What's going on with Epcot Future World?

[Horizonsfan]

As RSoxNo1 was saying before,if Imagination 1.0 was still around now,we'd look at it like Splash Mountain where it needs major updates here and there and the result would not end well.

Splash Mountain is bemoaned because its maintenance is so ________ poor, not because it needs updating. I think a more apt comparison for Imagination 1.0 would be Space Mountain or even the Peoplemover, it needed slight color scheme changes, minor effect alterations, and film updating.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Splash Mountain is bemoaned because its maintenance is so ________ poor, not because it needs updating. I think a more apt comparison for Imagination 1.0 would be Space Mountain or even the Peoplemover, it needed slight color scheme changes, minor effect alterations, and film updating.

Came to post that. When people talk about Splash Mountain needing a refurb, they don't mean a gutting and reimagining. Splash Mountain WDW isn't trashed by the fan community because it's a stale ride, far from it. It's bad mouthed because it's literally falling apart. It's in desperate need for maintenance.

In my opinion, Splash is a "perfect ride" to me when in full "show-ready" mode. It's a toss up between WDW's Splash Mountain (when in top shape) and Paris' Pirates of the Caribbean for my top two favorite rides of all time. The problem is that a large quantity of the characters and effects in the ride are broken or only partially working. When everything works as originally intended when the ride was first built, the huge majority of people agree that the ride is incredible and that there's nothing the ride really needs. It's a brilliant attraction when working properly. In my humble opinion, the ride holds up amazingly well for a nearly 20 year old attraction. Though again stressing, when it's show-ready and everything works. I can't even think of anything i'd change in terms of imagineering.

The original Imagination 1.0 is in a similar field for me. To me, it was a very solid contender for best children's fantasy dark ride of all time (not including rides like Horizons, WoM, or SSE). And it had a timeless feel to it that didn't rely too heavily on technology of the 80's that would later be outdated (with the exception of maybe a couple of elements). Its name certainly indicated what you were in for too. Some of the effects could have used some minor updating here and there, but i'll never feel it needed any sort of gutting and "re-imagining". I'd much rather it had forever remained in its original form than what they did to it. The funny thing is that the current rendition of the ride is horrible whether you compare it to the original or never even knew there was another version. It's terrible even when taken as a standalone ride.

I have nothing against major refurbs as long as what they replace it with is superior to the original. The Jeremy Irons SSE is one of the few examples i can think of that truly improved on the original logically in every way. The Disneyland Fantasyland redesign of the 80's was probably another, i hear they redid the rides respectfully during that time. But it's far too easy to rip out the heart and soul of the original attraction for the sake of being temporarily hip to a certain time period or getting a cheap and quick thrill. It's very rarely i've seen a ride truly improved in a massive refurb or reimagining. It can be done, but it's rare and apparently difficult for the current imagineering department. Or in Imagination's case, it's just due to cost reasons or some garbage...

 

[aladdin2007]

Came to post that. When people talk about Splash Mountain needing a refurb, they don't mean a gutting and reimagining. Splash Mountain WDW isn't trashed by the fan community because it's a stale ride, far from it. It's bad mouthed because it's literally falling apart. It's in desperate need for maintenance.

In my opinion, Splash is a "perfect ride" to me when in full "show-ready" mode. It's a toss up between WDW's Splash Mountain (when in top shape) and Paris' Pirates of the Caribbean for my top two favorite rides of all time. The problem is that a large quantity of the characters and effects in the ride are broken or only partially working. When everything works as originally intended when the ride was first built, the huge majority of people agree that the ride is incredible and that there's nothing the ride really needs. It's a brilliant attraction when working properly. In my humble opinion, the ride holds up amazingly well for a nearly 20 year old attraction. Though again stressing, when it's show-ready and everything works. I can't even think of anything i'd change in terms of imagineering.

