What is Disney doing to its customer life cycle?

[JIMINYCR]

The answer is that guests arent going to act in mass, or in enough numbers to affect Disney to the point where they will be affected and have to alter their way of doing business.
You have Guest #1 The one time guests. They will go on the once in a life dream trip and spend whatever it takes. They arent planning on coming back. One and done. Disney can count on these different guests coming every year and bringing profits.
You have guest #2 These will go multiple times with their children and return until they are grown up and leave the nest. They see no reason to continue going after that. As long as parents have kids, they will continue to come. They are drawn by the new attractions, events and shows. The amount spent may vary but theres a lengthy amount of time these families will go on Disney trips bringing in profits.
You have Guest #3 These are Adults who after going with their kids now go as Adult couples only trips. They have money to splurge on themselves and without the burden of kids they can spend on better resorts, longer or more frequent trips. They will then bing their grandchildren to Disney to relive their children filled days.
You have Guest #4 Locals who enjoy the parks, the festivities and the nightlife. They may or may not stay onsite. They spend money for their entertainment and enjoyment after working all week. This will not change.
And then you have guest #5. These are the minority who will boycott Disney over things they cant stand. Policies they dont accept, price changes they see as excessive, CEO's and managers who they disagree with, the way attractions and parks are set up, dining plans they see as price gouging, and so many other faults they gripe about.
Anyone who thinks Disney will price themselves out or bad policy change themselves out of enough guests doing business with them are wishing on a fantasy. Disney is here and will stay here no matter who the CEO is and no matter what bumbling they do with Disney policies. They can lose customers and will lose customers... only never enough to hurt them badly.
The things that can hurt Disney would be terrorist attacks as in 9/11, inflation and economic disaster, or a continued pandemic. And theyve shown already that they can weather these things and bounce back.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

That’s really what I was trying to get at with my question.

There a few other dynamics to consider.
1. There is competition in Orlando that 15 - 20 years ago wasn’t a near peer type competition like universal may be becoming.
2. The steep cost of an on-site Disney vacation (travel, food, resort, admission, souvenir).
3. Complexity - this is not a “show up, relax and explore” place. If you don’t know you have to plan like an OCD planner you likely miss out on the headline features.
4. Marketing the massive new rides (with low capacity) that are hard to get on….what kind of ride home is that for the every 3-5 year visitor?

This hurts Uni, SeaWorld, and Orlando in general. Or at least has the potential to. I'll still say that the majority of people visiting Orlando are going there for Disney. Once there, Uni, SeaWorld, Icon, et al fight for their share.

If Disney starts to become unaffordable for the average person (family) - then those families start opting for cruising, beach vacations, or staycations closer to home. If the visitor pie shrinks, it doesn't matter what Disney is charging. Everybody is impacted.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

I have no doubt their will be a range of people with some going more and some going less. Our time with the mouse has probable gone from 30 days a year to 3 or 4 a year... Only exception is if we do DL where we spend more time as that park doesn't seem to have seen the same decline as WDW.

Now see your first number seems insane to me.
Maybe that's why I am going more and still not getting tired of it.
I used to average 4 park days a year to now 8 park days a year. I could only imagine going 30+ if I lived in the area.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

What I find interesting is that if you asked people to define "What a Vacation is to you" - you'd get a lot of responses like:

Getting away from the stress of the day-to-day and having a stress free week with my family. Enjoying things at our own pace. Not having to plan things. Being able to set my own schedule. Not having commitments that I'm worried about fulfilling.

Ironically, Disney has introduced a counter to all of that - over the past few years. It's one thing to plan for a vacation. Check off the things you want to experience, the places you want to eat, the things you want to try - But nobody wants to be put in a position where they (or the place they plan on visiting) are having to micro-manage every aspect of their time on a "vacation".

And I'm not even talking about price-points here. This is all about the "experience".

