WDW Reopening Estimates

[carolina_yankee]

The bigger question is if they determine it’s safe to open a resort at 50% capacity but not 100% does that apply to DVC too? IMHO unless all these restrictions are really just “security theater” then it has to apply to DVC also. If they decide to restrict it how does that work. It’s not like a cash reservation where they just waive the cancellation fees and the person is made whole. DVC owners have already prepaid for their room between the initial buy-in and maintenance fees. If they cancel your reservation will they allow the points to be banked and used next year which opens a whole other can of worms for next year. I would assume they would cancel reservations in the reverse order of when they were made (newest reservations cancelled first) or they could have a period where they offer volunteers to give up their room for some incentive (think overbooked flight). It’s not an impossible situation but the logistics are a bit challenging.

They would have to have a reason to declare it necessary to reduce capacity to anything less than 100%. If Florida doesn't require Timeshares to reduce capacity (which would basically be some form of confiscating our ownership) or the CDC doesn't recommend, I don't think Disney can say "Well, we prefer it this way" for DVC resorts.

I would think any resort capacity would be to reduce load on amenities or to avoid housing more guests than the reduced park capacities could handle. In that case, they may have to reduce cash capacity, but they couldn't reduce DVC capacity, IMO.

The irony in all of this is that DVC is a guaranteed attendance base, which is great in economic downturns and not so much in a pandemic!

 

[GoofGoof]

I don’t see how they can open the resorts at 100% capacity any time soon. For Florida even in Phase 2 wasn’t there capacity limits? LEGOLAND has already said their hotels are limited to 50% capacity. Universal said nothing one way or the other but those are 3rd party owned. Another interesting tidbit from LEGOLAND. This is from the LEGOLAND site listing new measures for the hotels:

Extra Care When Assigning Rooms:
Everything in our Hotels is AWESOME! And since our #1 goal is to keep you safe, you may need to stay in a differently themed room so we can accommodate 24-72 hours between guests as much as possible. Get ready to switch out your accessories ... you may be going on an unexpected adventure!

So their plan is to leave at least 24 hours between checkin for rooms. DVC can’t do that very effectively. I know Disney can do what they want but they seem to be leaning more conservative. LEGOLAND is opening with no masks and seems a lot less restrictive bit is still capping resort capacity. Will Disney open without resort and DVC capacity limits?

 

[carolina_yankee]

I don’t see how they can open the resorts at 100% capacity any time soon. For Florida even in Phase 2 wasn’t there capacity limits? LEGOLAND has already said their hotels are limited to 50% capacity. Universal said nothing one way or the other but those are 3rd party owned. Another interesting tidbit from LEGOLAND. This is from the LEGOLAND site listing new measures for the hotels:

Extra Care When Assigning Rooms:
Everything in our Hotels is AWESOME! And since our #1 goal is to keep you safe, you may need to stay in a differently themed room so we can accommodate 24-72 hours between guests as much as possible. Get ready to switch out your accessories ... you may be going on an unexpected adventure!

So their plan is to leave at least 24 hours between checkin for rooms. DVC can’t do that very effectively. I know Disney can do what they want but they seem to be leaning more conservative. LEGOLAND is opening with no masks and seems a lot less restrictive bit is still capping resort capacity. Will Disney open without resort and DVC capacity limits?

This is probably why timeshares were exempt from the Governor's orders (assuming they were, I haven't checked, just read on the boards).

I want to see Disney tell their DVC members, "we got you're money and you're not getting anything in return." I don't think it will happen.

 

[GoofGoof]

This is probably why timeshares were exempt from the Governor's orders (assuming they were, I haven't checked, just read on the boards).

I want to see Disney tell their DVC members, "we got you're money and you're not getting anything in return." I don't think it will happen.

It will be interesting to see. That exemption tells me that we are dealing with security measures that are just theater. There’s no way a timeshare building is any different than a hotel building. I know there are differences in how they are used/rented but not differences that matter when it comes to this situation.