The original Imagination 1.0 is in a similar field for me. To me, it was a very solid contender for best children's fantasy dark ride of all time (not including rides like Horizons, WoM, or SSE). And it had a timeless feel to it that didn't rely too heavily on technology of the 80's that would later be outdated (with the exception of maybe a couple of elements). Its name certainly indicated what you were in for too. Some of the effects could have used some minor updating here and there, but i'll never feel it needed any sort of gutting and "re-imagining". I'd much rather it had forever remained in its original form than what they did to it. The funny thing is that the current rendition of the ride is horrible whether you compare it to the original or never even knew there was another version. It's terrible even when taken as a standalone ride.

I have nothing against major refurbs as long as what they replace it with is superior to the original. The Jeremy Irons SSE is one of the few examples i can think of that truly improved on the original logically in every way. The Disneyland Fantasyland redesign of the 80's was probably another, i hear they redid the rides respectfully during that time. But it's far too easy to rip out the heart and soul of the original attraction for the sake of being temporarily hip to a certain time period or getting a cheap and quick thrill. It's very rarely i've seen a ride truly improved in a massive refurb or reimagining. It can be done, but it's rare and apparently difficult for the current imagineering department. Or in Imagination's case, it's just due to cost reasons or some garbage...[/QUOTE]

Great paragraphs and all well said. I agree, Imagination could have very well have done just fine today as it was with some minor changes and adjustments. For some reason the powers that be from management to sponsors to Imagineering felt the need to PILLAGE through futureworld in the 90s. Change is fine and can be great but not when your left with shallowness (imagination) and idiotic scripts (sse) unfinished projects, shuttered areas and so on. I would like to still think Imagineering still "has it", but anymore its becoming rare. The haunted mansion changes was one major recent success, but in terms of Epcot...:brick:

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Thanks for mentioning Haunted Mansion, i'd forgotten about that one. And yes i'm pretty much 90% extremely pleased with everything they did to it. For the most part a great redo. I even like the new queue elements (though i realize some people detest them). The only issue i take is the new "pun bride". Don't care for her and think her effect somehow looks much worse than the ancient graveyard busts as well as Leota. But i won't get into that, i'm mostly pleased with the ride, moreso than displeased.

 

[disney fan 13]

Thanks for mentioning Haunted Mansion, i'd forgotten about that one. And yes i'm pretty much 90% extremely pleased with everything they did to it. For the most part a great redo. I even like the new queue elements (though i realize some people detest them). The only issue i take is the new "pun bride". Don't care for her and think her effect somehow looks much worse than the ancient graveyard busts as well as Leota. But i won't get into that, i'm mostly pleased with the ride, moreso than displeased.

I feel HM is the most kept up in WDW ( which is good since it is my favorite ride

 

[misterID]

We had Ron Schneider on our show last week and the topic came up regarding giving fans what they want. He pointedly said, "No, don't give the fans what they want because if you give fans what they want, they'll ask for more of the same."

Well, it's obvious this is what TDO, or maybe Disney as a whole thinks. EPCOT is the embodiment of not giving fans what they want, or not caring. Maybe it's arrogance. The outcome is that a great park is horribly stale and has been terribly mishandled.

But guess what? They did do what the fans wanted by bringing in Soarin. And it was and is a huge success. They might need to rethink their approach to building attractions (or keeping them) based on what the fans might actually like.

How should the Imagination Pavilion evolved? We're not sure but the current version isn't it.

How should Spaceship Earth have evolved? Well, not Time Racers - that's for sure. They got it 70% right on the most recent refurbishment, but the Jetson's ending and dumbed down narration is what people focus on.

What about The Land Pavilion? I'd argue that while Soarin' isn't the best thematic fit, this pavilion has evolved better than any other in Future World.

The Seas Pavilion desperately needed to evolve and while many dislike the ride, they succeeded in breathing new life into that pavilion with Turtle Talk and the Nemo content.

I also feel that the Energy Pavilion changed for the better, but that was in 1996. It's an example of something that's just overdue for an update.

I would be interested to find out if Test Track, as a lower capacity attraction accommodates more people than World of Motion did towards the end of it's run. I enjoyed World of Motion, but I think it's safe to say that the masses appreciated this evolution as well.

