What's the outlook on Frontierland?

[KeithVH]

Rumor is they want to convert frontierland to zootopia. BTMRR will be converted to Judy Hopps' wildest police chases adventure.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Was talking with my kids the other day (all girls). Saw an article on Fess Parker's Palm Spring home for sale (wow!) and got us chatting about certain things. While they truly liked all the parts of the park, Frontierland was their least favorite. Just because many of the offerings have not been girly-girl focused. Nothing negative, just little appeal or connection to their interests.

And on that note, I then have to ask - how long before Frontierland, especially the "frontier" aspect goes away? With IP updates and changes, and cultural interests waxing and waning, not to mention the current mishmash of theming between Liberty Square and BTMRR, does anyone know what long-term plans TDO has for this Land? Technically, this applies to DL too, especially since they still have the formal gate entrance (but little else of frontier focus).

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be overly negative with this post, but unfortunately it comes across that way. I can't find a softer way to make my point.

Why does an entire land of MK need to change because "girly girls" don't like it? Why do offerings in that land need to be girly girl focused? Cinderella's castle and much of Fantasyland is too girly IMO, but I would never suggest that Disney make it more boy-friendly. I just don't see many boys wanting to spend much time in princess land... or at all really. They prefer to spend time in other lands of MK. Same solution works for all lands certain people don't like. If it doesn't appeal to you, spend more time elsewhere.

If someone from the UK comes to WDW and Liberty Square doesn't appeal to them because it represents a time of American history where people were disloyal to the crown, does that mean that it should be changed out to something they'd find more to their liking? That just comes across as a very selfish view of the world.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Maybe it is just an observation that many of the "Lands" seem to already lack much of what is supposed to be present to earn the "Land" its own name. How much (fill in the blank) is found in (same fill in)Land? FrontierLand is a poor scapegoat for this argument. And "girlie-girl", really, is that what most guests want?

 

[JoeCamel]

If you were born in 1990, you're of an age to have kids to take to Disney World. That and you wouldn't have been raised on Westerns. Not saying that younger people would find Frontierland offensive, they just wouldn't have the same nostalgic reaction. It doesn't have meaning to them.

I suppose you want CoP updated or removed too?
Walt had input in what is in the parks, it was a formula that worked and worked well. Fantasyland was mostly princess and Mainstreet/whatever square and Frontierland was for the boys. Tomorrowland was for dreamers. That is why it is there and one of the reasons the parks have been successful.
I'm not advocating for it to remain the same as it is dated and quaint but people still "must do" Pan and Toad was a huge loss to most. Some like old and dated some want something new and shiny on their twice a year visits to the land of DVC for 40 years. No excuse for not expanding but you don't have to lose what came before to have new and shiny.

 

[kingdead]

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be overly negative with this post, but unfortunately it comes across that way. I can't find a softer way to make my point.

Why does an entire land of MK need to change because "girly girls" don't like it? Why do offerings in that land need to be girly girl focused? Cinderella's castle and much of Fantasyland is too girly IMO, but I would never suggest that Disney make it more boy-friendly. I just don't see many boys wanting to spend much time in princess land... or at all really. They prefer to spend time in other lands of MK. Same solution works for all lands certain people don't like. If it doesn't appeal to you, spend more time elsewhere.

If someone from the UK comes to WDW and Liberty Square doesn't appeal to them because it represents a time of American history where people were disloyal to the crown, does that mean that it should be changed out to something they'd find more to their liking? That just comes across as a very selfish view of the world.

I'm betting it's cash--there's a huge market for princess-themed merchandise and experiences. Girls want to see Elsa, Moana, Mirabel, and all the rest and they can only get that at a Disney park.

Can't think of an equivalent Disney-only experience for the less "girly" crowd. Maybe Star Wars but that existed and had its rabid little boy fans pre-Disney...

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I'm betting it's cash--there's a huge market for princess-themed merchandise and experiences. Girls want to see Elsa, Moana, Mirabel, and all the rest and they can only get that at a Disney park.

Can't think of an equivalent Disney-only experience for the less "girly" crowd. Maybe Star Wars but that existed and had its rabid little boy fans pre-Disney...

I don't follow. To my knowledge I don't think Disney is considering making Frontierland more "girly". It's the OP here who says it doesn't appeal to his daughters, so he was inquiring about potential future changes to turn Frontierland into an area with more of a focus to make his girls happy. I know this probably makes it sound like I'm misogynistic. Not in the least. I just don't understand the need to cater every corner of the park towards girls which essentially does the opposite for boys. What boy is going to want to go to a park that has girl-focused everything at every turn. I'm guessing maybe 15%, but the same percentage of girls feel the same way about boys stuff. Even in adulthood, when you walk through the women's section of a department store, you see guys, but they're almost always bored out of their skulls sitting in a chair waiting for his significant other to finish trying on her 27th outfit. I know because I've been that guy on occasion, and when I see another guy in the same situation, you give each other the head nod and then roll your eyes to each other with a chuckle.