 

[carolina_yankee]

It will be interesting to see. That exemption tells me that we are dealing with security measures that are just theater. There’s no way a timeshare building is any different than a hotel building. I know there are differences in how they are used/rented but not differences that matter when it comes to this situation.

The difference could be in the legal authority to ban use or access. Since it is a real estate interest, the state would have to have a compelling reason to take away something that is essentially yours. Why not evict people from their apartment to reduce capacity, etc? I don't know the legal ramifications, but I certainly have questions.

 

[Touchdown]

What’s to stop Disney from compensating DVC members with simply offering an amendment to their rental contracts where they simply extend the lease by one year?

 

[GoofGoof]

The difference could be in the legal authority to ban use or access. Since it is a real estate interest, the state would have to have a compelling reason to take away something that is essentially yours. Why not evict people from their apartment to reduce capacity, etc? I don't know the legal ramifications, but I certainly have questions.

It’s a good point. I think the rules just seem to be all over the place. The government banned private house or condo rentals so even if you have a signed leases you still can’t come. Now that’s a total ban not a 50% capacity issue so not the same. I will be curious to see how they proceed.

What’s to stop Disney from compensating DVC members with simply offering an amendment to their rental contracts where they simply extend the lease by one year?

Disney has the ability to compensate people by offering them an equivalent hotel room in many cases in the same resort. BLT studio reservation gets a room at CR. Some place like SSR or OKW would need to potentially move some people around. The downside to that for Disney is you take away available cash hotel rooms. There’s also the option to allow or require people to push back reservations until capacity increases.

 

[icc2515]

What’s to stop Disney from compensating DVC members with simply offering an amendment to their rental contracts where they simply extend the lease by one year?

They just cannot legally do that. You see DVC is a timeshare not a rental. A while back timeshares got a bad rap because unscrupulous developers bamboozled a lot of people out out a lot of money. This is why disney never uses the word timeshare when talking to people about DVC. Because of these bad developers very strict timeshare laws had to be written. Disney or any other timeshare is not even able to advertise their project until it has reached a certain percent done. Another thing they are not able to legally do is prevent people from using their timeshare, this is a big no no. You can imagine the "bad guys" double selling or selling then booking the rooms for cash and saying that there was an emergency and you had to skip a year. This is why Disney is walking on eggs with DVC. Not allowing owners to use their timeshares right now, when the state of Florida has said that timeshares are open, is setting up a potential huge legal problem for DVCM. They can only justify it to a certain point.

 

[icc2515]

This is probably why timeshares were exempt from the Governor's orders (assuming they were, I haven't checked, just read on the boards)

Here's the link to the State of Florida Phases PDF. The info you want is on page 17 Vacation rentals. It says that Hotels and timeshares are exempt.

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/covid19/Taskforce%20Report.pdf

 

[GoofGoof]

They just cannot legally do that. You see DVC is a timeshare not a rental. A while back timeshares got a bad rap because unscrupulous developers bamboozled a lot of people out out a lot of money. This is why disney never uses the word timeshare when talking to people about DVC. Because of these bad developers very strict timeshare laws had to be written. Disney or any other timeshare is not even able to advertise their project until it has reached a certain percent done. Another thing they are not able to legally do is prevent people from using their timeshare, this is a big no no. You can imagine the "bad guys" double selling or selling then booking the rooms for cash and saying that there was an emergency and you had to skip a year. This is why Disney is walking on eggs with DVC. Not allowing owners to use their timeshares right now, when the state of Florida has said that timeshares are open, is setting up a potential huge legal problem for DVCM. They can only justify it to a certain point.

As an owner I’d be pretty mad if they opened the DVC resorts while the parks were closed and then made me either use my reservation or cancel under the regular cancellation rules. I’m glad they are closed whether its technically legal or not. I don’t think they need to make anyone do anything. They could offer several things that would Probably get enough volunteers to fix any issues.