On to Horizons, count me of the opinion that this should have been given a Spaceship Earth level treatment. Upgrading scenes and technology, modernize the ending and keep it as a marque dark ride. The problem is that Disney made a huge mistake with Mission: SPACE. It was probably the biggest theme park flop in their history. Had Mission: SPACE been a hit, fans would have missed Horizons, but the sting wouldn't have been as bad.

I agree with basically everything here. But hearing that TT isn't going to have any retro WOM elements in the actual attraction, that it's basically readjusting some lighting and removing some stuff to "change" the theme, really dampens my expectations and excitement about it.

It could be great, but now... Eh. I'll see what happens.

 

[Brava Centauri]

A very interesting an enlightening thread! It's a subject that's been forefront on my mind right now. I've read through all 10 pages so far, and have some thoughts ...

Why the dino hate at USE? To me, the dinosaur diorama is the highlight of the ride. For those questioning what it has to do with energy, the point is that a lot of the energy sources we still use today were formed back in prehistoric times. Without this turbulent era in Earth's past, we'd still be riding horses everywhere. I'm glad that for the most part, USE is still pretty close to its original version. I'm a child of the 80's and 90's, so I was one of those kids who rushed home to watch Bill Nye the Science Guy. Even though he's not popular like he used to be, he's still relevant and engaging for kids--if for anything else other than his notability. The length of the ride keeps a good chunk of people occupied and out of lines, it keeps them in A/C, and educates them. The current problem, though, is that we have a lot of new energy sources and technologies that the ride pre-dates. All of the movie portions, too, could be jazzed up with some sort of newfangled technology. Not 3D, though; personally I think 3D is WAY overused and a cop-out. So, sometime in the near future, USE could definitely be updated with a new Ellen AA, updated story, and some added flair. But keep the base of the ride and its iconic dinosaurs intact.

I'm glad that most people feel the same way about Fast Pass as I do ... which is that most rides don't need it at all. I'm mystified by the news of the addition of FP to The Seas. It would have to be for Crush because that ride is always a walk-on, even when I've been there during peak times. Don't get me started on my opinions of how they botched that "update". Others have said it already.

Judging by recent photos I've seen of people sneaking around WOL during festival times, they couldn't just re-open the attractions without doing some serious maintenance. What shocks me more is that much of the attractions in the original Image Works upstairs at JII are still there in various stagnant stages of dismantlement. The current IW is a joke (as we all know) and with the upstairs area still intact and technology how it is today ... they could easily update that area and reopen it with probably less money than all these dubious "next-gen" projects. Heck, make the original IW "next-gen"! There ya go, Disney ... free advice! :lol:

... in my fantasy world, they would do that in anticipation of restoring JII back to its original version so that the pavilion could still function while the construction happens. I'm 100% agreed with those who stated that the original ride was timeless and would have only needed some technology updates on some of the special effects. Disney still has a chance to undo a very big wrong here, and their reversal to the original show at the Tiki Room gives me hope that this could one day happen at JII.

I was listening to a podcast about Epcot recently and one comment gives me hope. It essentially said that most changes at the parks begin as plans several years in advance. For all we know, maybe Disney does have plans to fix EPCOT--they just have to finish all the current projects. In my opinion, stop with the building of timeshares and put money back into the parks ... and I'm not just talking attractions, here. The monorail system is a mess and the buses are a pain. In the words of SNL, JUST FIX IT!

Until then, Disney will just pretend FW doesn't exist and continue to push Epcot as a place for festivals to do things other than riding rides and learning stuff that isn't about cooking or gardening.

 

[NoChesterHester]

Martin and Lee have stated there are designs for Universe of Energy and Imagination. Neither have been green lit.

The lack of updates to future world are frustrating for many because we all assume Epcot is an absolute cash cow. Tons of food and beverage sales. The majority of the park is just shopping, dining, and drinking and people love it.

