We may get budget cuts, but take a look!!!

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Read this and understand how lucky WDW is:

Meanwhile, Over in France...
While the Disney debate rages in the U.S., France offers visible proof of how far Disney has fallen
By Jim Douglas

Marne-la-Vallee is cold. Just twenty minutes outside of Paris on the train, the open fields of the French countryside in the winter are not hospitable. Nonetheless, thousands of people flock here daily - and see for themselves what a chaotic state Disney is in as they enter (or avoid) the Walt Disney Studios theme park next to Disneyland Paris.

Since it opened last year, I had read reports of the park's less-than-stellar reception, its low attendance and its lack of attractions, but I had reason to doubt them. After all, the Walt Disney Studios is located just two minutes by foot from the front gates of Disneyland Paris, which may be the most lavish and beautiful theme park in the world.

On a recent March afternoon, as a cold rain fell and a sharp wind whistled through the sky, I spent an afternoon at the Walt Disney Studios. As someone who worked at The Walt Disney Company for nearly 10 years and once believed passionately that Disney Imagineers were the best creative minds in the world, I was crestfallen:

The Walt Disney Studios in Paris may be the single worst theme park I have ever experienced.

Within four hours, my small group of friends was ready to leave, and we had plenty of company. We left with heavy hearts, walking toward the exit with a multitude of other guests who were openly complain about their miserable experience, the broken-down rides and the lack of anything to do.

It didn't seem possible, but the Walt Disney Studios makes Disney's California Adventure look elaborate. Creatively, it is a new low point for The Walt Disney Company; financially, it is a disaster, having failed to add to incremental attendance at the Euro Disney Resort and threatening to bring the complex closer to true failure (as in shutting its gates) than it ever has been.

And all of it due to the fact that today's Walt Disney Company emphasizes bottom-line thinking and rewards its executives for failure. There is no more visible example of how far Disney has fallen than this theme park.

Guests to Walt Disney Studios enter the tiny park through "Stage 1," a fanciful-looking "soundstage" that acts as a sort of Main Street U.S.A.: Everyone has to come through here, and it is far too small, which means that even on a slow day crowds in Stage 1 are overwhelming. The park's only visual flair is in here, in a row of stores and restaurants that look like an old-style Hollywood street. It's cute - until you realize that Imagineers simply lifted the Hollywood and Dine soundstage almost directly from California Adventure.

Through the opposite doors is the park itself, and the first thing visitors see is the familiar "Partners" statue of Walt and Mickey - with Walt ironically pointing directly toward the exit, as if telling guests to turn around and go back the way they came. They'd do well to heed his advice. To the left is the information booth, where guests see quite explicitly how little their 59 Euro admission price (about $70) will get them: There are only 10 attractions in the entire park - and "Stage 1" is considered one of them!

Most visitors start their day with "Cinemagique," which is like the Great Movie Ride at Disney-MGM Studios without the Audio-Animatronic figures or the ride-through element. In short: It's a movie. Cute, but nothing special.

Across the street from Cinemagique is "Armageddon." It was closed the day we visited. Six cast members were huddled outside to tell guests to look elsewhere. When they were asked how long the attraction might be closed, they said, simply, "Who knows?" A ringing endorsement of Disney management from its own employees.

Not too far away is the Disney Channel Television Studio. It's supposed to be a walk-through of a "working" TV studio. It's a commercial for Disney Channel Europe, and a far too blatant one at that. Guests were complaining loudly about the stupidity of this "attraction," whose only merit is being able to watch a few technicians stare at a bank of monitors while a perky French teen tells you about all of the shows you can see on Disney Channel. For kids, it's a blatant come-on; for adults, it's an affront to intelligence.

On the far side of the TV studios is Cyber Space Mountain, lifted from the now-defunct (except in Florida) DisneyQuest concept. Kids can't get on it. Most adults get sick just looking at it. The cast member in charge of it barely knew how to operate it.

