WDW vs. Disneyland

[teebin]

Just read his article... it soooooo answered a mysterious question that has been haunting me. West Center St. I visited the park for the first time in 1999 and have been haunted by the memory of the west side of Main St west center being much deeper and quiet etc. with a flower cart filled with fake flowers. I have an innate sense of direction so I have been totally confused since January 2004 when I returned. What year did they fill it in with that big building?

Main St Cinema once contained an actual Cinema?

Ok, I agree with much of the facts of his article, just not the understanding of the issues that caused the problem. He admits that DLR is a locals park and WDW is a world wide tourist destination. 9/11 fried WDW, while DL had the patronage of locals who could drive to it. That it has recovered as fast as it has is amazing to me to this day. Add to this the fact that WDW is what, 750 thousand acres and it amazes me that they can keep it as clipped and painted as they do. That said, WDW is a giant, and the bigger they are, the slower they go forward, and the harder they fall. The only thing I really agree with, is the over development of the property. In thirty years, you will be able to sit at an IHOP and look at a WDW something, at the rate they are now building. The fact that you can see both a swan and a dolphin behind the eiffel tower in the WS is a testiment to "who cares" greed. I would have preferred "creative" greed.

 

[Buford]

Main St Cinema once contained an actual Cinema?

yes, hence the 'Cinema' :lol:

Disneyland's uses several screens and shows some late 20s Mickey Mouse shorts.

 

[tirian]

Here's the link for those of you who haven't read the article:

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al110306a.htm


Now, I have to agree that Al often bashes WDW simply because he's an unabashed DL fanboy, and many of his criticisms are ridiculous; but some of them are very true, and (as Marni has already pointed out) we've been saying the same things for a while.

Now, is maintenance really worse at WDW than at DL? No; as a matter of fact, MK management is currently working on refurbishing the entire park. Al's remark that the Food and Wine Festival is just a big mall food court is silly: when do you get to sample all that food and wine in your local shopping mall? His further criticism of Epcot, that France and Test Track don't go together, shows a gross ignorance of Epcot's "World's Fair" atmosphere.

Yet for all of his ranting, Al points out some important things:

(1) WDW Entertainment has been pathetic lately, with the same parade floats being recycled year after year. Florida has much more money to burn than its younger California sister, yet it doesn't utilize the funds properly.

(2) WDW Marketing does control too much of what happens at the parks. Many of the executives here are sick of the magic/pixie dust/little-kids-only vibe that marketing has been pushing for the past ten years. The new "Million Dreams" ads are superb, but they still suffer from making WDW look like it's only for toddlers. The parks need refurbishment, new D & E-ticket attractions, and stellar entertainment, not free Tinkerbell pins.

(3) Although the Magic Kingdom is being completely restored, it needs new attractions; and in the future, rides need to be refurbished more quickly than they have been for the past few years. For its first two decades, the MK was the crown jewel in the Walt Disney Company; but it has been allowed to sit dormant while DL, TDL, and DLP get new or upgraded attractions. We got a toddler playground, a 3-D show that's going to be shipped to the other parks, and a restored IaSW. The other parks here at WDW have received some major improvements, but the Magic Kingdom is its flagship park, and needs to be presented as such.

We don't need to be as cynical or self-righteous as Al, but we do need to speak up when WDW isn't meeting its former standards. Go to MK GR and complain that the Country Bear Christmas isn't being presented this year. When you get asked to complete a survey at a park or receive a "Let Us Know" survey E-mail after your vacation, point out that you expect WDW to have the best attractions and maintenance on earth; and let them know if the resort isn't meeting those standards.

Despite his sharp criticism and DL fanboy behavior, Lutz gave us all a much-needed kick in the pants.

Please forgive the lengthy post.

