What’s Wrong With Disney World Restaurants...

Raineman

Raineman

Well-Known Member
TheGuyThatMakesSwords said:
All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.....

I think you are getting close :). But it helps to understand the fundamental issue from the viewpoint of a "Disney Owned" Restaurant Manager....

First? That person HAS to buy into DDP, if he/she wants anything that looks like a career :). Optional? possibly for a short timer :). Far as I know, only Israel at V&A has been able to buck this, and live (thank god).

OK - Manager has "bought in" to preserve life. Now what? Long ago, there WERE separate DDP menus. No more - WDW banned this.
So - the effect.... ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP compensation ceiling. Currently? That's just about $70 per plate - PERIOD. No Manager can run their Restaurant at a loss...

But wait - there is more :) You see, ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP. So no one cares if you are using DDP or not.
ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP. And here is the problem :(. Even for CASH Customers? ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP ($70 or so per plate).

The Signature Restaurants (and their Managers), have been VERY clever over the years, to find a way around the "Menu Clip". Notice how several of these now use "enhancements"? The basic idea is to offer a "book dinner" that MAY be "enhanced" :). A good example? How to get a REAL "Surf & Turf" at a GF Restaurant that will not be named :).

Now - bigger problem for WDW.... there are a LOT of fine non-WDW owned Restaurants ON property. Shula's and Il Mulino come to mind. There are several JUST off-property. Bull & Bear comes to mind. Nope, these folks don't play well with DDP. SEVERAL do play well with TIW.

So - I like the tier suggestion - with one caveat: TIER 4 - Points plus CASH. This would allow those Managers to "Participate", stop beating the Head Chefs, preserve their carriers, and actually put something like a "whole 4LB Maine Lobster" on the menu without going broke :).

"Menu Clipping" does not need to end at the WDW owned Restaurants.... they can keep this up, and folks that actually WANT better can go off site, or to NON WDW Restaurants ON Site. MANY folks will be happy with "Clipped Offerings". For us? No real problem. We just hate to see WDW lose out to higher end non-WDW Restaurants :(. The shining star in this entire debate is V&A.... elevated by an incredible Manager that bucked the system, and won BIG TIME.

Again - All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.....
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Definitely some interesting information. I just think that there has to be a way to structure the DDP so that the food/service quality can remain at a higher level, while not penalizing the guests who do want to pay cash-and the dining credits + cash option you mentioned is a great idea for the upper tier. Would I be willing to use 1 dining credit plus $15 to get that higher priced entree that I really want? Absolutely, and if I didn’t feel like paying the extra $ that day, I’ll stick with the basics.
 
DznyGrlSD

DznyGrlSD

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
danyoung56 said:
While I have no proof (and I don't think that the assumption could even be proved), my own experience as a Disney diner for over 20 years is enough to show me that the menus have been dumbed down, while restaurants are getting more crowded and reservations are harder to get than they used to be. It seems to me to be a no-brainer that the DDP is a pretty large contributor to these trends.
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I blame FREE DDP for this issue. We had whatever the dining plan was called back in the 80's and 90's and the food and experience were all great. Post 9/11 DDP especially once they got rid of the appetizer & tip is such a waste.
 
DznyGrlSD

DznyGrlSD

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
TheGuyThatMakesSwords said:
All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.....

I think you are getting close :). But it helps to understand the fundamental issue from the viewpoint of a "Disney Owned" Restaurant Manager....

First? That person HAS to buy into DDP, if he/she wants anything that looks like a career :). Optional? possibly for a short timer :). Far as I know, only Israel at V&A has been able to buck this, and live (thank god).

OK - Manager has "bought in" to preserve life. Now what? Long ago, there WERE separate DDP menus. No more - WDW banned this.
So - the effect.... ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP compensation ceiling. Currently? That's just about $70 per plate - PERIOD. No Manager can run their Restaurant at a loss...

But wait - there is more :) You see, ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP. So no one cares if you are using DDP or not.
ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP. And here is the problem :(. Even for CASH Customers? ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP ($70 or so per plate).

The Signature Restaurants (and their Managers), have been VERY clever over the years, to find a way around the "Menu Clip". Notice how several of these now use "enhancements"? The basic idea is to offer a "book dinner" that MAY be "enhanced" :). A good example? How to get a REAL "Surf & Turf" at a GF Restaurant that will not be named :).

Now - bigger problem for WDW.... there are a LOT of fine non-WDW owned Restaurants ON property. Shula's and Il Mulino come to mind. There are several JUST off-property. Bull & Bear comes to mind. Nope, these folks don't play well with DDP. SEVERAL do play well with TIW.

So - I like the tier suggestion - with one caveat: TIER 4 - Points plus CASH. This would allow those Managers to "Participate", stop beating the Head Chefs, preserve their carriers, and actually put something like a "whole 4LB Maine Lobster" on the menu without going broke :).