 

[TropicalFig8]

I think Epcot is the most neglected park. MK and AK have their expansions. What does Epcot get? A Test Track 2.0. Which I guess is okay to those who thought TT needed an update. But when was the last time Epcot got a decent attraction?

They could easily reopen WOL. They just need to find a good sponsor. Same for Imagination. After the big expansions,they need to focus on the more important things than spending money on NextGen and if they still do it, I've heard ideas of using the Upstairs Imageworks.
Like that one poster said,in my heart they will make an Imagination 4.0, but I just got to wait.

I kind of like Ellen's Energy Adventure but I miss the Radok cubes and the songs of the original UOE. I bet none of the kids of this generation know who Bill Nye is. We do because of our childhoods.

And I love Turtle Talk,but Pixar doesn't belong in Epcot. Keep original Epcot characters like Dreamfinder, Figment and Buzzy.

To sum it up,think before you act.

 

[acr123]

I feel HM is the most kept up in WDW ( which is good since it is my favorite ride

Yes but they really do need to get rid of the bride. Awful update to the ride. She looks awful and doesn not seem to fit with the rest of the rides animatronics the ways she is presented now. She looks like a cheap "addition" and not something timeless as the other characters ....or I mean GHOSTS do.

 

[WondersOfLife]

I think Epcot is the most neglected park. MK and AK have their expansions. What does Epcot get? A Test Track 2.0. Which I guess is okay to those who thought TT needed an update. But when was the last time Epcot got a decent attraction?

They could easily reopen WOL. They just need to find a good sponsor. Same for Imagination. After the big expansions,they need to focus on the more important things than spending money on NextGen and if they still do it, I've heard ideas of using the Upstairs Imageworks.
Like that one poster said,in my heart they will make an Imagination 4.0, but I just got to wait.

I kind of like Ellen's Energy Adventure but I miss the Radok cubes and the songs of the original UOE. I bet none of the kids of this generation know who Bill Nye is. We do because of our childhoods.

And I love Turtle Talk,but Pixar doesn't belong in Epcot. Keep original Epcot characters like Dreamfinder, Figment and Buzzy.

To sum it up,think before you act.

I personally think the AVATAR expansion should've been converted into the WoL pavilion..

-WondersOfLife


The last original pavilion. :king:

 

[bhg469]

Martin and Lee have stated there are designs for Universe of Energy and Imagination. Neither have been green lit.

The lack of updates to future world are frustrating for many because we all assume Epcot is an absolute cash cow. Tons of food and beverage sales. The majority of the park is just shopping, dining, and drinking and people love it.

I love Epcot and for this main reasons. I love eating there and exploring. The attractions went from timeless to one and done rides. Its really sad IMO.

 

[NoChesterHester]

I love Epcot and for this main reasons. I love eating there and exploring. The attractions went from timeless to one and done rides. Its really sad IMO.

Test Track 2.0 is a step in the right direction. This refurb definitely came as more of a surprise all things considered. I can only hope that Future World gets some attention in the next five years.

The reality is Imagination needs a redo far more then Epcot needs Wonders of Life reopened. At least Wonders is tucked back in the corner. Imagination is so prominent which makes it all the more sad.

If Energy and Imagination get the love they deserve then Future World would feel oh so much better.

 

[bhg469]

Test Track 2.0 is a step in the right direction. This refurb definitely came as more of a surprise all things considered. I can only hope that Future World gets some attention in the next five years.

The reality is Imagination needs a redo far more then Epcot needs Wonders of Life reopened. At least Wonders is tucked back in the corner. Imagination is so prominent which makes it all the more sad.

If Energy and Imagination get the love they deserve then Future World would feel oh so much better.

I agree with you 95% but as long as there are predominant buildings, wonders of life and the Odyssey, I cannot say they are doing enough. I do agree, imagination is open and needs attention more than wonders of life especially since the building is so huge and not even close to being in full use. The test track refurb sounds like its going to be great but I get almost angry when I see buildings that used to house some pretty cool stuff, wasted.