Then there's Rock 'n' Roller Coaster. From afar, it looks like they might have gotten this one right (even if it has nothing to do with movies or TV): there seems to be a large section of track hurling out of the building and a gigantic CD next to the attraction. Walk a little closer, though, and the truth becomes apparent - it's all, in effect, a giant cardboard cutout. It looks like a tacky roadside amusement park. Inside, the elaborate theming of the Disney-MGM attraction has vanished. The "pre-show" is just a few seconds of Aerosmith making some hard-to-decipher remarks, with no effort made at setting a tone. The ride itself is fun, but the most the Imagineers could do here was add a few neon lights along the coaster track.

Remember, less than a half-mile away from this stripped-down indoor coaster is Disneyland Paris's "Space Mountain: From the Earth to the Moon," where the trains hurtle through giant asteroids and everything is intricately detailed. Rock 'n' Roller Coaster serves only to show that Disney has gone in entirely the wrong direction in the past 10 years.

The Backstage Tour is lifted from Disney-MGM Studios - except that in Florida, there was once the semblance of a real studio, whereas in France it's all for show. No movie has ever been shot here. There's also Animagique, a stage show for kids that held no appeal to my group of four adults; likewise, the Magic Carpets of Aladdin, a cheap boardwalk kiddie ride.

That leaves only "Action! Moteurs!" It's a stunt show that generates big audiences - mostly because there's nothing else in the park worth seeing. It's so elaborate that it only performs twice a day, and when it does the rest of the park is virtually empty. (We had a wait of less than one minute for Rock 'n' Roller Coaster during the show.) Apparently, Disney is opening a version of "Action! Moteurs!" at Disney-MGM Studios, though it is anyone's guess why. Granted, it was bitterly cold when we saw the show, but that only partially explains why, after 30 minutes of watching fake "moviemaking" (Disney acts as if no one has ever watched a making-of documentary on a DVD and pretends that moviemaking is a bunch of people clapping clapboards) about a third of the audience had gotten up to leave.

Which is what we did after "Action! Moteurs" - not just the show, but the park itself. Being there was too painful, especially when, from the stunt-show bleachers, you can see Sleeping Beauty Castle and Phantom Manor beckoning you to visit a "real" theme park.

We had been in the park for four hours and had seen everything. We left angry at our experience and feeling cheated at having paid so much money for so little. The two Europeans in our group confessed they had never been particularly fond of Disney prior to our visit - and after Walt Disney Studios, they were even less friendly toward the company. The way they explained it, this theme park proved their theory that Disney was only out to get as much money as possible and no longer was interested in telling stories.

They weren't alone. As I left, I asked a couple of strangers why they were leaving so early. Their answer: "There's nothing to do."

During my employment at Disney, we used to say that Disney spared no expense in the things it did because if it cut corners, people would notice and ultimately the Disney name would lose its appeal. That was before the business executives started invading. They were the ones who approved the budget for Walt Disney Studios, who oversaw its construction, who have systematically stripped the creative aspect out of Walt Disney Imagineering.

When these executives first started to come to Disney, we used to give them daylong orientations where we would try to explain the company's philosophies to them. We told them that cheapening the company's products would drain its appeal. In 2001, they told many of us that they wanted us to leave the company ("voluntarily," they said). Perhaps they just didn't want to listen to what we were saying.

Sadly, those long-held philosophies about what happens if you don't give the customer real value are coming true. No place illustrates that more vividly - or more sadly - than Walt Disney Studios Paris.


Taken from SaveDisney.com

Suddenly WDW seems like heaven when reminded of WDSP!!!

Share your thoughts!
 

CAPTAIN HOOK

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by DisneyFan 2000
Read this and understand how lucky WDW is:
As a northern European the weather plays a major part. I'd rather spend that little bit extra and have 2 weeks in Florida :cool:
 

ogryn

Well-Known Member
I really can't make my mind up about Disneyland Paris Studios.

Yes, there is not much to do, yes it looks empty... but it is still Disney.

I enjoyed the stunt show even though the seats were cheap and hurt me bum.

I also prefer the DLP version of Rock 'n' Rollercoaster to the Florida one.

