What’s Wrong With Disney World Restaurants...

[Disnutz311]

Maybe we all agree to disagree

why can you book dining 180 days in advance anyway?

Ain’t nobody got time for that...

 

[jaklgreen]

Health codes say it can't be donated. I understand this is how it has to be. It is just the ridiculous over preparation of food. It's not a problem exclusive to Disney.

I agree but you get that guy that is there right before close and he wants his dang prime rib. He is not going to listen to "sorry, we ran out". This really a no win situation with the way the public is.

 

[Tink76]

Now don’t get me wrong, Disney World has some great restaurants but I wanted to open up a topic asking a few simple questions. What things would you change in the restaurants? Is it quality, experience, variety? Are they perfect in your eyes? What would you like to see next?

For this excersise in opinion, let’s keep it to full service restaurants...

I am in the Food & Beverage industry and I like to explore peoples thoughts to help improve said industry overall. Anything you are willing to share is intriguing and helpful.

Cheers!

My husband and I talk about this a lot. The quality compared to price had dropped dramatically. In the 80’s and 90’s the food offered was great quality and a great selection. I have pictures from our Easter feast at the Grand Floridian’s 1900 Park Fair. Prime cuts of beef, Ham, and Turkey plus all the side dishes. It was Grand buffet for sure and we didn’t mind paying the $25-35 a head for it.
Today when you look at the price and what is on the menu it’s embarrassing. I just wonder if the Disney Meal Plans has had a negative affect on what was once a great place to find a very good meal.

 

[disney4life2008]

Overall I really enjoy the restaurants of WDW. But if there was one thing I'd change, it's the pacing. I've had more than one meal where the appetizer gets to the table before bread, before wine, way too quickly. And then the entre' takes 20 to 30 minutes. A good waiter will give you bread, the appetizer a few minutes later, and then the entre' a few minutes after the appetizer is finished. It seems like sometimes stuff comes out and gets served to speed you along, and the enjoyment of the meal suffers.

At ohana they brought out the grilled meats 20 minutes after we sat down, we hadn't even started eating the apps

 

[aladdin2007]

At ohana they brought out the grilled meats 20 minutes after we sat down, we hadn't even started eating the apps

I've noticed Ohana can be hit and miss with pacing, sometimes they rush you, other times it takes forever.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

I've been meaning to reply to this, but I keep getting caught up in other things. Still, food quality and dining experience is becoming a sore spot for us and was especially evident during our last trip (Dec 2017).

I was reading an interview with AJ from DFB and even she noted that there's a good chance that a restaurant she says she loves could very well be bad by the time you visit just because of consistency issues...some of which she attributed to chefs being shifted around. I know lots of people try and explain this away with "every restaurant can have a bad day," but that's not OK. If a restaurant were in the real world and as inconsistent as some of the WDW TS spots, it's highly unlikely it would survive. Consistently good food and experiences is kind of the backbone for success in a normal restaurant situation.

I think this goes beyond DDP. I think Disney knows they have a captive audience who doesn't want to leave to eat. So, they keep seeing how much they can cut on food quality/food costs and possibly even good staff and then boost the consumer price tag. So, they've found this perfect way to get people to pay more for less, which means more $ for them. I get that there's waste and all, but we've seen some of our favorite better quality items be cut from menus and buffets while prices continue to climb. They are a business, so I understand from that angle...i.e. how to cut costs and boost profits.

Last trip we had a few speed dining TS experiences that were pretty horrible (like previous posters, 'Ohana dinner was one of them), we had one 8am breakfast/brunch where it was pretty clear food was being recycled from the dinner buffet (and if it wasn't, how could the items that were decent at dinner 7 days earlier be so horrible when served at breakfast?), a buffet and family style meal that seem to get a lot of good reviews that were just downright horrible, a $54 steak that wasn't cooked as ordered, an hour+ wait past our ADR time that killed our evening plans and transportation, and a whole lot of mediocre food where it just feels foolish trying to use that "it's Disney and it's expensive" argument. I get that it's Disney, I get that it's expensive, and I get that places can have a bad day...but this is my money, my vacation time and with our experiences, I can choose to avoid what I now think is a rip off for the quality and price.

The question really is how long until this comes back to bite them? Their bread and butter are first time/once in a lifetime guests who have no past knowledge of quality/cost, so as long as they've got that part of the market, providing a consistent experience for the repeat guest isn't as important. Sure, we can write reviews and complain, but I've done all of this and it doesn't do a darn thing. I can scream until I'm blue in the face that the food quality at many of the character buffets is shameful, but tell that to a parent taking their preschooler for the first time who wants to eat with the fab 5? Yeah...Disney is going to win. So, I'm not seeing any end in site for the decline in food experiences. My only solution (aside from giving Disney trips a break for a while)- and it's our personal solution, is cutting out TS meals, cutting extra park days we used to add on to try other dining experiences, and supplementing some QS meals and snacks with things we can bring into the parks that we bought offsite.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I usually just hit the counter service places and avoid the table service restaurants. I don't think they provide quality for the price. Generally eat off site for the most part.