I could be wrong, but I think that Disney is at least somewhat aware that you can't go over the top in one direction or the other. You have to cater to families which quite often have girls AND boys. If you sway it too far one direction or the other, you risk splitting a family's desire to go. If your son has no interest to go to Disney because it's too girly, then the entire family might not go, or might possibly go for their last time because their son is complaining the entire trip. That's a lot of money to spend to torture your son, who then complains and annoys the rest of your family.

 

[kingdead]

I don't follow. To my knowledge I don't think Disney is considering making Frontierland more "girly". It's the OP here who says it doesn't appeal to his daughters, so he was inquiring about potential future changes to turn Frontierland into an area with more of a focus to make his girls happy. I know this probably makes it sound like I'm misogynistic. Not in the least. I just don't understand the need to cater every corner of the park towards girls which essentially does the opposite for boys. What boy is going to want to go to a park that has girl-focused everything at every turn. I'm guessing maybe 15%, but the same percentage of girls feel the same way about boys stuff. Even in adulthood, when you walk through the women's section of a department store, you see guys, but they're almost always bored out of their skulls sitting in a chair waiting for his significant other to finish trying on her 27th outfit. I know because I've been that guy on occasion, and when I see another guy in the same situation, you give each other the head nod and then roll your eyes to each other with a chuckle.

I could be wrong, but I think that Disney is at least somewhat aware that you can't go over the top in one direction or the other. You have to cater to families which quite often have girls AND boys. If you sway it too far one direction or the other, you risk splitting a family's desire to go. If your son has no interest to go to Disney because it's too girly, then the entire family might not go, or might possibly go for their last time because their son is complaining the entire trip. That's a lot of money to spend to torture your son, who then complains and annoys the rest of your family.

Oh yeah, I get what you're saying--now that I think about it, it's less that Frontierland appeals to little boys than that it appeals to little boys in a way that's difficult to monetize. Little boys (and girls!) can have a great time there but there's nothing there that they HAVE to buy, and Disney makes its money off merchandise. Compare to the princess experiences or to something like the droid building in Star Wars land, where there's huge margins to be made. Kids aren't exactly clamoring for coonskin caps nowadays...

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Oh yeah, I get what you're saying--now that I think about it, it's less that Frontierland appeals to little boys than that it appeals to little boys in a way that's difficult to monetize. Little boys (and girls!) can have a great time there but there's nothing there that they HAVE to buy, and Disney makes its money off merchandise. Compare to the princess experiences or to something like the droid building in Star Wars land, where there's huge margins to be made. Kids aren't exactly clamoring for coonskin caps nowadays...

SHHHHHH! Please don't give them more ideas on how to change stuff many people like in order to make more money. I think that's all 95% of Disney execs already think about. They don't need fans suggesting it too.

 

[KeithVH]

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be overly negative with this post, but unfortunately it comes across that way. I can't find a softer way to make my point.

Why does an entire land of MK need to change because "girly girls" don't like it? Why do offerings in that land need to be girly girl focused? Cinderella's castle and much of Fantasyland is too girly IMO, but I would never suggest that Disney make it more boy-friendly. I just don't see many boys wanting to spend much time in princess land... or at all really. They prefer to spend time in other lands of MK. Same solution works for all lands certain people don't like. If it doesn't appeal to you, spend more time elsewhere.

If someone from the UK comes to WDW and Liberty Square doesn't appeal to them because it represents a time of American history where people were disloyal to the crown, does that mean that it should be changed out to something they'd find more to their liking? That just comes across as a very selfish view of the world.

I wondered if I wasn't clear in my first post. I get what you're saying but please don't get me wrong, I'm not upset (nor were my kids) that Frontierland WASN'T THEIR FAVORITE. That statement does NOT equal "did not like" (much as some people seem to want to interpret it that way). More like just ranked farther down the appreciation list. I've never said (nor implied) the land needs to be redone to appeal to more feminine tastes.

My point is that, if you're going to have a whole land designated as "Frontier", you better darn well theme the whole land that way, not just one or two little spots and then throw in limited theming of other time periods in the same location.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I wondered if I wasn't clear in my first post. I get what you're saying but please don't get me wrong, I'm not upset (nor were my kids) that Frontierland WASN'T THEIR FAVORITE. That statement does NOT equal "did not like" (much as some people seem to want to interpret it that way). More like just ranked farther down the appreciation list. I've never said (nor implied) the land needs to be redone to appeal to more feminine tastes.

My point is that, if you're going to have a whole land designated as "Frontier", you better darn well theme the whole land that way, not just one or two little spots and then throw in limited theming of other time periods in the same location.

