Were the lines really shorter back in the day or do we imagine this?

[Goofyernmost]

On the contrary, I feel it's affected me for the better.



Your assumption is incorrect. Of course I use standby lines, but only if the advertised wait time is acceptable to me (generally thirty minutes or less). As I said, I'm not going to question your experiences, and you really shouldn't question mine. I am not posting here to change anyone's mind, but to represent a different viewpoint from what appears to be the prevailing one in this forum. Some of us like FP and don't want to see a return to the days before it existed.

Then it has affected you. There was no such thing as posted wait times before. You got in line, the line kept moving and you were very quickly moved to the front of the line and on the ride. Since you are unaware of just what it was like before, I guess that you either can reject what some of us are telling you or you can understand that it is drastically different now with FP. Even though many of us HATE FP we still have to use it, because if we didn't we would never get to see anywhere near the number of attractions that we use to just get in line for and ride. I don't think you have to worry about it. There is no way that they can get rid of it now that they have spent millions convincing the public what a wonderful thing that it is. So it is safe, for now. I don't expect to change your mind about whether or not you like FP, what I am trying to convey is that it is a system of smoke and mirrors and as long as you don't realize what it was like before then you will be happy with it. Enjoy!

 

[Maeryk]

I was there before it existed, and after. I don't notice an appreciable difference in wait times, factoring in the much higher part attendance now. Without FP you'd just be starting a lot further back in line, that's all. Yes, the math has been explained of people who now (might) be getting in line who would not have before, but I think that's a negligible effect. The ride holds X number of people per hour. If it's 2000, and 4000 people want to ride it, you are two hours from that point.. whether you are person 4000 in a single line, or person 2000 in a standby line with another 2000 in the FP line.

For me, FP is a better choice, because it allows me to pick a few rides, knowing I'll be able to get them in. YMMV. Not everyone does the parks in a loop, riding every single ride. For those of us who skip things, and don't get turnt if we don't get on every ride in the park, it's a good system.

 

[LittleBuford]

Then it has affected you.

Indeed. That's why I wrote "I feel it's affected me for the better."

There was no such thing as posted wait times before.

Actually, there were, though they were posted collectively on chalkboards in areas such as the MK hub:

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1680&bih=908&tbm=bks&ei=dffHW6SACK64ggfq8IboBw&q=+wait+times+"walt+disney+world"+"chalkboard"&oq=+wait+times+"walt+disney+world"+"chalkboard"&gs_l=psy-ab.3...2465.2465.0.2743.1.1.0.0.0.0.78.78.1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.EZ26Y1lGgDk

Since you are unaware of just what it was like before, I guess that you either can reject what some of us are telling you or you can understand that it is drastically different now with FP.

Why do you keep assuming things? I visited WDW in 1991 as a child and in 1996 as a teenager. I won't pretend to remember much from the first trip, but the second certainly involved many, many long waits.

I don't expect to change your mind about whether or now you like FP, what I am trying to convey is that it is a system of smoke and mirrors and as long as you don't realize what it was like before then you will be happy with it.

I'm not the only one who has experienced both systems and prefers the current one. If it makes you feel better to think that we FP fans have all been duped somehow, by all means tell yourself that.

Enjoy!

Thank you, I will!

 

[LittleBuford]

The search function on this website is very handy. I found a bunch of threads from the early 2000s discussing wait times and Fastpass. They show that A) long and slow-moving queues did exist before FP, and B) most of the people posting here back then felt that FP resulted in shorter wait times overall.

Below are some of the threads I found, in chronological order. None of them date from before the introduction of FP, but they do refer to older wait times.

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/wait-times-in-spring-break.6115/

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/what-do-you-think-of-the-fastpass-system.8852/ (Check out the poll!)

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass.24981/

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass-issues.65340/ (The earliest thread I could find in which several people are less positive about FP.)

 

[Lensman]

The search function on this website is very handy. I found a bunch of threads from the early 2000s discussing wait times and Fastpass. They show that A) long and slow-moving queues did exist before FP, and B) most of the people posting here back then felt that FP resulted in shorter wait times overall.

Below are some of the threads I found, in chronological order. None of them date from before the introduction of FP, but they do refer to older wait times.

