What Is Disney World Missing

Would Walt Be Happy With Walt Disney World Today

  • Yes

    Votes: 66 61.1%
  • No

    Votes: 42 38.9%

  • Total voters
    108
  • Poll closed .

graphite1326

Well-Known Member
I voted yes - but thre IS one significant item that I think Walt would have wanted....

A modern mass transit system - ie, not diesel powered busses. Monorail was a good start, long ago... but it's just not scalable in 2012. I don't know what that system should be - but it should likely be as cutting edge as a monorail was in the '50s.

I agree
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
He created it and wanted it to change and expand and for the legacy to live on.
But it bears little resemblance to what he know he intended for the site.

I'd think he'd be disappointed with the lack of character representation. Before my time the character use to walk about freely in the parks. Even when I first started going to the parks there were more character available to meet. I would like to see more characters out for my kids to meet, this way when they see the older Disney movies they can connect with the characters they are seeing.
The characters were not a big part of Disneyland during his lifetime.
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
I believe Walt would be happy seeing the number of families being able to enjoy the rides, entertainment, the park atmosphere, the joy and wonder added to their lives. And these families in many cases coming back again and again, some with next generations. I know he has made me and my family happier by experiencing his vision/dream.
The real question is not Would Walt be happy, but... Would Walt be satisfied.
He would surely want constant upgrading, further tweaking always looking to make something better, not letting any aspect of the World become stagnant.
 

cheezbat

Well-Known Member
Aside from the Magic Kingdom, I think Walt would want to see MANY more family rides and attractions at the other three parks. I also don't think he would be too happy about the lack of attractions at DHS and DAK in comparison to the other parks.

He probably wouldn't be too happy about the transportation mess, or the maintenence issues, he'd probably be sad that his idea of EPCOT never truly materialized, and I think he'd be disappointed in what the Magic Kingdom is...he wanted it to be a BIGGER and BETTER version of the Anaheim park.

I'd tell you one thing: we'd have a working Yeti! :lol:
 

JimboJones123

Well-Known Member
He'd be F***ing blown away and ALL of you know it.

I have seen the 1970s pics posted the past few weeks. The parks look sickly due to mack of vegetation upkeep. Eventually he may get around to maintinence, but imagine taking Walt down Sunset Blvd and on to Tower of Terror! Then for a ride on the safari. Next on Spaceship Earth. Finally on Splash Mountain (and no, I don't need smart@$$ comments about how things were broken a few weeks ago).

He would stop. He would cry. He would give you a hardy handshake. He would say well done.

Seriously, Disneyland did a full 180 in a matter of months before the 50th. It can be done in WDW too. Walt would look at the big picture though and be amazed.

As far as Epcot is concerned, I think Walt would adore it. It was never meant to be his Epcot. He would be a smart enough guy to understand that it is a homage.

I think he would be much more disappointed in the cynicism that we have towards WDW. That would.break his heart.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
He'd be F***ing blown away and ALL of you know it.

I have seen the 1970s pics posted the past few weeks. The parks look sickly due to mack of vegetation upkeep. Eventually he may get around to maintinence, but imagine taking Walt down Sunset Blvd and on to Tower of Terror! Then for a ride on the safari. Next on Spaceship Earth. Finally on Splash Mountain (and no, I don't need smart@$$ comments about how things were broken a few weeks ago).

He would stop. He would cry. He would give you a hardy handshake. He would say well done.

Seriously, Disneyland did a full 180 in a matter of months before the 50th. It can be done in WDW too. Walt would look at the big picture though and be amazed.

As far as Epcot is concerned, I think Walt would adore it. It was never meant to be his Epcot. He would be a smart enough guy to understand that it is a homage.

I think he would be much more disappointed in the cynicism that we have towards WDW. That would.break his heart.

I don't mean this antagonistically, but you would be well advised not to tell people how they think, in regards to your first sentence. There's excellent reasons to think he'd be disappointed. Walt Disney was well known to have an impeccable eye for spotting details and flaws. Anyone who is aware of even snippets of what he was like knows all the accounts of his extreme attention to detail and drive for perfection and improvement in his endeavors. If average guests at the parks are seeing things wrong, it shouldn't need to be said that Walt Disney would be able to find far more wrong with the management than most regulars are seeing. The state of things has gotten so bad that even people who aren't obsessed with details can't help but see things wrong (and yes i will indeed quote "Ghetto Splash Mountain"). If you think vegetation is the sole problem with WDW, you're mistaken. Chipped paint everywhere, massive quantities of burned out lights, rust, fading paint, huge amounts of broken or only partially working ride assets. The list is massive.