That's been the way for the past decade and more.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I have been reading these type threads for a while now, and another idea came to my mind, but I hope it's not true.
It seems disney is raising and pushing prices and money grabs at an intense rate. That seems to be fact. The question is why?
I know it's for money, but in the long run?
I have to ask myself the question: What if they are jumping up the stock prices only to resell at a certain point? That to me would explain why they don't seem to care about the customers complaints. If they are going to sell off the parks at some point to make mega bucks for themselves and their investors, is that their plan?
I know this is "way out there" and I hope it's not true, but you never know in this day and age what they will do.
It just seems that they are ruining their fantastic brand name, taking away, raising everything in sight and that they should have some concern of the long term effect this will have on disney's bottom line.
Maybe I have too much time to think these things right now because I am at home with covid19 and on quarantine for several more days. But this idea did cross my mind. I know it's absurd, but...
What do you all think?

 

[Goofyernmost]

The answer is that guests arent going to act in mass, or in enough numbers to affect Disney to the point where they will be affected and have to alter their way of doing business.
You have Guest #1 The one time guests. They will go on the once in a life dream trip and spend whatever it takes. They arent planning on coming back. One and done. Disney can count on these different guests coming every year and bringing profits.
You have guest #2 These will go multiple times with their children and return until they are grown up and leave the nest. They see no reason to continue going after that. As long as parents have kids, they will continue to come. They are drawn by the new attractions, events and shows. The amount spent may vary but theres a lengthy amount of time these families will go on Disney trips bringing in profits.
You have Guest #3 These are Adults who after going with their kids now go as Adult couples only trips. They have money to splurge on themselves and without the burden of kids they can spend on better resorts, longer or more frequent trips. They will then bing their grandchildren to Disney to relive their children filled days.
You have Guest #4 Locals who enjoy the parks, the festivities and the nightlife. They may or may not stay onsite. They spend money for their entertainment and enjoyment after working all week. This will not change.
And then you have guest #5. These are the minority who will boycott Disney over things they cant stand. Policies they dont accept, price changes they see as excessive, CEO's and managers who they disagree with, the way attractions and parks are set up, dining plans they see as price gouging, and so many other faults they gripe about.
Anyone who thinks Disney will price themselves out or bad policy change themselves out of enough guests doing business with them are wishing on a fantasy. Disney is here and will stay here no matter who the CEO is and no matter what bumbling they do with Disney policies. They can lose customers and will lose customers... only never enough to hurt them badly.
The things that can hurt Disney would be terrorist attacks as in 9/11, inflation and economic disaster, or a continued pandemic. And theyve shown already that they can weather these things and bounce back.

There is a Guest #5.1 in there as well. First the 5.1's are not "boycotting" over things they don't like. They are simply not going anymore because they can't afford too. They are not boycotting them, they are just unable to come up with the money to do it.

I don't see it as a fantasy. When I first went there in 1983 it was for a one and done. But once we got there we had such a good time that we returned again and again. 45 times over 39 years. That made us Guest #1 and kicked us into Guest #2 was after the first and carried on through the 90's. After that the kids were on their own and I was divorced and Guest #3 kicked in and I came regularly as a solo or sometimes with a friend. At that point, I brought my family as a one time only gift to my children and grandchildren. That was without a doubt a one time thing. Guest #4 was something that my living locations managed to leave me out. As for Guest #5, I didn't boycott it, it boycotted me by pricing me out. Boycotting requires a physical, but mostly emotional reaction. Not having the resources dictate your ability even if you think the place is completely wonderful... no complaints at all.

Going back to Guest #1, I sincerely doubt that Disney is currently generating many anymore that were going once, got there and kept coming back. Why, because unlike 1983 the place requires to much work and planning to be completely enjoyable. Todays requirements, including Genie+, requires that at least one of your party has to have their nose constantly stuck to their phone screen. And plan practically every single minute of the day. Even the old paper FP's were requiring enough running around to get an available FP, but this system starting with FP+ requires constant attention to details that have nothing to do with the parks which is what everyone that went there wanted to experience.

I'm not saying that Disney is going to go out of favor in the foreseeable future, but down the road, since they did nothing to try and make peoples trip totally enjoyable, will bite them in the butt. Just as soon as the wealthy figure out that they can spend their money in beautiful places with less planning and more spontaneity. Or go on a guided tour of exotic places and all they have to do is be out of their room in time to catch the bus to real, non-plastic castles.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Long time lurker here (10+ years) and love the info and insight. What a wealth of knowledge some of the veterans bring.

I finally felt compelled to post a perspective and question.