 

[docdebbi]

I've been meaning to reply to this, but I keep getting caught up in other things. Still, food quality and dining experience is becoming a sore spot for us and was especially evident during our last trip (Dec 2017).

I was reading an interview with AJ from DFB and even she noted that there's a good chance that a restaurant she says she loves could very well be bad by the time you visit just because of consistency issues...some of which she attributed to chefs being shifted around. I know lots of people try and explain this away with "every restaurant can have a bad day," but that's not OK. If a restaurant were in the real world and as inconsistent as some of the WDW TS spots, it's highly unlikely it would survive. Consistently good food and experiences is kind of the backbone for success in a normal restaurant situation.

I think this goes beyond DDP. I think Disney knows they have a captive audience who doesn't want to leave to eat. So, they keep seeing how much they can cut on food quality/food costs and possibly even good staff and then boost the consumer price tag. So, they've found this perfect way to get people to pay more for less, which means more $ for them. I get that there's waste and all, but we've seen some of our favorite better quality items be cut from menus and buffets while prices continue to climb. They are a business, so I understand from that angle...i.e. how to cut costs and boost profits.

Last trip we had a few speed dining TS experiences that were pretty horrible (like previous posters, 'Ohana dinner was one of them), we had one 8am breakfast/brunch where it was pretty clear food was being recycled from the dinner buffet (and if it wasn't, how could the items that were decent at dinner 7 days earlier be so horrible when served at breakfast?), a buffet and family style meal that seem to get a lot of good reviews that were just downright horrible, a $54 steak that wasn't cooked as ordered, an hour+ wait past our ADR time that killed our evening plans and transportation, and a whole lot of mediocre food where it just feels foolish trying to use that "it's Disney and it's expensive" argument. I get that it's Disney, I get that it's expensive, and I get that places can have a bad day...but this is my money, my vacation time and with our experiences, I can choose to avoid what I now think is a rip off for the quality and price.

The question really is how long until this comes back to bite them? Their bread and butter are first time/once in a lifetime guests who have no past knowledge of quality/cost, so as long as they've got that part of the market, providing a consistent experience for the repeat guest isn't as important. Sure, we can write reviews and complain, but I've done all of this and it doesn't do a darn thing. I can scream until I'm blue in the face that the food quality at many of the character buffets is shameful, but tell that to a parent taking their preschooler for the first time who wants to eat with the fab 5? Yeah...Disney is going to win. So, I'm not seeing any end in site for the decline in food experiences. My only solution (aside from giving Disney trips a break for a while)- and it's our personal solution, is cutting out TS meals, cutting extra park days we used to add on to try other dining experiences, and supplementing some QS meals and snacks with things we can bring into the parks that we bought offsite.

sadly i agree with every word you wrote

 

[Raineman]

Is it possible to read a thread in this forum without people moaning and complaining about the DDP? Show me concrete, documented proof that the DDP is having a direct effect on food quality and I will believe it. IMO, even if the DDP was not an option, some people would still complain that the food is too expensive for the quality, because Disney would still have the prices where they are now, or very close to it. If the QS options in the parks had a similar variety of choices that the QS “food courts” at the resorts do, it would maybe give people who feel they always have to go to the TS restaurants a less expensive option but still decent variety.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that the majority of people who eat in the parks are not looking for a 5 Star dining experience-they just want to eat and continue on with their day at the park. If you are a “foodie”, then you will not be satisfied with anything you eat on WDW property. I will admit, the prices at most TS locations is at 5 star levels, but most WDW visitors are aware of this and have budgeted for it; the ones who haven’t, eat their main meal of the day off property. Anyone who thinks that things are going to change at this point is bordering on delusional, so your options are: pay the price and eat on property, or don’t. It may be a sad reality to some of you, but no amount of whining or complaining is gonna change that.
If anyone can present me with another major American theme park where the food quality is better at a lower price point than WDW, I would love to hear about it.