It just needs money spending on it badly. Change the theme a little, take the guests to the movies, not just a movie studio.

Add some C, D and E tickets. You're Disney for heavens sake... where are the dark rides?
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Re: Re: We may get budget cuts, but take a look!!!

Originally posted by CAPTAIN HOOK
As a northern European the weather plays a major part. I'd rather spend that little bit extra and have 2 weeks in Florida :cool:

I doubt that out of the 10-11 million DLP visitors 8-9 million have passed by WDSP because of the weather! :)
 

civileng68

Account Suspended
Re: Re: Re: We may get budget cuts, but take a look!!!

Originally posted by DisneyFan 2000
I doubt that out of the 10-11 million DLP visitors 8-9 million have passed by WDSP because of the weather! :)


which is exactly why if the corporates weren't looking at bottom line only they would be in Spain right now. They let the french government lure them in with cash.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
civileng68 - very true!

However, I disagree with the articel regarding Rock N Roller. The lighting system(a different show for each car) is more effective than the blacklight flats in Orlando. It tells a different story, and adds more to the ride. As for saying a `few neon lights along the track`.. this is WRONG. plain and simple. DLP RnR has over 400 robotic lights... more than a decent rock concert! And BTW - the preshow is as good as Orlandos - it is kind of like episode 2 if you have seen MGMs first. As long as, funnier... if you can`t `decipher` whats being said, you must be deaf.

And `Cinemagique` is NOTHING like the Great Movie Ride. Its is a projected film, with special effects interaction. Why not just say its a film - instead of trying to bad mouth it by calling it TGMR without the Vehicles and AAs - DUH!!

Don`t get me wrong - I think the WDS Paris are a waste of time (and space) as they stand now... but lets get things right!
 

dizneeboy

Active Member
i agree Marni1971. While the studios overseas is definately lacking, I still enjoyed the few things I did there. Granted, I read so much about Disney that maybe my expectations weren't that high on that park and therefore I enjoyed myself.

I felt Rock N Roller Coaster was themed nicely. Ok, so its a light show, but those lights were designed and synched up with the ride and are slightly random so your ride can be a little different each time you ride. ITs got a definate theme to it (making of a Rock video).

I thought the stunt show was excellent and am looking forward to the US version. Armageddon wasn't amazing or anything, but was fun and was along the lines of Universal's Twister and Backdraft shows.

DLP has a one day park hopper that we took advantage of, so the studios was a nice break in the afternoon for a couple of hours.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone in that it is the worst park by far, but I felt the attractions that are there aren't as bad as what was stated above...with the exception of the backlot tour and the ABC studios tour...definately right on about those!
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Originally posted by marni1971
And BTW - the preshow is as good as Orlandos

I think he meant there is no theming along the way, just plain queue, pre-show, ride. No theming what so ever. That's what I understood. Maybe someone who hsa been there can go into detail about the queue?
 

badnitrus

New Member
Rock'n'Roller Coaster in Paris looks like a sound stage, from beginning to end. When you step into the building, it looks like Florida's version. It's a fake records studio. One queue area features musical instruments autographed by various stars (Aerosmith, Dave Matthews, etc). After you pass the turnstiles, there is corridor with two doors at different levels that open automatically. The corridor is decorated with posters of upcoming albums to be released, but that's it. The most interesting area is the boarding area. There are lights, metal structures, boxes everywhere. Kinda like they're getting ready for a concert. The train is called "Soundtracker". During the ride, there is no real themeing, just a syncronised light show, some fog... But it's fun.

Here are some pictures:
normal_PIC122.jpg


rock-n-roller-coaster5.jpg
 

paulcmartens

Account Suspended
the sad thing is imagineers/animators never stood up for themselves. when you talk to them, you can sometimes hear..."I'm a victim of spending habits of my bosses" sort of wafting towards you in conversation.

Well, its partly true, and partly not.

The genius of Walt and Roy was that, a) Walt came up with the ideas and accountant type Roy was the balance book of reality. b) Walt was creative type first, not really a business type (lots of early failures) his brother had to reign him in. The bad part of their partnership is that their company died along with them to an extent. They didn't think through hiring successors (or did they? Sklar and Roy Jr.)