It's clear from everything we know about Mr Disney that he would NEVER tolerate the sort of incompetent, amateurish, and absolutely unacceptable level of mismanagement that goes on at WDW nowadays. If he knew how everything was intended to function or look, he would be absolutely furious and disappointed with how the people running his company violated and destroyed his core ideal of quality of show. That's not even debatable. This is regardless of whether he liked or disliked certain attractions and parks.

Knowing what was once there, i also cannot imagine Mr Disney liking the current forms of SSE, Imagination, shuttering Wonders of Life, or even losing attractions such as World of Motion or Horizons to satisfy a need for cheap thrills by certain park goers. Though to be fair, i can't imagine he would have been satisfied with Epcot regardless, it was his biggest project ever to build a real futuristic city and the company quickly disregarded it. That would have saddened him immensely. Though the original 1982 Epcot at least contained many of his visionary ideals, unlike the current joke of a park (Future World at least). The one part of Epcot i think he'd like is World Showcase. Though he'd also probably have been "what the heck is this doing in Epcot?" I could see him being extremely impressed and happy with American Adventure. It really feels like something he would have made.

Animal Kingdom is the one park i'd speculate he'd at least appreciate somewhat, possibly. I think he'd definitely like the concept and that had he still been alive, we'd probably have seen something like it happen. Though again, he'd no doubt have been disappointed in what could have been but never made the cut. And of course the way management has defecated all over Everest and Dinosaur. Also can't see him liking Dinorama in any possible way.

And in terms of maintenance, you're equating what could be done with what will be done, which just isn't likely to happen. Disneyland was cleaned up, there's nothing to say that management for WDW is going to receive a sudden improvement. They aren't going to change anything when their profits continually soar. People are giving them no reason to change. Our resident insiders who know the inner workings of the company have also given countless indications that things aren't on any route to change.

So yeah he'd probably be sad that people were so cynical towards WDW. But for a different reason than you're stating. He'd share this feeling towards his own company, along with absolute horror and fury at the current leaders that betrayed his core ideals and work philosophy of quality of show. I don't have any doubt that he'd see eye to eye with the so called "cynics" in regards to maintenance at least. I hate to sound so sure of what a deceased person would act like and present it in such a militant manner, but we know enough about Disney to realize how quality of show and small details matter. What he might think about certain parks or attractions is another matter that we can't really know, but the way the parks are run is something he wouldn't approve of.
 

Banksy

New Member
But it bears little resemblance to what he know he intended for the site.


The characters were not a big part of Disneyland during his lifetime.

No, it bears little resemblance to what YOU knew and probably miss. For disney world to stay open and live on, things have to change. They don't change things to ________ anyone off, they change it for a reason.

He'd be F***ing blown away and ALL of you know it.

I have seen the 1970s pics posted the past few weeks. The parks look sickly due to mack of vegetation upkeep. Eventually he may get around to maintinence, but imagine taking Walt down Sunset Blvd and on to Tower of Terror! Then for a ride on the safari. Next on Spaceship Earth. Finally on Splash Mountain (and no, I don't need smart@$$ comments about how things were broken a few weeks ago).

He would stop. He would cry. He would give you a hardy handshake. He would say well done.

Seriously, Disneyland did a full 180 in a matter of months before the 50th. It can be done in WDW too. Walt would look at the big picture though and be amazed.

As far as Epcot is concerned, I think Walt would adore it. It was never meant to be his Epcot. He would be a smart enough guy to understand that it is a homage.

I think he would be much more disappointed in the cynicism that we have towards WDW. That would.break his heart.