1. They could either offer equivalent hotel rooms plus some adder like extra FPs or gift cards.
2. For guests that just want to cancel and not rebook they could offer to refund MFs. There’s going to be extra money in the budget since the CMs are furloughed and labor is a decent sized chunk of the fees. They would have to limit that to money available.
3. They could also allow guests to volunteer to cancel and allow them to bank the points into next year like during the closure.

Some combinations of voluntary reductions could avoid any type of lawsuits. I think there’s plenty of people who would be willing to cancel voluntarily without forcing anyone to do it.

 

[jpeden]

As an owner I’d be pretty mad if they opened the DVC resorts while the parks were closed and then made me either use my reservation or cancel under the regular cancellation rules. I’m glad they are closed whether its technically legal or not. I don’t think they need to make anyone do anything. They could offer several things that would Probably get enough volunteers to fix any issues.

1. They could either offer equivalent hotel rooms plus some adder like extra FPs or gift cards.
2. For guests that just want to cancel and not rebook they could offer to refund MFs. There’s going to be extra money in the budget since the CMs are furloughed and labor is a decent sized chunk of the fees. They would have to limit that to money available.
3. They could also allow guests to volunteer to cancel and allow them to bank the points into next year like during the closure.

Some combinations of voluntary reductions could avoid any type of lawsuits. I think there’s plenty of people who would be willing to cancel voluntarily without forcing anyone to do it.

In theory what you’re saying about extra money is correct, but budgeting doesn’t work like that. You’re talking about moving money to different funds (personnel vs non-personnel) and there are accounting rules that come into play.

 

[brianstl]

The CDC changed guidance on surface transmission will make it far easier for parks and hotels to operate.

 

[MrHappy]

@GoofGoof who are you? Man, your contributions to these COVID forums are impressive. Do you sleep? It’s like every other post is a GoofGoof post - which are usually very good!

 

[AugieMorosco]

@GoofGoof who are you? Man, your contributions to these COVID forums are impressive. Do you sleep? It’s like every other post is a GoofGoof post - which are usually very good!

Agree.

 

[GoofGoof]

@GoofGoof who are you? Man, your contributions to these COVID forums are impressive. Do you sleep? It’s like every other post is a GoofGoof post - which are usually very good!

Thanks. Unfortunately I find myself with a lot of time on my hands these days . I’m a big Disney parks fan so I’m anxious to see how this all works out and hoping for the best like everyone else. Traveling is a big hobby for me and Disney is just part of that. It’s crazy to think that the Saturday of Memorial Day weekend last year I was standing at the top (and bottom) of Niagara Falls. We didn’t have anything planned so last minute we decided to pick the kids up from school Friday and drive up there for the weekend. Same weekend this year I can’t even go get a haircut or a beer at a bar. I‘m just glad I‘m healthy and safe and my family is too but all this is getting a little old. I know we will all get through this and I know I’ll be back to WDW someday. For now the best I have is talking about it with all you.

 

[WondersOfLife]

The CDC changed guidance on surface transmission will make it far easier for parks and hotels to operate.

How convenient.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

How convenient.

Not really. Initially a study indicated that chances of surface transmission was low. Then a study of how long the virus survives on surfaces came out and spread like crazy - but it didn't clarify whether the virus was able to infect people from those surfaces. Studies have since been coming out indicating that surface transmission is extremely rare.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Not really. Initially a study indicated that chances of surface transmission was low. Then a study of how long the virus survives on surfaces came out and spread like crazy - but it didn't clarify whether the virus was able to infect people from those surfaces. Studies have since been coming out indicating that surface transmission is extremely rare.

How convenient.

 

[disney4life2008]

What I don't understand is why does the mayor expect Disney to submit plans? They need to just stay closed.

 

[wdwmagic]

What I don't understand is why does the mayor expect Disney to submit plans? They need to just stay closed.

Because Disney has told him they are going to