 

[isitingood]

I don't know how many of you read the miceage website, but there was an article there today that really got me steamed. In this article, Al Lutz badmouths his entire WDW experience, while bolstering his love for Disneyland. Most notably he states the WDW has refused to upgrade it's older attractions?!? i cant see how this could be when WDW just spent 4 months refurbishing Pirates of the Carribean, 1 full year refurbishing its a small world, and continually over the last 12 years has updated Spaceship Earth. Sure Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, and Jungle Cruise have been neglected, but it's kind of hard to refurb rides when millions and millions of guests from all corners of the globe, rather than a bunch of annual passholders who can show up multiple times a year from nearby, are booking a once in a lifetime vacation. A rushed refurbishment of these rides would only cause a mile long line at guest relations. Another thing is the big story right now, the country bear christmas. This does leave a bitter taste in my mouth, but the saved budget will give a full refurbishment of the attraction in the spring. I, myself realize that cleaning crews at WDW have diminished, but Disneyland is no better, it is a company wide epidemic. I myself visited Disneyland in March 2005, and it made me realize that WDW was the flagship of the Disney company. The cast members at DL are inexperienced and usually unfriendly. Very few have been there before 2005. I love the fact that someone that has seen the problems at DL would dare compare it to WDW. Running Space Mountain, the Enchanted Tiki Room, and the submarine voyage into the ground is not something to brag about. Nevermind developing a new attraction that was never created correctly, was forced to be closed, and was nothing more than a very sad attempt to counteract the genius of Test Track. If DL did not celebrate it's 50th anniversary, the resort would still be in shambles. Nevermind a entire second themepark that is nothing more than a waste of a day and a perfectly good parking lot. At least at WDW, the monorails weren't shooting out their brakes and breaking down daily. I'm not saying WDW is perfect, but Disneyland is much farther away. I think Epcot's theme is fine compared to the giant postcard that is DCA. By the way WDW had a bigger percentage increase in attendace during the HCOE, much higher than the numbers that every californian will brag to you about. I do not hate disneyland, i thought it was cool to know you were walking in Walt's footsteps. Anyway, remember one thing, WDW was built because Walt was unhappy with DL. By the way, i love Al Lutz's work on Miceage.com, however he seemed to overlook a couple of things. Plus HM,JC and SM will recieve refurbishments in 08'.

I agree WDW is fantastic and the overall experience is better but WDW wouldn't even be around if it wasn't for DL. DL is much better then the MK and Goofy's Kitchen is a far superior character meal then anything WDW has to offer. The characters actually interact with the kids and when they come to tables will talk to the kids istead of just taking a quick picture and going away. DL had a 2% increase over WDW last year with over 14 million people so I don't think it was all townies or AP's that were attending. How many times have you been to DL? I go every year and have never seen the Monorail break down so I don't know where you're getting that. Don't get me wrong I love WDW because it is pretty much a city of it's own but it has faults also so just don't bash DL for everything.

 

[imagineer boy]

Here's the link for those of you who haven't read the article:

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al110306a.htm


Now, I have to agree that Al often bashes WDW simply because he's an unabashed DL fanboy, and many of his criticisms are ridiculous; but some of them are very true, and (as Marni has already pointed out) we've been saying the same things for a while.

Now, is maintenance really worse at WDW than at DL? No; as a matter of fact, MK management is currently working on refurbishing the entire park. Al's remark that the Food and Wine Festival is just a big mall food court is silly: when do you get to sample all that food and wine in your local shopping mall? His further criticism of Epcot, that France and Test Track don't go together, shows a gross ignorance of Epcot's "World's Fair" atmosphere.

Yet for all of his ranting, Al points out some important things:

(1) WDW Entertainment has been pathetic lately, with the same parade floats being recycled year after year. Florida has much more money to burn than its younger California sister, yet it doesn't utilize the funds properly.

(2) WDW Marketing does control too much of what happens at the parks. Many of the executives here are sick of the magic/pixie dust/little-kids-only vibe that marketing has been pushing for the past ten years. The new "Million Dreams" ads are superb, but they still suffer from making WDW look like it's only for toddlers. The parks need refurbishment, new D & E-ticket attractions, and stellar entertainment, not free Tinkerbell pins.

(3) Although the Magic Kingdom is being completely restored, it needs new attractions; and in the future, rides need to be refurbished more quickly than they have been for the past few years. For its first two decades, the MK was the crown jewel in the Walt Disney Company; but it has been allowed to sit dormant while DL, TDL, and DLP get new or upgraded attractions. We got a toddler playground, a 3-D show that's going to be shipped to the other parks, and a restored IaSW. The other parks here at WDW have received some major improvements, but the Magic Kingdom is its flagship park, and needs to be presented as such.

We don't need to be as cynical or self-righteous as Al, but we do need to speak up when WDW isn't meeting its former standards. Go to MK GR and complain that the Country Bear Christmas isn't being presented this year. When you get asked to complete a survey at a park or receive a "Let Us Know" survey E-mail after your vacation, point out that you expect WDW to have the best attractions and maintenance on earth; and let them know if the resort isn't meeting those standards.