 

[aladdin2007]

Is it possible to read a thread in this forum without people moaning and complaining about the DDP? Show me concrete, documented proof that the DDP is having a direct effect on food quality and I will believe it. IMO, even if the DDP was not an option, some people would still complain that the food is too expensive for the quality, because Disney would still have the prices where they are now, or very close to it. If the QS options in the parks had a similar variety of choices that the QS “food courts” at the resorts do, it would maybe give people who feel they always have to go to the TS restaurants a less expensive option but still decent variety.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that the majority of people who eat in the parks are not looking for a 5 Star dining experience-they just want to eat and continue on with their day at the park. If you are a “foodie”, then you will not be satisfied with anything you eat on WDW property. I will admit, the prices at most TS locations is at 5 star levels, but most WDW visitors are aware of this and have budgeted for it; the ones who haven’t, eat their main meal of the day off property. Anyone who thinks that things are going to change at this point is bordering on delusional, so your options are: pay the price and eat on property, or don’t. It may be a sad reality to some of you, but no amount of whining or complaining is gonna change that.
If anyone can present me with another major American theme park where the food quality is better at a lower price point than WDW, I would love to hear about it.

Certainly welcome to think as you like as people do see these things from different views. I can tell you from experience that before DDP existed the majority of Disney restaurants were far superior. Chefs could do as they wanted, menus choices were better, prices were more affordable (of course too it was a different time frame, 1990's etc) and food quality was top notch across property. Now they are rationed, chefs dont have much say so, and ingredients are all purchased property wide for most locations and just tweaked here and there, while prices are over bloated and you get very little for it. Many of them dont even offer pepper or butter or ketchup etc without having to ask outright for it because Disney doesnt want the expense. (have noticed that has eased up a little bit though recently). In general one example being Le Cellier, same as lot of the locations now being one all day menu, whereas they use to have a good lunch menu at more affordable worth it prices. The meager menu there now near is $50 a head, and its not worth half that. Just an example. Not only that but the DDP has also turned some nicer locations into kid zoos, such as California Grill. Whereas that never use to be the case. But thats just my own experienced view on it.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

Nothing's wrong with WDW restaurants. They do an amazing job and cater to every price point. You want cheap food? They got it. You want a $600 amazing meal? They got that too.

I'm always impressed by their offerings - even at the buffets.

 

[Disnutz311]

Nothing's wrong with WDW restaurants. They do an amazing job and cater to every price point. You want cheap food? They got it. You want a $600 amazing meal? They got that too.

I'm always impressed by their offerings - even at the buffets.

I think your right in a way. The problem is the stuff in between the Cheap and $600. It needs work.

 

[danyoung56]

Show me concrete, documented proof that the DDP is having a direct effect on food quality and I will believe it.

While I have no proof (and I don't think that the assumption could even be proved), my own experience as a Disney diner for over 20 years is enough to show me that the menus have been dumbed down, while restaurants are getting more crowded and reservations are harder to get than they used to be. It seems to me to be a no-brainer that the DDP is a pretty large contributor to these trends.

 

[Dutch Inn '76]

While I have no proof (and I don't think that the assumption could even be proved), my own experience as a Disney diner for over 20 years is enough to show me that the menus have been dumbed down, while restaurants are getting more crowded and reservations are harder to get than they used to be. It seems to me to be a no-brainer that the DDP is a pretty large contributor to these trends.

If anything, the DDP should be keeping people out of the great restaurants at WDW. Most of them are 2 credits, and the masses don't do that.

If you think that The Mouse has reduced quality at restaurants at WDW, it's because they thought they could do it and still provide a worthwhile and profitable, service. I for one, do not think they have dumbed down the menus or the food quality.

 

[Raineman]

While I have no proof (and I don't think that the assumption could even be proved), my own experience as a Disney diner for over 20 years is enough to show me that the menus have been dumbed down, while restaurants are getting more crowded and reservations are harder to get than they used to be. It seems to me to be a no-brainer that the DDP is a pretty large contributor to these trends.

I agree with many things you said, but I am of the opinion that food quality/selection would have gone down while prices went up even if the DDP had never been instituted. Look at how many threads on here revolve around the diminishing value for the price paid for everything at WDW, not just the food, whether actual or perceived. If dining was the only area with this condition, you could point at the DDP as being a major culprit. I think the overall WDW management philosophy of “give them less for more $” is the biggest culprit. Now, do I believe that we WDW guests are getting less for more, in dining and everywhere else? To a degree, but not nearly as much as the naysayers here will swear by.

 

[OneofThree]

. . . I am of the opinion that food quality/selection would have gone down while prices went up even if the DDP had never been instituted.

I agree with this, but maintain as others do that DDP has negatively impacted quality and menu diversity, as both of these now have to "fit" within the design of the program.