The bizarre thing is that you can't really fault these executives, because they are doing their job. They are doing the 'business' thing. They have to look at bottom lines etc. You can fault them for applying the skills where they are not needed.

The risky, risky, risky thing is this: you have to have an imagineer type at the helm of the company. Walt was the first imagineer/animator at that company whether he admitted it or not. You need someone fearless enough to say: "hey, Disney is not like a business, its not just 'this company', its a creative endeavor meant to please the public. Period."

Business types don't operate that way (through pleasing people), and business in general shouldn't (they wouldn't make as much money! lol)

I guess I'm starting to see what I believed to be true 10-12 years ago...the 'leadership' is all wrong. You actually can't have a 'leader' be the head of the company, you have to have a 'creator'. There is a subtle but important difference. Time will only tell if both 'leadership' and 'creatorship - imagineers' figure that out.

Its time for Marty Sklar or someone to step up. (Can you tell I'm tired of imagineers/animators crying foul? Enough with the excuses do something about it).

No offense to you 'save Disney' folks, but Roy doesn't know much more what to do than anyone else. Yes, he's pointing out very important things...but hello...look who started the problem (if you are calling Eisner the main problem). I'm glad Roy's there, but he isn't pulling together the complete picture in my not so humble opinion.

Anyway, there's much more to my bull she-at, but I'm not talking about the details. I'll leave that for my work and writing.

Paris Studios was part of Eisner's plan to build an empire...and well, its crumbling...and that's o.k. Some of us expected that. When Disney company isn't busy inventing new things or new twists, and just stamping parks around...whoah...that's the death knell for any creative endeavor.
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Originally posted by badnitrus
Rock'n'Roller Coaster in Paris looks like a sound stage, from beginning to end. When you step into the building, it looks like Florida's version. It's a fake records studio. One queue area features musical instruments autographed by various stars (Aerosmith, Dave Matthews, etc). After you pass the turnstiles, there is corridor with two doors at different levels that open automatically. The corridor is decorated with posters of upcoming albums to be released, but that's it. The most interesting area is the boarding area. There are lights, metal structures, boxes everywhere. Kinda like they're getting ready for a concert. The train is called "Soundtracker". During the ride, there is no real themeing, just a syncronised light show, some fog... But it's fun.

Here are some pictures:
normal_PIC122.jpg


rock-n-roller-coaster5.jpg

Thanks for sharing!

As for paulcmartens, I agree with most of what you said! The problem with Disney these past years is mainly artistic talent that doesn't get proper fundings! (Animation, WDI ect...)
 

ogryn

Well-Known Member
Rock N Rollercoaster in Paris is like a complete sensory overload. Speed, G-Forces, Blasting Music, and Lights everywhere.

A great improvement over the cut-outs in Florida.
 

Hank Scorpio

New Member
Was I the only one who looked at those pictures and was left open mouthed by how BLAND and DULL RNRC looked? I am not suprised that people are disapointed. That isn't Disney, thats a parking lot in the middle of an industrial estate with a furniture warehouse next to it.

Never been to DLP, even though its closer to me then Florida. And I can tell you that after seeing that, i've got no intention of going there. Id rather save the money for a Florida trip.
 

grandmath

Active Member
1) The entrance price is not 59 Euro :mad: but 39 EURO with a 5pm access to DL Park. Or 49 EURO for a one-day hopper pass so to say "it is not worth it" isn't fair anymore.

2) Walt on the partner statue always show the exit in every park ;)

Seriously, I too think WDS is the worst Disney park on earth. But to say people leave after 4 hours in the park, it isn't true. Most guests leave at around 5 PM. And most guests really enjoy the attractions. Cheering and clapping at the end of Cinemagique and Armageddon. Loving RRC. Amazed by Moteurs...Action! (people leave after 30 min? Not true!!! One week ago, I was the first to leave in the entire audience (it was packed), 5 minutes before end) Kids sing with and enjoy Animagique. So what's the problem?