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/wait-times-in-spring-break.6115/

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/what-do-you-think-of-the-fastpass-system.8852/ (Check out the poll!)

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass.24981/

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass-issues.65340/ (The earliest thread I could find in which several people are less positive about FP.)

Thanks for finding these old threads! They provide an interesting historical perspective and I really enjoyed reading them. I'm actually happy to see that we can have fun arguing about the same (or very similar) topic for 15 years - especially when most of the justification is from individual experiences.

I actually miss the days of paper Fastpasses. I know a lot of other folks here on the forums do as well. I wonder what we would find from the threads discussing Fastpass+? I suspect less people like that one. I probably liked the old paper Fastpass system because it required a little bit of thinking and technique to use it - the need to come up with a plan for which rides to get Fastpasses for and which standby line rides to interleave with those. And navigating that dance increased my enjoyment of the experience.

 

[BraveGirl]

The search function on this website is very handy. I found a bunch of threads from the early 2000s discussing wait times and Fastpass. They show that A) long and slow-moving queues did exist before FP, and B) most of the people posting here back then felt that FP resulted in shorter wait times overall.

Below are some of the threads I found, in chronological order. None of them date from before the introduction of FP, but they do refer to older wait times.

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/wait-times-in-spring-break.6115/

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/what-do-you-think-of-the-fastpass-system.8852/ (Check out the poll!)

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass.24981/

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/fastpass-issues.65340/ (The earliest thread I could find in which several people are less positive about FP.)

Interesting to see the early discussions of FP! I will point out though, that those are talking about paper fastpasses, which I would say were far superior to the FP+ system. Having recently been to DL which still uses paper FPs, I was reminded about how much better they are and how many more rides you are able to do in a day when you plan well with paper FPs. I think FP+ is awful, having to book your rides 60 days out takes all the magic out of it, increases the hot ticket wait times exponentially, and creates lines at rides that should have them (since people have no choice but to pick a FP for a third tier ride, now the regular riders need to wait while the FPs load...).

The DL/old WDW system is the best - get your FP, ride some other smaller attractions, return and use your FP, repeat, repeat, repeat all day. My kids and I were able to ride almost every ride in DL while waiting on zero lines in one day during the holidays - we would never have been able to do this in MK.

 

[kong1802]

I much prefer the old FP. Don't like the posted wait? Well, grab a ticket and come back in a few hours. It kept the lines from getting too long, and redistributed guests elsewhere.

The problem is, FP- couldn't be monetized. FP+ is ripe with upsell opportunities....

If grabbing all the FP's early in the AM was the issue, they could have just limited the quantity produced per hour.

But let's be clear, FP+ was not built at all for the RD crowd. It was built for the 7 Seas Lagoon stayin crowd.....IMO

 

[Lensman]

But let's be clear, FP+ was not built at all for the RD crowd. It was built for the 7 Seas Lagoon stayin crowd.....IMO

You've mentioned RD twice in this thread and I couldn't infer what you meant in either case and search hasn't helped, nor has looking in either of the two Disney abbreviation lists. Would you enlighten me?

Also calling @MisterPenguin to add this to your list of (un)common abbreviations. Thanks!

Edited to add: Do you mean runDisney? If so, would you mind expanding on the rationale for your last statement and what differentiates the two groups you mention? Thanks!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Also calling @MisterPenguin to add this to your list of (un)common abbreviations. Thanks!

Rowdy Disneyites added!

 

[kong1802]

You've mentioned RD twice in this thread and I couldn't infer what you meant in either case and search hasn't helped, nor has looking in either of the two Disney abbreviation lists. Would you enlighten me?

Also calling @MisterPenguin to add this to your list of (un)common abbreviations. Thanks!

Edited to add: Do you mean runDisney? If so, would you mind expanding on the rationale for your last statement and what differentiates the two groups you mention? Thanks!

Sorry, I get too carried away with the abrevs sometimes (see what I did there?)