 

[Raineman]

So, here’s a proposal for all of the people who do not like the DDP and the perceived/actual effects on the WDW dining experience. For the DDP and Deluxe DDP that include TS credits, set different “tiers” within the plan and price accordingly. For example, tier 1 at the lowest price point would only allow you to order lower priced menu items that would be marked as tier 1. Higher tiers would have higher price points. That way, if people know that they are not interested in getting the higher priced items on the menu, they get a lower tier, and are not underpaying through the DDP for the food they are eating, as it seems like that is the biggest beef with the plan, ie people only paying $70/day through the plan but are eating $100 worth of food.

 

[OneofThree]

That way, if people know that they are not interested in getting the higher priced items on the menu, they get a lower tier, and are not underpaying through the DDP for the food they are eating, as it seems like that is the biggest beef with the plan, ie people only paying $70/day through the plan but are eating $100 worth of food.

TBH, my criticism is really isolated to the way the presence of the plan effects Disney restaurant operations. I never really thought of it the way you state it here, but after reading it the way you lay it out I'd be lying if I didn't say it reminded me a bit of the ACA.

 

[larryz]

I doubt some of the "special treats" are so special. Once when I was at F&W I was near the convention hall in EPCOT (I was waiting for it to open - they were holding the US finals for the Bocuse D'Or there that year) and I watched them stock the Morocco ? (maybe) cart with baklava. I watched them take the pre-made, frozen sheet out of retail boxes (like the kind you get at Restaurant Depot) and load them on to half sheet pans and stack them into the cart for transport. Not so special.

I have friends and family in the food industry - on the production side. Some producers cannot ramp up production enough, and if they cannot find a co-packer, then they cannot match demand. Or sometimes, some places will not buy from you if you use a co-packer. Places like Trader Joe's and Wal-Mart and both a blessing and a curse to manufacturers. They can make your product take off like gangbusters, but if you are not prepared to ramp up production, and you cannot secure the capital funding to do so, then you fall flat on your face. I suspect that winning a contract at WDW is similar.


-dave

Just like that big bowl of "homemade" soup from Granny Sysco...

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

So, here’s a proposal for all of the people who do not like the DDP and the perceived/actual effects on the WDW dining experience. For the DDP and Deluxe DDP that include TS credits, set different “tiers” within the plan and price accordingly. For example, tier 1 at the lowest price point would only allow you to order lower priced menu items that would be marked as tier 1. Higher tiers would have higher price points. That way, if people know that they are not interested in getting the higher priced items on the menu, they get a lower tier, and are not underpaying through the DDP for the food they are eating, as it seems like that is the biggest beef with the plan, ie people only paying $70/day through the plan but are eating $100 worth of food.

All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.....

I think you are getting close . But it helps to understand the fundamental issue from the viewpoint of a "Disney Owned" Restaurant Manager....

First? That person HAS to buy into DDP, if he/she wants anything that looks like a career . Optional? possibly for a short timer . Far as I know, only Israel at V&A has been able to buck this, and live (thank god).

OK - Manager has "bought in" to preserve life. Now what? Long ago, there WERE separate DDP menus. No more - WDW banned this.
So - the effect.... ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP compensation ceiling. Currently? That's just about $70 per plate - PERIOD. No Manager can run their Restaurant at a loss...

But wait - there is more You see, ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP. So no one cares if you are using DDP or not.
ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP. And here is the problem . Even for CASH Customers? ANY Main Menu offering MUST fit into a 2 point DDP ($70 or so per plate).

The Signature Restaurants (and their Managers), have been VERY clever over the years, to find a way around the "Menu Clip". Notice how several of these now use "enhancements"? The basic idea is to offer a "book dinner" that MAY be "enhanced" . A good example? How to get a REAL "Surf & Turf" at a GF Restaurant that will not be named .

Now - bigger problem for WDW.... there are a LOT of fine non-WDW owned Restaurants ON property. Shula's and Il Mulino come to mind. There are several JUST off-property. Bull & Bear comes to mind. Nope, these folks don't play well with DDP. SEVERAL do play well with TIW.

So - I like the tier suggestion - with one caveat: TIER 4 - Points plus CASH. This would allow those Managers to "Participate", stop beating the Head Chefs, preserve their carriers, and actually put something like a "whole 4LB Maine Lobster" on the menu without going broke .

"Menu Clipping" does not need to end at the WDW owned Restaurants.... they can keep this up, and folks that actually WANT better can go off site, or to NON WDW Restaurants ON Site. MANY folks will be happy with "Clipped Offerings". For us? No real problem. We just hate to see WDW lose out to higher end non-WDW Restaurants . The shining star in this entire debate is V&A.... elevated by an incredible Manager that bucked the system, and won BIG TIME.

Again - All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.....