 

[mrksmpsn]

I was never really a fan of WoM. I get it has large sets, and tons of AAs, but it really just felt like 'one in a crowd' to me. TT is a successful upgrade in my book.

Horizons is missed for the same type of reason CoP is cherished. It's a format uniquely Disney laced with story, effects, and awe. Horizons needed an update BADLY and could not have stayed in it's format. But I don't think M:S was a bad replacement.. I just miss my memories of Horizons. Park Ops misses the crowd chewer.

WoM and Horizons both told a story though, just as SE still tries to. The AA figures was what made them unique as it still does with the AmAdv. I think what many of us miss is the uniqueness of the AA that was a hallmark of Disney vs. other parks. Now many of the rides seem to favor cardboard cut outs and still scenes rather than the movement the AAs brought to the show.

I know cost cutting measures and maintenance issues must be at play in part. And our culture today seems more fascinated by thrill level movement as the attraction with story as the sidebar. I think that is why MS gets by as will a revamped TT. Some of us remember when the story was the show, hence our love for CP in the MK, Horizons, WoM, AmAdv, and SE. Thrill rides, and some better ones, can be found in other parks, but the AAs were once unique to Disney.

Maybe it makes a difference if you are a die hard Disney fan vs. a run of the mill park guest. A Disney fan looks at an attraction and notices the details and the uniqueness of what is there and loves learning about the details that are hidden in the attraction that the casual guest does not notice. Disney attractions use to be great on details and authenticity in the propos used in the AA story rides. Watching for them and realizing the attention to detail was there made the ride unique. Today though it is more about the thrill of the ride--but to each his own. I just miss the AA types of stories.

Even those who say Disney movies are for kids haven't dug deep enough to appreciate the uniqueness of how the various films were made and how revolutionary the techniques used to make them were at the time. Walt did some groundbreaking and standard setting things in his day that were and are a form of art now replaced with other technologies. Watching a film like Bambi or Pinocchio is not just about the story for me--I also see the creativity and talent and technology that made those movies possible. I wonder if folks appreciate the work involved in the use of newer technologies to make Disney and Pixar stories happen today.

I know people don't go to Disney to be an art consumer--they go to have fun and relax. Some of us are more interested in being in the parks open to close and enjoy the attraction details, some are more interested in sleeping in or lounging by the pool and taking in a few attractions on a whim. But the fun of Disney is that we all get to do what we like to do and if we can come away refreshed by the experience then the vacation is a success. I know of folks who only see 1 thing to every 5 I see, but they had a great time--that is what is important for them. For me I would be disappointed for the outlay of money to see less, so I plan ahead and have fun doing so and come back tired but refreshed because I had fun. Yes, we sometimes complain about long lines and bad weather and maybe getting our travel plans messed up, but we still find ourselves going back because Disney is still unique.

I hope they don't sacrifice that uniqueness, which is what I think folks here are ultimately concerned about. Just a thought.

 

[TropicalFig8]

I personally think the AVATAR expansion should've been converted into the WoL pavilion..

-WondersOfLife


The last original pavilion. :king:

I agree 100%.

If only it was around to help with the summer crowds when the TT refurb is going on and Soarin' is crazy.
That's why I cancelled my summer trip. :lookaroun

 

[ctxak98]

WoM and Horizons both told a story though, just as SE still tries to. The AA figures was what made them unique as it still does with the AmAdv. I think what many of us miss is the uniqueness of the AA that was a hallmark of Disney vs. other parks. Now many of the rides seem to favor cardboard cut outs and still scenes rather than the movement the AAs brought to the show.

I know cost cutting measures and maintenance issues must be at play in part. And our culture today seems more fascinated by thrill level movement as the attraction with story as the sidebar. I think that is why MS gets by as will a revamped TT. Some of us remember when the story was the show, hence our love for CP in the MK, Horizons, WoM, AmAdv, and SE. Thrill rides, and some better ones, can be found in other parks, but the AAs were once unique to Disney.