RD - Rope Drop. I'm probably using it wrong, I'm sure.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

Maybe it's because all of my childhood trips were over spring break or around 4th of July, but I recall the lines before FP to be downright awful. We started going in 1985, went pretty much every year until we moved to FL in the early 90s, which meant going more often... although, those were usually single park day trip visits. I have vivid memories of wait times because my dad always griped about it from beginning to end. 45 min for Space Mountain right at park opening...80 min for BTMRR mid afternoon...75 min for POTC late afternoon...150 min for Imagination mid afternoon...GMR 65min...and so on. I think we rode 7-8 rides total on my first trip to MK as a kid. FP (the original incarnation) made a world of difference in our visits. We more than doubled what we could do in a day. Now that we've been on this FP+ stuff for a few years and revisiting the old FP at DLR a few years ago, I see pros and cons to both...but both are also better than the lines I remember from my childhood.

 

[LittleBuford]

Thanks for finding these old threads! They provide an interesting historical perspective and I really enjoyed reading them. I'm actually happy to see that we can have fun arguing about the same (or very similar) topic for 15 years - especially when most of the justification is from individual experiences.

I actually miss the days of paper Fastpasses. I know a lot of other folks here on the forums do as well. I wonder what we would find from the threads discussing Fastpass+? I suspect less people like that one. I probably liked the old paper Fastpass system because it required a little bit of thinking and technique to use it - the need to come up with a plan for which rides to get Fastpasses for and which standby line rides to interleave with those. And navigating that dance increased my enjoyment of the experience.

Interesting to see the early discussions of FP! I will point out though, that those are talking about paper fastpasses, which I would say were far superior to the FP+ system. Having recently been to DL which still uses paper FPs, I was reminded about how much better they are and how many more rides you are able to do in a day when you plan well with paper FPs. I think FP+ is awful, having to book your rides 60 days out takes all the magic out of it, increases the hot ticket wait times exponentially, and creates lines at rides that should have them (since people have no choice but to pick a FP for a third tier ride, now the regular riders need to wait while the FPs load...).

The DL/old WDW system is the best - get your FP, ride some other smaller attractions, return and use your FP, repeat, repeat, repeat all day. My kids and I were able to ride almost every ride in DL while waiting on zero lines in one day during the holidays - we would never have been able to do this in MK.

I'm glad you both enjoyed the threads!

I agree that things are complicated somewhat by the FP vs. FP+ issue, but what prompted me to find those threads was the more general claims made here about the pre-FP era. Those claims do not accord with my own memory and experiences, but none of us is free of bias, and I thought I could gain a more accurate and objective picture by seeing what people closer to the time in question felt. It's clear that most of them heartily approved of FP and that today's celebratory perception of the "old days" is tinged with a heavy dose of nostalgia.

As for the switch from paper FP to FP+, I'm a big fan of the latter. I have an OCD personality and really enjoy planning in advance; the paper system (which I still have to endure at Disneyland Paris) leaves me far more stressed. But I'd take either system over nothing any day.

 

[kelknight84]

I've been going since the 80's and yes I remember waiting awhile for rides but so was everyone else. The walkways, stores, and restaurants were not as crowded because people were in lines. Even though there was waiting you were constantly in motion and the waits never seemed that long even though they were. Now you stand in one spot for an eternity. I do prefer FP+ to FP because I'm pretty techy and always rack up 4-7 more after our original 3, I don't have to get to the parks early, and I can stay with the family instead of running around like a crazy person. But ultimately I do remember being able to do way more re-rides back in the day where now all the big rides are one and done because I'm not about that waiting life anymore.

 

[Minnie1976]

Before fastpass a lot of the attractions had 2 sides where you could pick left or right to enter an attraction. Now one side is standby which turns out to be long while the other side has a lot less people because of fastpass. Walt Disney’s ideas worked good until these people started with fastpass. They also need to look at the magic kingdom to find out why it is so popular and how the attractions are pretty close. A lot of the other parks’ attractions are very spread out.

 

[LittleBuford]

They also need to look at the magic kingdom to find out why it is so popular and how the attractions are pretty close. A lot of the other parks’ attractions are very spread out.

I don't think there's much they can do at this point about the Magic Kingdom's density and popularity. The first is an irreversible characteristic of that park, while the second is not a problem from Disney's perspective.

 

[Roakor]

I was there before it existed, and after. I don't notice an appreciable difference in wait times, factoring in the much higher part attendance now. Without FP you'd just be starting a lot further back in line, that's all. Yes, the math has been explained of people who now (might) be getting in line who would not have before, but I think that's a negligible effect. The ride holds X number of people per hour. If it's 2000, and 4000 people want to ride it, you are two hours from that point.. whether you are person 4000 in a single line, or person 2000 in a standby line with another 2000 in the FP line.