I totally agree. People with a lot more knowledge then the wannabe imagineers on here have had a say on what needs to be changed, and for good reason. I think he would be proud and understanding of the differences.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
No, it bears little resemblance to what YOU knew and probably miss. For disney world to stay open and live on, things have to change. They don't change things to ________ anyone off, they change it for a reason.
What I miss? First, I am not that old and second, very little of Walt's intentions for the site were actually built, so nobody can really miss them. The reasons for the change between Disney World, what Walt knew, to Walt Disney World were the very reasons Walt feared would happen, the Company would get cold feet and shy away from a project of EPCOT's magnitude. Maybe it would have been a boondoggle without Walt, but the evidence all points to EPCOT being the overriding focus of Disney World, with the theme park being a single, almost secondary element, intended to help attract tourists and generate easy revenue. As of now, there is no evidence to support the view that Walt Disney intended Disney World to be a place focused around a theme park, much less several of them.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence to support the view that Walt Disney intended Disney World to be a place focused around a theme park, much less several of them.

Great assesment. And even with that single theme park as a small side dish to what Walt really wanted to do with the place, the Florida theme park when Walt died in 1966 was simply a cut-and-pasted exact copy of Disneyland circa 1965, right down to the Matterhorn and StorybookLand and New Orleans Square and the Flying Saucers in Tomorrowland and the Indian Village beyond the Sailing Ship Columbia dock. :eek:

WALT%252BDISNEY%252B1965.jpg


Anyone who might be mistaken about how much Walt had thought about building theme parks and hotels in Florida should visit the fantastic Walt Disney Family Museum in California. http://disney.go.com/disneyatoz/familymuseum/

But after spending at least several hours getting through that huge museum that follows Walts life in chronological order, be prepared to be shocked when it gets to the exhibit about Walt's plans for his Florida property. Disney World theme park fans unfamiliar with Walt's actual work and his actual life should bring smelling salts with them to help revive them after the last room in the museum. :lookaroun
 

Banksy

New Member
What I miss? First, I am not that old and second, very little of Walt's intentions for the site were actually built, so nobody can really miss them. The reasons for the change between Disney World, what Walt knew, to Walt Disney World were the very reasons Walt feared would happen, the Company would get cold feet and shy away from a project of EPCOT's magnitude. Maybe it would have been a boondoggle without Walt, but the evidence all points to EPCOT being the overriding focus of Disney World, with the theme park being a single, almost secondary element, intended to help attract tourists and generate easy revenue. As of now, there is no evidence to support the view that Walt Disney intended Disney World to be a place focused around a theme park, much less several of them.

His mission was to create a place people love - To create a fairytale. The whole point is that tourists enjoy it. He would never have wanted to create a place people didn't enjoy. Anyway, i think they have done a goos job witH EPOCOT and the idea has changed and grew, just like it was intended to.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
His mission was to create a place people love - To create a fairytale. The whole point is that tourists enjoy it. He would never have wanted to create a place people didn't enjoy. Anyway, i think they have done a goos job witH EPOCOT and the idea has changed and grew, just like it was intended to.
Nothing about a city and industrial park, seeking to solve the problems of urban living, is the creation of a fairy tale. EPCOT was not, as Disney later tried to claim, some abstract idea. It was very much a city. All of the images of it from Walt's life show a city. The legislation package presented to the state legislature was all about a city.

Walt had a tendency throughout his life to get fixated on something and somewhat ignore others. He first focus on animation, but then turn to live action, to the ire of many in the animation department. Then he focused on Disneyland, which caused some serious issues between him and the Studio over WED, a separate company that taking not only Walt's time, but also that of Studio employees. Then, towards the end of his life he became focused on urban design. There was no real turning back, because he did not like repeating himself. So while Disney World may well have changed into something different from the documented EPCOT that he planned, there is little evidence that, under the direction of Walt, it would have just stuck with theme parks. It would have become the building site for whatever it was after urban design that would have caught Walt's fancy.
 

jtizzle1023

Member
Its 50/50 for me, I think he would most definitely be happy with what the company has accomplished but at the same time the thing he would probably be most upset about is the fact of the upkeep of the parks, Walt was always a storyteller and wanted the best show possible. Seeing things such as the Yeti and Splash Mountain with half working figures would really upset him.
 