"Menu Clipping" does not need to end at the WDW owned Restaurants.... they can keep this up, and folks that actually WANT better can go off site, or to NON WDW Restaurants ON Site. MANY folks will be happy with "Clipped Offerings". For us? No real problem. We just hate to see WDW lose out to higher end non-WDW Restaurants :(. The shining star in this entire debate is V&A.... elevated by an incredible Manager that bucked the system, and won BIG TIME.

Again - All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.....
Click to expand...

FASCINATING info - thank you so much for this!!
 
danyoung56

danyoung56

Well-Known Member
DznyGrlSD said:
Post 9/11 DDP especially once they got rid of the appetizer & tip is such a waste.
Click to expand...

I agree. I did the DDP once, and while it did have appetizer and tip, I still wasn't wild about the added regimentation that it imposed. Then they started cutting back, and it totally wasn't worth it for me. Adding it in as a free benefit just meant that Disney had to cut corners to make it worth it for them. As it is now even free doesn't appeal to me at all.
 
Phonedave

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
Raineman said:
So, here’s a proposal for all of the people who do not like the DDP and the perceived/actual effects on the WDW dining experience. For the DDP and Deluxe DDP that include TS credits, set different “tiers” within the plan and price accordingly. For example, tier 1 at the lowest price point would only allow you to order lower priced menu items that would be marked as tier 1. Higher tiers would have higher price points. That way, if people know that they are not interested in getting the higher priced items on the menu, they get a lower tier, and are not underpaying through the DDP for the food they are eating, as it seems like that is the biggest beef with the plan, ie people only paying $70/day through the plan but are eating $100 worth of food.
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The issue is that the restaurants get a set amount for each credit. If they get, lets say, $40 for a table service credit, then they have to keep the cost of any combination of entree and dessert on their menu below that amount. Actually it needs to be below a lower amount, somewhere around $15 most likely, in order to build in overhead and profit. That means that the restaurant needs to manage food costs to make that price point. They cannot go above that, and then charge more on the menu, because they will still loose money on the DDP sales.

Your solution would help, as would the ability for a restaurant to add entrees with an additional charge if you are on the DDP (for example, a steak could be $45 cash, or $5 if you are using a DDP credit). I doubt Disney wants to do this, because it impacts the perception of the DDP as a "pay once, and your meals are covered" plan.

-dave
 
S

spacemtnfanatic

Active Member
disney4life2008 said:
At ohana they brought out the grilled meats 20 minutes after we sat down, we hadn't even started eating the apps
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Lol - what were you waiting for? When I go to Ohana (or any similar all you can eat meat on stick restaurant) I am there to get down to business. 20 minutes, to me, is pretty standard. Were the apps not there yet or were you just letting them sit? Some folks don't touch the apps (letting them all get thrown out) waiting for the meat. If it had been 5 minutes I would say it was rushed, but 20 mins isn't bad at all. Especially for a place with high turnover and a large number of guests who are there for a food fest and want to get started.
 
Pleakley

Pleakley

Active Member
One of my favorite things to do now is to go to a Signature/better TS or lounge outside of one (ie: Territory Lounge) and just get appetizers. You can spend the same or less and imo get more/better food than with one of the $50 entrees. My theory is that because more guests are on the regular DDP than the Deluxe, they are more concerned with monetizing the entrees, therefore giving smaller portions and able to be less creative. Not that the apps can't be overpriced either, but generally I've had better luck, and some at Jiko have been just incredible.
 
disney4life2008

disney4life2008

Well-Known Member
spacemtnfanatic said:
Lol - what were you waiting for? When I go to Ohana (or any similar all you can eat meat on stick restaurant) I am there to get down to business. 20 minutes, to me, is pretty standard. Were the apps not there yet or were you just letting them sit? Some folks don't touch the apps (letting them all get thrown out) waiting for the meat. If it had been 5 minutes I would say it was rushed, but 20 mins isn't bad at all. Especially for a place with high turnover and a large number of guests who are there for a food fest and want to get started.
Click to expand...

I see your point. But that isn't me. I skip the salad, go for the apps. My issue is once they bring out the meat it's like your on a time clock and leave.
 
dieboy

dieboy

Active Member
Maybe people have a different perception of how food should be dealt with on vacation. In general there are two types of eaters.

1. Shove it down. Right now. Because we have x amount of rides to wait in line for still. They just are not concerned about food quality, they are just using it so the kids don't cry, and for fuel. So be it.
2. People who want to taste something. Normally part of their vacation is leisurely eating at good places.

I would say Disney balances that to about 80/20. The 80% being the shove it down crowd. Too be expected.

Quick Service: Really, a semi warm slice of pizza is really the expectation.
Table Service: Well ... we are talking on par with an applebees/chilis, whatever. Expectation? About that. Infact prices are not too far off either.
Better "Table Service": Some exist, though fewer in numbers.

Prices: Captive audience. Do you expect any less?

There are PLENTY of good dishes and single serve items and some good places scattered about the property. Some at the resorts, some at the parks, and more so at Disney Springs.