Despite his sharp criticism and DL fanboy behavior, Lutz gave us all a much-needed kick in the pants.

Please forgive the lengthy post.

Good post! While I agree that some things Al rants about are a little rediculous, he does bring up some good points, like the ones you mentioned.

I am VERY fed up with the marketing department making WDW look like its only for little kids. That's why WDW has gotten the misconception over the years that its a place just for little kids. That's why I'm constatntly being bombarded by "Aren't you a little too old for WDW?" comments from people I know at school. Its rediculous. If marketing wants to make more money, then target as many age groups as possible and then you can attract more and more different age groups and make more money.

 

[tirian]

Thanks. I tried to be fair-minded.

But I must confess that I greatly prefer WDW to DL.

 

[TP2000]

Al has a large bias towards DL and I'm often annoyed with his articles but I can't find any fault with this one. Everything he said in that article has been written by many of us on this board 1000 times. It's only because it's AL saying it that has you upset. This time he speaks the truth and there's not one point that he makes that I can't argue.

I agree. I noticed all of the same things Al Lutz did on my last visit to WDW. It's operated very, very differently from Disneyland, and in many cases that isn't a good thing.

I found Al Lutz's explanation of the WDW executive structure and the lack of Imagineering political clout with those executives in Florida to be fascinating. It explains a lot.

Why is it that WDW doesn't have an Al Lutz type person? How come Disneyland has all of these online celebrities that own big splashy websites and are quoted in the national media regularly, and WDW doesn't have much more than a few basic tourist information sites with message boards?

 

[Skippy2000]

We're a hard-core WDW-lovin' family (last visit May '06 for 10 days) who just had a chance to visit DL for a few days, and it was eye-opening. I have trouble arguing with anything Lutz said in his article. Overall, I still think MK is a superior park, but DL had a freshness and authenticity that had a special charm to this ol' Mouseketeer. The Nightmare before Christmas overlay of Haunted Mansion was amazing. And don't get me started on the Indiana Jones ride; I may never be able to ride Dinosaur again. Main Street in DL had a charm that just isn't there in Orlando...maybe because it hasn't been gutted to become just one big store behind the facades. Walt's ghost may have had something to do with this......

That said, other than the fact that Fantasmic uses 2 "real" ships at DL instead of the fake barges used at MGM, I like Fantasmic in Florida better. Splash Mountain is my favorite ride in the world, but Splash at DL was just unpleasant. The much smaller walkways in DL made for some awful crowding. Several times we fled to California Adventure just to get away from the madding crowd. And, after reading lots of negative publicity about it, we loved California Adventure! It was wonderful to walk down CA's mini version of Hollywood Blvd and NOT see the BAH at the end of the street!

The pruning of menu selections, the disappearance of much quality and unique merchandise in favor of toys & plush, the tiredness of some of the attractions, and lack of upkeep: Lutz makes valid points. Somebody needs to rein-in the beancounters and stifle Marketing for a while.

 

[Shiloh]

Don't listen to him.( Al Lutz).He is a nobody. All he has are opinions and his alone. NOt any more valid than yours or mine. He has nothing to do with the disney corp. He just has a web site, he isnt a journalist, he just has a web site that entitles him to write his opinion of things, Thats all there is to him.

 

[CoffeeJedi]

After reading the article more carefully, i'm afraid that i agree with him on most points (though i found his criticisms of Animal Kingdom odd, he couldn't figure out the really simple story of Dinosaur?)
<i>"All you WDW fans out there note: I do not hate WDW. But I do hate how it is currently being maintained and sold. They need to do better. Disneyland now is proof that it can be improved."</i>
I take back my earlier statement, he's not really a jerk, he just has problems expressing himself from time to time.

 

[NadieMasK2]

After visiting DL I do believe that the attractions in MK need some attention. Most of the classic rides in DL are just more enjoyable. They are either more detailed, longer, more current technologically, or all of the above.

And we found DCA to be a very enjoyable park. I think people have all convinced each other that it is a waste of space before giving it a fair shake. I admit I was one of them. After reading so many negative opinions I did not expect much. It was nice to be surprised! No, it is not Epcot, not by a mile, but I enjoyed it and will visit again.