For me, FP is a better choice, because it allows me to pick a few rides, knowing I'll be able to get them in. YMMV. Not everyone does the parks in a loop, riding every single ride. For those of us who skip things, and don't get turnt if we don't get on every ride in the park, it's a good system.

FassPass works great for people who only want to ride a few rides a day, and have the time to come back multiple days(or visit multiple times a year) I do not have that luxury. A typical vist for me would be 2 days at magic kindom and one at each of the others, with partial days on arrival and departure to maybe squeeze something in. I also only visit about once every 2-3 years. Last visit we had to skip a couple of rides because we couldn't get fasspasses and simply didn't have the time to wait 100+ min in standby. It was busy but not overly crowded, By contrast I went in 2009 during spring break when they still had the paper fasspasses, which you could only get day of visit. MK was at capacity they were starting to limit who could get into the park and yet we had no problem ridding every ride in the park. most waits were between 30-45 min.

FassPass is working great for Disney, its getting people to plan longer trips. They spend less time in the parks each day and just come back multiple days so they can use fasspasses instead of waiting in standby. Once the fasspass are used many guest will leave to spend more time at the resort (and spend more money) or do other activities around WDW (again more money). The longer they can keep you on property the more money they make, this has always been the goal of WDW. People are stretching a 1 day visit to a park out to 2,3,4 days so they can use their fasspass then leave and do something else (aka spend more money some place else). Fasspass isn't about making things better for the guest its about making money for Disney. Oringally it was about getting people out of lines and into stores (to spend more money), which I don't think ever really worked. Now I feel its more about getting people to plan longer trips so they can uses fasspasses on more attractions and avoid ridiculous standby lines which the fasspasses have created. Longer vacations = more money.

When you had shorter standby lines on capacity days before the current fasspass system then you do now on non cpacity days with the current fasspass system you can't say the only reason lines are longer is because more people are going to the parks.

They have also started to experiment with selling extra fasspass, if that ever becomes wide spread I will start planning more trips to DisneyLand instead or maybe one of the parks over seas......

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Simple answer to OP: Yes, I think we waited in long lines back in l977 when I first visited WDw. But the difference was that Everyone else was in the same boat! We all had to wait to ride what we wanted to. We just did it. We struck up conversations with other people, or the kids played games with other kids. We didn't know any better, so we just waited.
Then...…...came fast passes!

 

[Maeryk]

Simple answer to OP: Yes, I think we waited in long lines back in l977 when I first visited WDw. But the difference was that Everyone else was in the same boat! We all had to wait to ride what we wanted to. We just did it. We struck up conversations with other people, or the kids played games with other kids. We didn't know any better, so we just waited.
Then...…...came fast passes!

Uhh.. people with fast pass are waiting too. It's not like it becomes walk on whenever you want.

The attendance has been steadily increasing for the last two decades. That is fact. And Disney only has so much space to build queues.. especially covered ones. I guess we could have the Six Flags experience.. three hour waits in the sun, instead?

I am going to err on the side of "nobody is spending extra nights to fast pass one ride" and lean towards "Disney, with stay and play packages, has made it cheaper to stay longer".

 

[LittleBuford]

Last visit we had to skip a couple of rides because we couldn't get fasspasses and simply didn't have the time to wait 100+ min in standby. It was busy but not overly crowded, By contrast I went in 2009 during spring break when they still had the paper fasspasses, which you could only get day of visit. MK was at capacity they were starting to limit who could get into the park and yet we had no problem ridding every ride in the park. most waits were between 30-45 min.

This may have been addressed in past posts and threads that I missed, but is there any evidence that, for any one attraction, more Fastpasses are being distributed now than in the days of the paper variety? I know that there are a greater number of attractions that have FP, but has the number of daily FPs per ride actually gone up?

 

[TrojanUSC]

Attractions hosts are trained to take 20 people from the standby line for every 80 from the regular line, so of course this will lead to longer standby lines. FP+ also created lines on attractions that were often previously walk-ons. Fastpass, when designed, was a great system for peak attractions during peak times but beyond that it just clogs up walkways.