Part of the frustration I can see when people who like food visit.. What, 3, 4, maybe 5 days, possibly with kids? They simply won't find all the good places, items. They will probably go home thinking well .. atleast we had the dining plan .. food was meh, except that one place we went..

Not sure how this is solvable really? Maybe build a handful of cash only restaurants that are actually about eating.

Another point. Food outside of Disney is pricey, and mostly crap also. Soooo theres that. You'd have to run up a good half hour north or west to get decent food such as Bubbalou's Bodacious Bar-B-Que.

And in all honesty, it meets my expectations most of the time. Disney is just not a 'foodie' place anymore, not that it was a huge one to begin with, but it was better.

Edit:
After some thought, I wonder, is it the vacationer or the company? There are quiet a few food reviews, guides, etc floating around out there. Allot have things I have sought out and tried, and mostly liked. Do people get exhausted trying to plan their vacation to the minute and simply pencil in 'food' time, the where, and quality doesn't matter?

Also admit, my wife and I have no kids and are not young per say. My folks live well .. close to Disney. We just go wander around, check things out, no madness. Always off season, sometimes up to four times a year. So my perception of Disney probably varies greatly from a number of people. I do check out the new offerings, the reviews here and on another site or two of new foods in between visits and see i anything interests me. I don't find myself disappointed all that often with a little research ahead of time.
 
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dieboy

dieboy

Active Member
Actually one of the few times I was pretty eerm taken back, Epcot China, Nine Dragons. Wow that's an awful place. Leann Chins is significantly better and cheaper.

Also, I recall on a vacation at some point seeing some golden arches at maybe epcot or somewhere on the property. What ever happened to that?

Dang now i'm hungry for bubbalous.
 
Phonedave

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
dieboy said:
Table Service: Well ... we are talking on par with an applebees/chilis, whatever. Expectation? About that. Infact prices are not too far off either.

Prices: Captive audience. Do you expect any less?
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I don't know what Chili's you are eating at, but WDW table service restaurant prices are in no way comparable to Chili's prices around here (Northern NJ), not by a long shot. Chili's is one of our guilty pleasures. Every so often it just feels like a fajitas and margaritas night.

Now I have no problem paying a mark up for captive audience pricing, but Disney's is insane

I picked two items that Chili's is known for Ribs and Fajitas, and then compared to them two non-high-end places at WDW (i.e ribs at Whispering Canyon as opposed to ribs at Citrico's)

Full Rack of ribs dinner at Chili's - $18.99
Steak Fajitas at Chili's - $16.99

Full Rack of Ribs at Whispering Canyon - $26.00 (37% additional)
Maya Grill's Fajita Skillet - $25.99 (53% additional)

Now, I can deal with 10-15% as a captive audience mark up, but 37 to 53% for what amounts to the same food. Getting a little greedy in my book.

-dave
 
Raineman

Raineman

Well-Known Member
Lets Respect said:
The meat is like rubber
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I don’t know what type of meat or what dining establishment on WDW property you are referring to, but I’ve never had a meal at WDW where the meat was like rubber. I’ve never had a bad meal there, period. Not saying that it is impossible to have a bad meal there- that is possible even in the best restaurants on the planet- but making a blanket statement like that is kind of ridiculous.
 
L

Lets Respect

Well-Known Member
Raineman said:
I don’t know what type of meat or what dining establishment on WDW property you are referring to, but I’ve never had a meal at WDW where the meat was like rubber. I’ve never had a bad meal there, period. Not saying that it is impossible to have a bad meal there- that is possible even in the best restaurants on the planet- but making a blanket statement like that is kind of ridiculous.
Click to expand...

You are lucky
I've gagged on some of it
 
dieboy

dieboy

Active Member
Phonedave said:
I don't know what Chili's you are eating at, but WDW table service restaurant prices are in no way comparable to Chili's prices around here (Northern NJ), not by a long shot. Chili's is one of our guilty pleasures. Every so often it just feels like a fajitas and margaritas night.

Now I have no problem paying a mark up for captive audience pricing, but Disney's is insane

I picked two items that Chili's is known for Ribs and Fajitas, and then compared to them two non-high-end places at WDW (i.e ribs at Whispering Canyon as opposed to ribs at Citrico's)

Full Rack of ribs dinner at Chili's - $18.99
Steak Fajitas at Chili's - $16.99

Full Rack of Ribs at Whispering Canyon - $26.00 (37% additional)
Maya Grill's Fajita Skillet - $25.99 (53% additional)

Now, I can deal with 10-15% as a captive audience mark up, but 37 to 53% for what amounts to the same food. Getting a little greedy in my book.

-dave
Click to expand...


Ha, well more referring to the service and food. Pricing .. as I mentioned, captive audience. I never said they were not greedy son's of ... s. And would agree with you there.

There is kind of a price cap they butt up against. It will be probably four of five years before the sit down chain restaurants even get part way there on pricing. However, once they are there .. you bet your last dollar Disney will hike right to the top of the next 'plausible' cap. So I guess the good .. highly unlikely that 37% or the 53% will waiver much at all over the next few years.
 

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