 

[TP2000]

We're a hard-core WDW-lovin' family (last visit May '06 for 10 days) who just had a chance to visit DL for a few days, and it was eye-opening. I have trouble arguing with anything Lutz said in his article. Overall, I still think MK is a superior park, but DL had a freshness and authenticity that had a special charm to this ol' Mouseketeer.

It is fun to go experience a new Disney park now and then, isn't it? I had the same type of experience last year in Tokyo, after a few decades of doing the Anaheim/Orlando thing.

This thread is interesting to read, as more people check out the Lutz article for themselves I keep seeing more sentiments like the one above. It's natural to immediately go on the defensive when someone criticizes something on your home turf. But that Lutz article simply encapsulated all of the same criticisms I've read here on this message board for the last year, it just came from a Westerner instead of an Easterner.

Glad to hear you enjoyed your Disneyland visit so much Skippy. I lived in Massachusetts out Acton way for several years. If you think Disneyland crowds are bad in October, you should see them in December or July or any holiday weekend! They become insane very quickly, and are only rivaled by the intense crowds in Tokyo Disneyland. As the saying goes... No one goes to Disneyland anymore, it's too crowded!

And yes, Haunted Mansion Holiday is amazing. It's A Small World Holiday is equally amazing, but it's definitely more of the charming/misty eyed/childlike wonder kind of amazing. Amazing nonetheless.

At least you had the WDW Splash Mountain to reference when you rode Disneyland's version. The first time I rode the WDW Splash after a few years of riding only Disneyland's, I got off and said "Hey! This ride actually has a plotline!". For the life of me I still barely understand what is supposed to be going on inside Disneyland's Splash Mountain; it's just a random series of singing animals with a couple of scary drops and big splashes.

 

[flagen]

This year I have been lucky enough to goto WDW (last nov), DL this past May, and going back to WDW next month.

For us and we are east coasters. Disneyland/Ca Adventure blew WDW out of the water.

Its seems alot of WDW people that have never been to DL love to come on this board and others and bash it.

1. We got 50-60+ photos of Chars from all over the parks, no hassles, no people inside talking, there was also not the WDW lines people with the screaming kids as DL seemed to have enough toons around to make everyone happy.

2. In toon town Mickeys House, WDW Mickey was as not very lively and we seemed like we at Mc Donalds, Next, next, next.zzzzzzz at DL the cast members smiled, Mickey was well Mickey and fun.

DL and CA Parades Awesome, WDW was good also but DL was simply better. Night time fireworks yes WDW might have bigger bangs but DL has the better show (it can make you cry every time you see it)

The food at the hotels at DL especially the Grand Cail (Napa Rose) is fantastic we at at Spago while out there...Napa was BETTER then Wolfgang.

We know WDW say ...well in FL we have MGM. MK. EPCOT, and AK.....DL Has ALMOST all the best rides + rides Florida does not have (Indiana jones is GREAT! Much better then Dino!)....And guess what WE LIKED CALI ADVENTURE......We staying at The Grand Cali also....Can you walk out the back of your hotel at any park in WDW???? Heck no! No wait for a bus or a m-rail. Man again all the people that cry about CA I do not think they have ever been to the park...The Electric Light Parade, Block Party Bash were two of MANY great things there.

Everyone at times can have a bad experence whether it be WDW or DL...Some people that come here and read this stuff treat it like the bible at times.. Like its blasphme to speak out...Its best to take most this with a grain of salt. If you have a chance to goto WDW/DL inthe same year do it ...only then can you really compare:sohappy:

 

[wedenterprises]

Al's article upset me as well. I can't stand when people just focus on the negative.

Fans of DL find it hard to love WDW.

I've been to WDW more times, I went to WDW first and my family is DVC member at WDW....and I love WDW more than DL, but I find that DL has a charm that MK doesn't have.

Hey, at least we don't have that eyesore DCA...like John Hench said "I liked it better as a parking lot."

I love DL, don't get me wrong, but I think Al's article was meant to shed light on the poor maintenenace of WDW execs, not just the litter and paint chips, but the big time upkeep of rides. With that, I agree with Al.

Still, Al ticks me off with his DL love-on.

 

[MainSt1993]

And we found DCA to be a very enjoyable park. I think people have all convinced each other that it is a waste of space before giving it a fair shake. I admit I was one of them. After reading so many negative opinions I did not expect much. It was nice to be surprised! No, it is not Epcot, not by a mile, but I enjoyed it and will visit again.