I am stunned by the Disney parks business model over the last 15+ years. The Decline in value has been stunning and accelerating. The causes seem obvious, but Disney continues to accelerate down this path. I’m clearly not alone in in this view (anecdotally, this website and all of my family / friends that are/were huge Disney fans)

I’ve begun to wonder what the lag time is for their actions. WHEN will customers leave the business. The 5 stage customer life cycle leads me to believe that their are 5-10 years (??) between actions and consequence to the parks…sort of like car shoppers? The negative experience has to erode (4) retention and (5) advocacy. But if Disney thinks it’s much shorter than that, they will be far Down the wrong path and in a huge hole before they really feel it (Not unlike the domestic auto brands)..

I have been loyal, patient and and strong advocate Of Disney Parks. But I no longer advocate (at all) and we are actively shifting vacation patterns away from Disney (retention). The last few years and this one in particular have finally crossed the line. No need to go into extra detail, but the short list of observations…
- pricing increases seem far higher than inflation
- from “free” to “fee” changes all over the place…nickel and diming on a grand scale
- constant cuts of the “little things” like shows, entertainment
- investment in digital overlays (DME, fp+, etc) instead of rides and attractions
- investment in tent pole rides in mediocre lands with limited capacity or reliability
- direction of EPCOT is a mess…world showcase lagoon barges are hideous
- hard to believe the huge Hollywood studios investment yielded a smaller park with few rides
- deluxe hotel pricing is bizarro-world and seem to be a feeder to their DVC sales…which I think is ultimately killing their gross operating margins.
I could go on…admittedly some of this is personal preference…

So when do customers react en mass? What is the timespan for that positive/negative feedback loop (retention, advocacy)?

So when do customers react en mass? Short answer: probably never. Even during a pandemic when half the parks offerings were discontinued for the same price and you had to wear a mask all day, people came. Changes will happen, people will come and go, but for almost 70 years Disney seems to know how to run their parks in a way that balances guests/money. And if people decide it’s not worth it to them anymore, other people will take their place.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Everyone keeps saying “new generations won’t have the same connection to Disney as we did”. Have you seen Instagram? Tiktok? Selfies in the parks? YouTube streams? Younger generations are just as engulfed, maybe even more so, in the brand as older generations are, it’s just in a different way.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I have been reading these type threads for a while now, and another idea came to my mind, but I hope it's not true.
It seems disney is raising and pushing prices and money grabs at an intense rate. That seems to be fact. The question is why?
I know it's for money, but in the long run?
I have to ask myself the question: What if they are jumping up the stock prices only to resell at a certain point? That to me would explain why they don't seem to care about the customers complaints. If they are going to sell off the parks at some point to make mega bucks for themselves and their investors, is that their plan?
I know this is "way out there" and I hope it's not true, but you never know in this day and age what they will do.
It just seems that they are ruining their fantastic brand name, taking away, raising everything in sight and that they should have some concern of the long term effect this will have on disney's bottom line.
Maybe I have too much time to think these things right now because I am at home with covid19 and on quarantine for several more days. But this idea did cross my mind. I know it's absurd, but...
What do you all think?

I don't think that is a far out thought at all. Disney came ever so close to being bought out and sold off for parts. That was in the mid-eighties when Disney was quite vulnerable. It can still happen but the forced high stock prices means that it is going to take a lot of capital to buy them out, but there are groups that still have the wealth to do it..

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Everyone keeps saying “new generations won’t have the same connection to Disney as we did”

They won't. That doesn't mean they wont go. They just wont go as frequently. Won't be as receptive to being confined in "the bubble". They won't have the same connection. Won't be as "loyal" to Disney in regards to spending. And won't commit to an exclusive relationship (which at the end of the day - is what Disney wants).

That new type of guest will be just as comfortable in Disney as they will be wandering around Potter at Uni, riding the Manta at SeaWorld, going to Icon Park, or even the Andretti attraction. They'll go wherever they think they'll get followers. Even if it means posting YT videos about "sneaking" into the parks. Point being, if Disney is relying on these types of guests as a generational foundation....it will catch up to them eventually. These types of guests are going to places that they feel happen to be en vogue. What happens when Disney no longer is?