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
I say no. Nothing really visionary has happened in a long time. The goal was new urban engineering. Now granted this was the vision that came from the days when Americans trusted industry and government. Urban planning of the type where you actually developed both community and high tech collaboration with many different industrial partners. He was not really going to be all that interested in creating a huge farm of hotels and theme parks. He wanted production and innovation along with building one of the worlds new great cities in an ordered manner. It certainly would not have been indicative of the urban sprawl that happens in most of Florida. That sprawl was exactly what turned him off in the area around Disneyland.

Now, I am not sure the project would have worked simply because America went through massive cultural changes in the years after Walt died. It would have been a difficult task. But what has happened on the property is in no way the vision he had for it before he died.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
But what has happened on the property is in no way the vision he had for it before he died.

No kidding.

And yet there are some folks who have no idea that is the case. They actually think that Walt dreamed of the Magic Kingdom Park before he passed away in 1966, and that the property as opened in 1971 was close to what Walt had envisioned for the place. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I once had a tour guide on a Backstage Magic tour at the Magic Kingdom tell the tour group with a straight face that Walt plotted out the details of the Magic Kingdom on his deathbed and that he had made a series of films to be used after his death instructing his Imagineers on how to craft Liberty Square and such. It was the biggest bunch of hogwash and fabricated legend I'd ever heard, and this pudgy 20 year old CM in a plaid vest (who ironically never would have been hired in Walt's day, simply based on his physical appearance) tried to get us all to believe it. Hilarious, yet sad at the same time. I think there's a lot of WDW Cast Members, and a bunch of paying customers, who still think that sort of legend is true.

Walt was moving on from theme parks and rides in late 1966. He wanted a city of the future and a mecca for unbridled capitalism and American Free Enterprise; sort of the landscaped industrial park to end all industrial parks! A clone of Disneyland (which is all he'd planned by late '66) was just the weenie to get the tourists there to see the industrial tours and planned community.

It was the operations execs that really guided the Magic Kingdom's break from a simple Disneyland clone. Operations guys like Richard Nunis who got in there and had Imagineering make the walkways twice as wide, doubled or tripled the restroom facilities, made the restaurants capable of handling a thousand hamburgers an hour, and only picked attractions for the park that could handle 10 million or more riders per year. Richard Nunis shaped the Magic Kingdom in the 1968-71 period far more than Walt ever did in the Autumn of 1966.

Walt died in 1966, and his actual dream for his Florida property never panned out and was forgotten by his brother and the company that survived him. Quite sad, really. But with the monumental cultural changes that set in from about 1967 to 1975, it's probably best that Walt wasn't there for that and didn't try and fight that.

But then, who knows, maybe if he'd lived to see the 1970's Walt would have become a Womens Libber and would've let the hippies demonstrate on Main Street USA against Vietnam and factory smokestack polution? Eh, I doubt it though. :lol:
 

Banksy

New Member
Nothing about a city and industrial park, seeking to solve the problems of urban living, is the creation of a fairy tale. EPCOT was not, as Disney later tried to claim, some abstract idea. It was very much a city. All of the images of it from Walt's life show a city. The legislation package presented to the state legislature was all about a city.

Walt had a tendency throughout his life to get fixated on something and somewhat ignore others. He first focus on animation, but then turn to live action, to the ire of many in the animation department. Then he focused on Disneyland, which caused some serious issues between him and the Studio over WED, a separate company that taking not only Walt's time, but also that of Studio employees. Then, towards the end of his life he became focused on urban design. There was no real turning back, because he did not like repeating himself. So while Disney World may well have changed into something different from the documented EPCOT that he planned, there is little evidence that, under the direction of Walt, it would have just stuck with theme parks. It would have become the building site for whatever it was after urban design that would have caught Walt's fancy.

When i said fairytale i wasn't referring to epcot, i was referring to disney as a whole. Look at EPCOT i really don't see how anyone can deny the fact that it is what walt intended.


The fact is, no one will ever know how walt would have felt about disney today, but that is my opinion and that is yours. Deal with it.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Look at EPCOT i really don't see how anyone can deny the fact that it is what walt intended..
Have you ever watched "The EPCOT Film" or seen any Walt-era art? It was NOT some abstract idea. It is a very real city with center and suburbs. It is not a theme park. Some ideas were extracted for EPCOT Center but it is still not close to what Walt had his artists draw or his brother proposed to the state legislature.
 

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