What will replace Pleasure Island?

[cdunbar]

Anyway, done with this. I'm so over PI threads. :dazzle:

Yeah it calls for me to call certain individuals @$$ hats far too often. :brick:

 

[71jason]

"Basic sense" is in the eye of the beholder. :lol:

If they were truly "re-visioning" the entire area [which they announced they were], it makes perfect sense to completely gut the area and offer the whole place full of venues to choose from. Remember, when they started the shutdown of the clubs there was discussion that they were not making any profit. When shuttering them is cheaper, you shutter them. New vendors approach a prospective venue differently when there are established venues in place, when there are older venues still in place that may or may not be closed in future and when the place is empty and similar class of venues are being courted for all the vacancies.

A couple flaws in your argument. First, as a whole PI was profitable. The individual clubs, but for BET and CW, were profitable. 8Traxx was obscenely profitable. Empty buildings are not profitable--they still have to be maintained (to keep the liquor licenses for private events), and in in the case of the AC, still had the lights and air conditioning on.

Moreover, by shutting down the clubs, WDW discouraged new businesses. Cheesecake Factory was supposedly a done deal until the clubs closed down--no one could look at Raglan and Paradisio and want to open another restaurant in that vacant stretch. The whole place feels like a ghost town. Slowly trading out one club for another restaurant might have worked (as was the original plan for RnRBC/Cheesecake Factory), but you can't shut them all down at once and try to rebuild the area piece-meal.

Shutting down all the clubs had a negative impact on guest experience, as well. A stretch of vacant buildings is the epitome of "bad show."

Finally, I still doubt the idea that PI could have supported 6 or 8 new restaurants in such a small stretch. High-end places weren't biting, just because it's Disney, not Sand Lake Road (see my comments in the other AC thread). And you can only build so many theme restaurants witht he same absic menu before they start to cannabalize one another (T-Rex has taken a bite out of RFC's business). Nightlife is a viable--indeed necessary--option for a "vacation resort." And that is one thing sorely lacking on WDW property right now.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Earlier this week a couple cars in the PI parking lot were burglarized. Several weeks ago the McDonald's in Disney Marketplace was robbed. These things can happen anywhere but my point is that DTD is not any better just because the Pleasure Island clubs are closed. If the wrong element was hanging out at PI because there was night clubs (and I seriously question that the wrong element was hanging out there), then the wrong element is still hanging out there.

 

[Jseven]

Can anyone remind me what was in the building where Paradiso is now? For the life of me, I havent been able to remember! Thanks!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I did... I called it a conspiracy theory.

I have not presented information here as fact. I have couched my statements in terms of what I understand or believe to be the case, but never as fact. I have presented logic to provide a foundation for what I understand or believe to be the case.

I've also never indicated that there is or is not a plan to rectify any of this. I have however presented a reasoned explanation of how I think Disney may have gotten to where they are without stooping to unfounded accusations of bureaucratic malfeasance. :animwink:

It's not conspiracy, I don't see where that assertion comes from.

And yes, I appreciate the appraisal of the situation from a different perspective, such as yours. However, I ask you, what of this "inside" information that has been obtained on how TDO wanted PI "killed". The conspiracy, as you say. If we truly want to be logical and balanced here, why not address ALL these points? I'm open to suggestion, ready and waiting...:wave:

1) I'd say that a company which is infamous for making stars out of mediocre talent through marketing and merchandise intentionally killed Pleasure Island by not giving it a lick of advertising. Have you seen the crap they push on the WDW Buses? Most guests didn't even know PI was there. Word of mouth can only get you so far. Same thing with the Boardwalk.

2) They ended the nightly New Years Eve celebration and removed the gates and failed to update outdated clubs.

3) The Adventurers Club was still doing great but actually cost money to run because of *gasp* entertainment (quite a concept at WDW). Imagine if they had a restaurant and shop to go along with it!

4) Overpriced cover charges and drinks. Reduce the cost of both and people will spend more.

5) No direct transportation from resorts to PI. It took me about 40 minutes to use Disney transportation to get to PI. Same problem for the Boardwalk. Annoying and frustrating.

Right on. And this isn't even the half of it. It was made to look distasteful and failing, that is CERTAIN.

 

[vonpluto]

Can anyone remind me what was in the building where Paradiso is now? For the life of me, I havent been able to remember! Thanks!

Sweet Surrender 1989 - 1991
Hill St. Diner 1991 - 1996
Missing Link Sausage Co. 1996 - 3/06


Avigators 1989 - 1999
Mouse House 1999 - 2/05
Harley Davidson 3/05 - 3/06


Yesterears 1989 - 1992
DTV 1993 - 3/06

 

[Master Gracey]

Can anyone remind me what was in the building where Paradiso is now? For the life of me, I havent been able to remember! Thanks!

It was a grouping of three stores:

1: Avigators: featureing the latest in men's and women's character attire designed to fit your casual lifestyle.