 

[castlecake2.0]

They won't. That doesn't mean they wont go. They just wont go as frequently. Won't be as receptive to being confined in "the bubble". They won't have the same connection. Won't be as "loyal" to Disney in regards to spending. And won't commit to an exclusive relationship (which at the end of the day - is what Disney wants).

That new type of guest will be just as comfortable in Disney as they will be wandering around Potter at Uni, riding the Manta at SeaWorld, going to Icon Park, or even the Andretti attraction. They'll go wherever they think they'll get followers. Even if it means posting YT videos about "sneaking" into the parks. Point being, if Disney is relying on these types of guests as a generational foundation....it will catch up to them eventually. These types of guests are going to places that they feel happen to be in vogue. What happens when Disney no longer is?

The last 70 years have shown that Disney parks has been good at finding ways to be in vogue. I think people are mad that Disney is changing and want everyone else to be mad too. I tried to get a park pass for This weekend; nothing available. For every person that decides they don’t like Disney anymore, there’s a new fan to take their place.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

The last 70 years have shown that Disney parks has been good at finding ways to be in vogue. I think people are mad that Disney is changing and want everyone else to be mad too. I tried to get a park pass for This weekend; nothing available. For every person that decides they don’t like Disney anymore, there’s a new fan to take their place.

I'm not "mad" at Disney. I just don't have the loyalty I once did. And there are a lot who feel that way. I live close enough that a monthly trip to the area is my usual pattern. And whereas 80% of my time used to be spent exclusively with Disney. I'm at about 40% now. And I will very rarely spend money outside of my AP cost and a few snacks or drinks at the parks. And that's not because I can't afford it. It's because the quality and value are no longer there. There is a reason alternate attractions and food options are popping up all over 535, I Drive and Turkey Lake.

Habits and perceptions can change on a dime. And what one day is "the place to go" - a month or two later - no longer is. To keep this in perspective, I'm not saying that suddenly people are going to stop going to Disney. I'm just reiterating that the "connection" to Disney is not what it once was. And probably will never be again. Even the vloggers who started out as Disney, Disney, Disney, Disney......are now Disney, Uni, Legoland, Disney, Icon, Sea World, Disney, Uni.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

So when do customers react en mass? Short answer: probably never. Even during a pandemic when half the parks offerings were discontinued for the same price and you had to wear a mask all day, people came. Changes will happen, people will come and go, but for almost 70 years Disney seems to know how to run their parks in a way that balances guests/money. And if people decide it’s not worth it to them anymore, other people will take their place.

Well, to be fair there wasn't a lot of options for people. I had to cancel a national park visit last summer after the lodges were shut down. People haven't been able to leave the country so cruises, trips abroad have all been shut down.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I'm not "mad" at Disney. I just don't have the loyalty I once did. And there are a lot who feel that way. I live close enough that a monthly trip to the area is my usual pattern. And whereas 80% of my time used to be spent exclusively with Disney. I'm at about 40% now. And I will very rarely spend money outside of my AP cost and a few snacks or drinks at the parks. And that's not because I can't afford it. It's because the quality and value are no longer there. There is a reason alternate attractions and food options are popping up all over 535, I Drive and Turkey Lake.

Habits and perceptions can change on a dime. And what one day is "the place to go" - a month or two later - no longer is. To keep this in perspective, I'm not saying that suddenly people are going to stop going to Disney. I'm just reiterating that the "connection" to Disney is not what it once was. And probably will never be again. Even the vloggers who started out as Disney, Disney, Disney, Disney......are now Disney, Uni, Legoland, Disney, Icon, Sea World, Disney, Uni.

Not only that, by dumping magic express they WDW is basically saying go ahead, take your rental car off site and eat at Joe's Crab Shack.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I had to cancel a national park visit last summer after the lodges were shut down.

That sounds like a relaxing vacation. Places where you can get off the grid a bit seem more appealing than ever.

Not only that, by dumping magic express they WDW is basically saying go ahead, take your rental car off site and eat at Joe's Crab Shack.

Or a short Uber trip. You don't even have to go off property to spot the difference. The non-Disney places at Springs (even a select few within the parks) are of better quality. I prefer Shula's over Le Cellier and Polite Pig over Flametree. Yak-N-Yeti over Kona.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

That sounds like a relaxing vacation. Places where you can get off the grid a bit seem more appealing than ever.