Maybe it makes a difference if you are a die hard Disney fan vs. a run of the mill park guest. A Disney fan looks at an attraction and notices the details and the uniqueness of what is there and loves learning about the details that are hidden in the attraction that the casual guest does not notice. Disney attractions use to be great on details and authenticity in the propos used in the AA story rides. Watching for them and realizing the attention to detail was there made the ride unique. Today though it is more about the thrill of the ride--but to each his own. I just miss the AA types of stories.

Even those who say Disney movies are for kids haven't dug deep enough to appreciate the uniqueness of how the various films were made and how revolutionary the techniques used to make them were at the time. Walt did some groundbreaking and standard setting things in his day that were and are a form of art now replaced with other technologies. Watching a film like Bambi or Pinocchio is not just about the story for me--I also see the creativity and talent and technology that made those movies possible. I wonder if folks appreciate the work involved in the use of newer technologies to make Disney and Pixar stories happen today.

I know people don't go to Disney to be an art consumer--they go to have fun and relax. Some of us are more interested in being in the parks open to close and enjoy the attraction details, some are more interested in sleeping in or lounging by the pool and taking in a few attractions on a whim. But the fun of Disney is that we all get to do what we like to do and if we can come away refreshed by the experience then the vacation is a success. I know of folks who only see 1 thing to every 5 I see, but they had a great time--that is what is important for them. For me I would be disappointed for the outlay of money to see less, so I plan ahead and have fun doing so and come back tired but refreshed because I had fun. Yes, we sometimes complain about long lines and bad weather and maybe getting our travel plans messed up, but we still find ourselves going back because Disney is still unique.

I hope they don't sacrifice that uniqueness, which is what I think folks here are ultimately concerned about. Just a thought.

THIS ....is exactly why dinosaur is my favorite ride.....Because it has a story, good themeing, good build up, somewhat a thrill, somewhat scary, AND has awesome one of a kind AA's......its just creates this perfect ride in my eyes. WE NEED MORE!

 

[marni1971]

At least Wonders is tucked back in the corner.

The trees hiding the pavilion have been allowed to grow on purpose. A mentality of Maybe if guests can't see the pavilion too well they won't realise it's an $80 million facility built for day guests and now under control of events.

Compare to how it looked in the early 90s...

 

[Brava Centauri]

Honestly, Disney's current model is "let's put a band-aid over things and hope guests don't notice" or even, "we'll just let it go and guests won't notice".

I wonder, if one were to walk up to a random tourist with no prior knowledge of EPCOT's past and asked them, "What do you think EPCOT's theme is?" they probably wouldn't be able to say. There is no "future" in Future World anymore.

 

[pmaljr]

What is happening? Decay. They are spending a bunch of money on a TT refurb that probably needs it the least of any ride in FW but at least the sponsor is doing something there to help with it so I can't complain about it.

However, more people visit the Electric Umbrella than the Universe of Energy and Imagination combined, The Living Seas is an abomination, and the Wonders of Life pavilion and attractions are boarded up. It's bad when taking pictures of the outsides of buildings is more fun/interesting than what's inside of them.

If you say, "it's not really that bad" then just think about how much money tickets are now for Epcot versus what they used to be when all of those attractions/rides were operating and in their heyday, and you will realize you are being ripped off and you will become ticked off. Think about that for a minute: the entire pavilion is gone at Wonders of Life (a complete theme from the park gone with multiple attractions and activities), Imagination and UoE are only shadows of their former selves, and the Living Seas is utterly freakin' useless unless you're 5 or want to overpay for food, AND the cost to attend the park is more now than when all of that stuff used to be at its peak. In 1990, a one day ticket cost ~$40. Now, it costs $85 for the same park minus all the stuff we were talking about then, minus the stuff that no one cares about any more, minus the stuff that just plain sucks.

It's pathetic and gets me mad the more I think about it. As Clark Griswold would say, "Holy !@#$! Where's the Tylenol?"

That being said, we continue to buy tickets so as Obi-Wan Kenobi says, "Who's more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows it?"