could help themselves a lot though by making it better known that you don't need a reservation to get in the park, which a lot of their advertising pre-SWGE opening seemed to imply. Which I think scared a lot of people away. It should be interesting to see how that compares to Florida which is opening here soon and isnt' talking about reservations at all.
 
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