-The size of the park
-The theming of the outside, with remains sub-standart for Disney and totally non-magical
-Horrible and boring queulines
-Not enough attractions

Some parts of the park are poorly executed compared to MGM or DCA (Animation tour & Tram Tour) but that doesn't count because less than 1% of the guests notice.

But as you see, the park is pretty much easy to repair. We have some good attractions, we have one of the best looking Disney park entrance, the studio theme is attractive worldwide. Throw in a couple of "blockbuster attractions", a couple of C or D-Tickets (one of which a small dark ride), a few street sets and a nightime show, along with a few more shops and restaurants. Enhance the theming, make it more refined. What we dont have is money :brick: 300 million $ would pretty much transform and save the park.

That said, TOT will definately help in the near future.
 

ogryn

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Hank Scorpio
Was I the only one who looked at those pictures and was left open mouthed by how BLAND and DULL RNRC looked? I am not suprised that people are disapointed. That isn't Disney, thats a parking lot in the middle of an industrial estate with a furniture warehouse next to it.

That doesn't really matter, the queues never seem to be over 15 minutes, so you'll be inside the building before you know it, and you won't have to look at the shabby outside :lol:
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Originally posted by ogryn
That doesn't really matter, the queues never seem to be over 15 minutes, so you'll be inside the building before you know it, and you won't have to look at the shabby outside :lol:

:lol:

Sad but funny at the same time!

:cry:
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Yep, WDS RnR looks very cheap outside. Very Cheap. Once inside, the queue and preshow looks at least as good as MGM, if not better. The loading theming again different - themed to a concert (lots os suspended trusses and moving lights - no alley and parking lot. But the layout of the WHOLE building (queue, preshow, loading, track, exit etc.) is IDENTICAL to Florida.

What is there is very good (apart from the Aladdin spinner a la Dumbo - this is classed as a major attraction! And the already discussed Tram Tour). The entrance is great looking, Stage one is very well themed (and no more crowded than MSUSA at 11am), the Production Tour is as good as its Florida counterpart for looking at the studio/transmision area, and The Disney Studios Parade (think 3pm parade) is one of the BEST parades I`ve seen in DLP or WDW!

Going back to the exterior of RnR, its the same for most of the attractions - Moteurs, Armageddon, Tram loading - a big warehouse with a billboard. The whole park looks minimalist on landscaping - not a single lake or pond, lots of bare metal and no change of height anywhere - no hills, no uphill paths, nothing. The only berm is the one round the park. The whole thing looks... cheap. And very small. I visited 3 months after opening, got really excited, walked out of the back of Studio 1 and thought `is THIS it?` The guest can see the physical limits of the park from when they first emerge. We had a good time, but left at 4pm having done everything. Some more than once! We did go back a day later to ride the few big rides again... but out of 5 days it was 80% Disneyland Park, 20% WDS.
 

djmatthews

Well-Known Member
I think that WDI did a good job on what money they had; however, I believe you need to speculate to accumulate. We need to look back to '92 when MGM opened, this park was very empty at the time, with only a handful of attractions, Hollywood Blvd opened giving the park a whole new lease of life...... Disney Studios needs money invested into it in order to make money. Disneyland Park is beautiful, and magical, the Studios are a let down from all accounts, and it is Eisner’s fault, micro managing and cutting budgets. The Imagineers must have so many unique attractions up their sleeves, but they don't have the funds to explore them, so they have to build "second hand" attractions.

To add to what other people have said, Florida has the attraction of the good weather, and for a little extra, you get good weather plus more for your money!

I was looking into going to DLP this Easter, however, 3 (+1 free)nights would have cost I think around £350 each inc travel, park tickets, at the Hotel Santa Fe. For £650 I get 10 nights Howard Johnson stay, flights to Orlando, Fully Inclusive Car Hire, 5 Day Hopper Plus Pass, plus hot weather, more parks, water parks, cheaper when we get there etc etc. I know where I get value!
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I wish that they would have invested the money in a new E-Ticket for DLP. I bet the whole situation would be very different!

:cry:
 

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