Or a short Uber trip. You don't even have to go off property to spot the difference. The non-Disney places at Springs (even a select few within the parks) are of better quality. I prefer Shula's over Le Cellier and Polite Pig over Flametree. Yak-N-Yeti over Kona.

We made up for last year this summer. We stayed in the park at Zion and Bryce Canyon. In Zion we had zero wifi, zero cell service and that was the way for a lot of driving in southern Utah. It was great to be unplugged, and I highly recommend it.

 

[scoobygirl39541]

I think most people are trying to recover their 2020 vacations the best they can and after that, they're out. Maybe not out permanently, but out long enough to not make it meaningful for future generations. I think the rest of this year and especially October/holidays will have wdw singing and dancing at how amazing they're doing. However, they're going to be hurting in 2022 and especially future generations.

Obviously I'm a HUGE Disney nut (AP/DVC) who had planned MANY Disney vacations for people and encouraged people to go. I'm supposed to help my cousins plan a first visit in June, and I'm thinking of trying to persuade them to go somewhere else. I just can't see it being worth it for their family. 2 kids, ages 5 and 3. Crazy to discourage right? Up charges, no princess makeovers, no character dining, no character meets at all, no parades, limited experiences everywhere, paid fastpass for SOME rides then an additional fee on top, limited capacity restaurants so impossible to get reservations, no free magical express, they have to lug all their luggage from the airport... I mean I can just keep going on and on. How can I "sell" a trip to these people? It's at the point where I really don't want to put my cousins through is.

That begins the downfall for Disney IMO. People like me, starting to think like that.

 

[GinaD613]

Disney is in an interesting place. It said it essentially has too many customers visiting its parks and the customers are not spending enough. So Disney is actively looking to move up in price and shrink it’s customer base.
2. “un acquire“

and we know how well that strategy worked for DirecTV

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I think most people are trying to recover their 2020 vacations the best they can and after that, they're out. Maybe not out permanently, but out long enough to not make it meaningful for future generations. I think the rest of this year and especially October/holidays will have wdw singing and dancing at how amazing they're doing. However, they're going to be hurting in 2022 and especially future generations.

Obviously I'm a HUGE Disney nut (AP/DVC) who had planned MANY Disney vacations for people and encouraged people to go. I'm supposed to help my cousins plan a first visit in June, and I'm thinking of trying to persuade them to go somewhere else. I just can't see it being worth it for their family. 2 kids, ages 5 and 3. Crazy to discourage right? Up charges, no princess makeovers, no character dining, no character meets at all, no parades, limited experiences everywhere, paid fastpass for SOME rides then an additional fee on top, limited capacity restaurants so impossible to get reservations, no free magical express, they have to lug all their luggage from the airport... I mean I can just keep going on and on. How can I "sell" a trip to these people? It's at the point where I really don't want to put my cousins through is.

That begins the downfall for Disney IMO. People like me, starting to think like that.

You’re right. You should not be helping anyone book a Disney trip. Refer them to a travel agent with a positive attitude so they have a shot at a good time.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

This hurts Uni, SeaWorld, and Orlando in general. Or at least has the potential to. I'll still say that the majority of people visiting Orlando are going there for Disney. Once there, Uni, SeaWorld, Icon, et al fight for their share.

If Disney starts to become unaffordable for the average person (family) - then those families start opting for cruising, beach vacations, or staycations closer to home. If the visitor pie shrinks, it doesn't matter what Disney is charging. Everybody is impacted.

Universal may not be hurt as much as the others you mention. I am bringing up Universal has the theme park rights to Nintendo IPS and is one of the lands coming up for Epic Universe.

Nintendo has been a huge name for video games for 40 years starting with Donkey Kong in 1981. Nintendo in general is something multiple generations heard of. Mario, Donkey Kong, Metroid and Zelda got their starts in the 80s. Nintendo starting Mario Kart, Pokemon, and Kirby in the 90s.

Nintendo for IPS is as big as Harry Potter in my view for Universal.

I only can speak from an IP standpoint since I never went to Universal in my life.