Sorry. I sincerely must've read it wrong, and extrapolated your meaning incorrectly. I don't want to take the wording out of context, but this is the part I saw that made me interpret it that way...
"While they truly liked all the parts of the park, Frontierland was their least favorite. Just because many of the offerings have not been girly-girl focused."

Those phrases made it sound like since it was their least favorite because it wasn't "girly-girl" enough, that you wondering how it could be changed, simply based on the title of this thread. Sorry if I took the wrong meaning though. I don't want to put words in your mouth. I hope you're impressed though with my use of the word "extrapolated". I think I used it correctly... probably not though.

 

[Willmark]

OP asks “what’s the outlook for Frontierland?”

Answer: on borrowed time.

 

[NickMaio]

Was talking with my kids the other day (all girls). Saw an article on Fess Parker's Palm Spring home for sale (wow!) and got us chatting about certain things. While they truly liked all the parts of the park, Frontierland was their least favorite. Just because many of the offerings have not been girly-girl focused. Nothing negative, just little appeal or connection to their interests.

And on that note, I then have to ask - how long before Frontierland, especially the "frontier" aspect goes away? With IP updates and changes, and cultural interests waxing and waning, not to mention the current mishmash of theming between Liberty Square and BTMRR, does anyone know what long-term plans TDO has for this Land? Technically, this applies to DL too, especially since they still have the formal gate entrance (but little else of frontier focus).

After Tron it will be cickets for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

 

[mysto]

Since I have little girls Disney must cater to little girls at the expense of anyone else.

 

[FutureCEO]

I find the Hall of Presidents offensive.

Why do you ask?

Lack of reclining chairs.

but in answer to the question....Frontierland only has one ride now. And the Princess and the Frog is not really the wild west so yes...only a matter of time. (which in Disney speak is like a half a century)

 

[Midwest Elitist]

The younger people's birthdates are, the more likely you'll get dumb ideas about how to "modernize" Frontierland. Basically you have people making decisions now - or influencing them within the company - that were born from 1990 onwards. This is likely only to get worse as time goes on. Because that era generally doesn't "get" Frontierland or why it is what it is. This is the same crowd that toiled with Splash Mountain. What they don't get is that Frontierland is supposed to have that blast from the past feel. It isn't supposed to be specifically targeted to girls.

You're casting a wide net. Not all of us Younger millennials / Z-ers are unappreciative of the Frontierland aesthetic. Many were upset over Splash.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

You're casting a wide net. Not all of us Younger millennials / Z-ers are unappreciative of the Frontierland aesthetic. Many were upset over Splash.

That's good to know that there are some younger fans that still appreciate it.

 

[The Lochness Monsta]

They are going to totally ruin Frontierland, one of my favorite lands. By putting in 1920's New Orleans in a 1800's area.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

They are going to totally ruin Frontierland, one of my favorite lands. By putting in 1920's New Orleans in a 1800's area.

I don't think Disney is going to recreate DL in the MK. I think the whole point was to have the two be different destinations that would entice people to both parks, not one or the other. There'd be no positive gain to turn MK into DL with New Orleans, etc.

My guess is that Frontierland, if it survives at all, will become a crappy cartoonish version of itself with no cohesion. That seems to be the direction Disney is taking in all aspects. More IP... less cohesion. Look at what they've done to the World Showcase at EPCOT. Introducing IPs in each of the lands seems to be the goal, whether they make sense or not. In most cases it's forced to try to make sense.

 

[Willmark]

I don't think Disney is going to recreate DL in the MK. I think the whole point was to have the two be different destinations that would entice people to both parks, not one or the other. There'd be no positive gain to turn MK into DL with New Orleans, etc.

My guess is that Frontierland, if it survives at all, will become a crappy cartoonish version of itself with no cohesion. That seems to be the direction Disney is taking in all aspects. More IP... less cohesion. Look at what they've done to the World Showcase at EPCOT. Introducing IPs in each of the lands seems to be the goal, whether they make sense or not. In most cases it's forced to try to make sense.

I don’t think it’s going to be even that, you’re right on the IP but I suspect Frontierland is on the list to be fully removed/replaced.

Frontierland is on borrowed time. Once they are done with the Splash Mountain revamp the mouse is going to remove anything related to Frontierland (as a guess). If for no other reason that tying it into IP to whatever replaces it.

 

[Rush]

They are going to totally ruin Frontierland, one of my favorite lands. By putting in 1920's New Orleans in a 1800's area.

As if Frontierland wasn't already a thematic hodgepodge with a mish-mash of aesthetics from different regions and periods...

Edit; I'm also certain Tiana's Bayou Adventure will be sectioned off to be it's own little New Orleanse themed corner.