(Pleasure Shipping and Receiving: 1924) Merriweather Adam Pleasure originally used this space to facilitate his business refurbishing ships and yachts. When he began traversing the world in search of adventure, in 1931 it became his depot for cataloging the many strange, weird and wonderful objects he had acquired during his world travels. Many of the ones that grace the walls of the Adventurer’s Club sat on the floor of the building in wooden crates, sometimes for years, a kind of portable “Xanadu”. In 1939, Pleasure befriended a group of native Floridian stunt pilots, headed by Roth Kidnick, aka “Crash and Carry”. He had them live on Pleasure Island till the outbreak of World War II. These men called themselves the “Avigaotrs” (since the all lived in the Everglades at one time), and when they returned from active duty, they founded an Import/Export business in this space, which had been given to them by Pleasure before his disappearance in 1941. This became their World Headquarters. Although the business was good, these aerial daredevils quickly lost interest in it, and abandoned Pleasure Island to start a bush pilot service in Bornia.

2: Suspended Animation: Featureing a selection of Disney collectibles sure to please even the most discerning connoisseur: posters, prints, lithographs, ceramics and various production cels.

(Navigational Pleasure Island Graphics, LTD.: 1924) This was the personal domain of R. Hamilton Procter, artist extraordinaire and the ONLY man who could consistently beat Merriweather Adam Pleasure at cribbage. (No one could beat Pleasure at dominoes.) Procter was Pleasure’s overall graphics department, painting custom designs on the yacht while his friend was re-furbishing. He was widely acknowledged as the best “gold leaf man” In the United States, and several of his shipboard illustrations hang today in major museums. Procter left the Island in 1939 after a particularly heated game of cribbage (he beat Pleasure three games in a row, not a good thing to do), so he took off for Tahiti on his own yacht. The building itself was damaged by a 1944 tornado, and only partially rebuilt.

3: Yesterears: Featured a mix of Disney products from the 30s and 40s

(Chandlery and Tool Crib: 1924) One of the support facilities for Merriweather Pleasure’s main business, “Pleasure Canvas and Sailmakers”. The business went beyond just making sails, though. By the mid-20’s Pleasure was involved in the complete refurbishment of some of the most luxurious privately owned yachts in the world, for which he needed all varieties of supplies, tools and equipment. This was where those items were stockpiled. In 1944, a savage tornado tore off the front of the building, and a million or so bolts, screws, linchpins, lugnuts, and spanner wrenches were scattered to the far corners of the Island (one might still come across such an item today). Since the yacht-refurbishing business was moribund, the two Pleasure sons decided not to re-build completely, and just salvage what was left of the building.

 

[828tnt]

no offense to all. esp some of the personal "i know somin' you don't" or "i'm obviously a bigger fan than you" or "child please, disney always knows (does) the right thing" comments. but this is where the nail meets the head:

I agree the dance clubs needed to be closed, but there was a time when Disney did not close attractions without planning something new. Closed, empty buildings have become too commen at WDW. It's starting to look like Detroit.

"Blatently lying to the public, claiming there was some kind of "bold new vision" is insulting. Disney seems to have no respect any more for the public--it's a complete 180 for Walt's days. "

Clearly the WDW executives thought: everyone would want to open a restaurant at Disney. Let just close up the stuff the old timers built and rent it out. We wont need to manage anything, we'll just be landlords!

This is the same logic behind Flamigo Crossing and it's arrogant. Disney management today thinks their brand is so strong but they have no understanding of how that brand was built, and they have no respect for the people that built it, and no respect for the public that responds to it.

ignorance simply blames the economy. disney has made everything fall into the new brand of disney.... and it's not all that talented or unique. in fact its boring.

i'm a huge fan, who's made a huge personal investment- as most here have in one way or another. but but, unlike one of walt's famous quote's "keep moving forward", disney has not. they have continued to implode upon any past success. no longer unique.



Blatently lying to the public, claiming there was some kind of "bold new vision" is insulting. Disney seems to have no respect any more for the public--it's a complete 180 for Walt's days.

this is the part that gets me most! it's the blind faith part. if you're not believin and buying, you're just not enough of a fan.

they aren't always honest. and it is insulting! i expect uniqueness from disney, not recyclables. this was never walt's vision.

 

[CaptainJackNO]

And there are still arrests happening and there are still "New Orleans'ish" "thugs" loitering about. The loiterers I saw were almost always on the west side anyway, not in Pleasure Island because they aren't old enough. It's basically an outdoor mall. That's what kids do when they have nowhere else to go. The mall..

I know how to solve that problem, easily. Gate the parking lots and surrounding areas and limit access. Charge a modest fee for parking and allow no foot access to anyone not staying at a resort hotel. Thugs will not pay to loiter. I have no problem with this.

 

[The Mom]

No news, reheated rumors, and the usual suspects sniping at each other, so I think it's time to put this one to rest.