I'm with you on this. DCA is fun! And it's not ever chaotic. The CM's are happy (My friend who works there works 9:30 - 6:30 each day - I would kill for that extra hour of sleep!!). And with the coming $650 MILLION Extreme Makeover (MOVE THAT BUS!!!), it's only going to get better.

 

[MainSt1993]

No one goes to Disneyland anymore, it's too crowded!

Yer hot, TP2000!!!!

 

[MainSt1993]

The other parks here at WDW have received some major improvements, but the Magic Kingdom is its flagship park, and needs to be presented as such.

Wha-wha-WHAAAAAT????? Ah-hem, "Disneyland is the star. Everything else is in a supporting role." -Walter Elias Disney

Yes, their castle is hot, and their utilidoors are the envy of the modern world. But thems is fightin' words! :wave:

 

[jaredliu]

He had lots of good comments on WDW but some WDW fans just failed to see that. They only see the negative part and couldn't excpet any criticism. How pethetic.

 

[davewasbaloo]

This year I have been lucky enough to goto WDW (last nov), DL this past May, and going back to WDW next month.

For us and we are east coasters. Disneyland/Ca Adventure blew WDW out of the water.

Its seems alot of WDW people that have never been to DL love to come on this board and others and bash it.

1. We got 50-60+ photos of Chars from all over the parks, no hassles, no people inside talking, there was also not the WDW lines people with the screaming kids as DL seemed to have enough toons around to make everyone happy.

2. In toon town Mickeys House, WDW Mickey was as not very lively and we seemed like we at Mc Donalds, Next, next, next.zzzzzzz at DL the cast members smiled, Mickey was well Mickey and fun.

DL and CA Parades Awesome, WDW was good also but DL was simply better. Night time fireworks yes WDW might have bigger bangs but DL has the better show (it can make you cry every time you see it)

The food at the hotels at DL especially the Grand Cail (Napa Rose) is fantastic we at at Spago while out there...Napa was BETTER then Wolfgang.

We know WDW say ...well in FL we have MGM. MK. EPCOT, and AK.....DL Has ALMOST all the best rides + rides Florida does not have (Indiana jones is GREAT! Much better then Dino!)....And guess what WE LIKED CALI ADVENTURE......We staying at The Grand Cali also....Can you walk out the back of your hotel at any park in WDW???? Heck no! No wait for a bus or a m-rail. Man again all the people that cry about CA I do not think they have ever been to the park...The Electric Light Parade, Block Party Bash were two of MANY great things there.

Everyone at times can have a bad experence whether it be WDW or DL...Some people that come here and read this stuff treat it like the bible at times.. Like its blasphme to speak out...Its best to take most this with a grain of salt. If you have a chance to goto WDW/DL inthe same year do it ...only then can you really compare:sohappy:

To me WDW offers quantity. DL offers quality.

In all seriousness, I do prefer the DL resort experience, intimacy and magic. And the Napa Rose is the best restaurant I have ever eaten at, inc. Spago and the Ivy.

But Epcot and DAK make us go to WDW every 5 years or so now.

 

[Victor]

We know WDW say ...well in FL we have MGM. MK. EPCOT, and AK.....DL Has ALMOST all the best rides + rides Florida does not have (Indiana jones is GREAT! Much better then Dino!)....And guess what WE LIKED CALI ADVENTURE......We staying at The Grand Cali also....Can you walk out the back of your hotel at any park in WDW???? Heck no! No wait for a bus or a m-rail. Man again all the people that cry about CA I do not think they have ever been to the park...

I'll give DL the one up on MK. Because it really is a magical place, with the superior attractions (Now if it were only a little bigger). But...I really don't get those CA apologists out there. The place is sorely lacking, and not lacking in rides, but lacking in vision. Nowhere near the the artistry WDI has displayed in their more recent parks, AK and TDS. The problem is that California is a damn great state, and I'd much rather drive up the coast and really experience it than go to a theme park. I believe WDI had good intentions on celebrating the state, but the concept is still a bit on the stale side, and I don't see why any locals would think this is a suitable neighboor for the king of all theme parks. Do they forget the great things that were once planned? WESTcot anyone? DisneySeas? Now if DLR had gotten one of these, then I might be jealous. And this is the reason many complain about CA, they know what could have been. Ah, if only the 'Disney Decade' would have gone as planned...