WDW, Please fast track attractions, crowd level critical

[Gelatoni]

Yes, you can. Just compare the timeline of Slinky Dog Dash to Time Traveler. Many of Disney’s projects take a long time but of course leadership wouldn’t know what to actually cut from the process.

Central Florida effectively abandoned the smaller scale experiences in favor of marquee attractions. The parks need little experiences that people discover, that in their quantity absorb crowds while still having a charm that adds to the day’s experience. Such attractions lack financial justification because nobody will plan a trip around them or point them out on a survey as a reason to visit.

you can't compare a ride and a land.... by all the accounts i remember slinky was long done before the land opened....

 

[smile]

I don’t know what Disney can do about the crowd levels at this juncture, but here are some suggestions.

1) can we speed up the construction timeline for the new attractions. The joke about the parking garages taking 3 years to construct was not far from the truth. Yes, Disney does quality projects. Is putting up a quality attraction and doing it expeditiously possible? Are they mutually exclusive? I think the speed that Star Wars Land has gone up is a good example. The place looks amazing and it didn’t take 3 years to build with its opening in 2019. Let’s pick up the pace on Ratatouille, Guardians and Tron.

2) don’t get rid of future attractions to bring new ones in its place. I’m not a huge fan Mr. Toads at DL. But it still stands, absorbing crowds, delighting patrons of its quirky charm on this C ticket attraction. Disneyland, which has to use the most of their limited space, somehow found space for their new Pooh attraction. Can WDW, with loads of greenspace surrounding the Magic Kingdom, not find a place for new attractions. I was never a fan of Snow White’s Scary Adventure, but how easy would it have been to build a new Princess Hall near Be Our Guest or the Little Mermaid attraction. More attractions absorb more people and give the guest more options. These two aforementioned WDW attractions were not hated like Stitch or Figment, so why not keep them. If an attraction is bad, yes, replace it. Just because it is not a E ticket attraction does not mean it should be scrapped. Compare the number of attractions at Disneyland Park to that of the Magic Kingdom. They’re not even close.

3) stop adding more resorts and rooms until you (WDW) have places for these guest to attend. Expand the parks at a greater rate or let’s get a fifth ticket. Critical mass is here. Watching Happily Ever After with not a inch to spare is more stressful than magical. The fireworks and projections are first rate, as are most things at WDW. That’s why we go. The complaint of most who attend are the wait times and the crowd levels.

I often check the wait times on the Parks app and am amazed at the 2 to 3 hour wait times on the more popular attractions. I used to love WDW at the Holidays. No thanks this year. And it’s not just the holidays. Marathon weekends, Spring Breaks, Flower and Garden, Summer peak, Food and Wine, Halloween, and Christmas...and these seasons and festivals overlap. There is no more slow time. Disney, We Have a Problem.....what’s the plan?

and yet... here we are -
clearly a guest problem, not a twdc problem

 

[lazyboy97o]

you can't compare a ride and a land.... by all the accounts i remember slinky was long done before the land opened....

I’m directly comparing two similar rides by the same manufacturer because their cost and timeline is so radically different. Even Toy Story Land is not some extravagant land that had to take as lon because of safety. Disney could build faster.

 

[etherius1960]

We planned our last visit when statistics showed the park to be the least crowded all year... the second week of February. Turned out to be just as crowded as the middle of summer. Shifting global economies meant that many from different parts of the world, who used to come in the summer, now found February to be the most economical time to visit. So crowded, we went to Universal and, “viola”, wide open spaces (except in Hogwarts).

Got me to thinking. I didn’t see masses of people from France... or Japan. Hmm. Could it be because they had their own Disney parks?

Once it was rumored that Disney was planning to build a park in middle America, but when land prices soared, they backed out. The only win-win here is for Disney to do what all other franchises do... build more parks around the world, in locations represented by currently high ratios of attendees. One in middle America (surely they are creative enough to build around weather conditions), Brazil, Dubai, etc.

Imagine a craving for McDonalds, when there is only two in the US. Or driving eight hours because there is only one Walmart on your side of the Mississippi.

What Disney is, in a sense, doing is just piling up crowds in two main areas. Building a bigger park will only increase the crowds to that one area. It’ll never get better, unless they begin thinking of creative ways to spread the experience to a much broader geographic area.

 

[DavidS1234]

I also wish everyone who wanted to experience WDW could actually afford to visit since it is something special, however, that's just not something that's possible. Disney obviously is a for-profit company and needs to at least cover their costs (which isn't low), and if everyone was able to experience it for cheap, no one would be able to because WDW would always be beyond capacity.

I truly do think the only fix for this on the short term is to dramatically increase prices to decrease the demand of guests, which is the unpopular move that really no one who wants to go to Disney, and especially those who visit frequently, wants.

There actually is another answer. The parks could adopt a reservation-only system/policy for entry. That would allow them to place a hard ceiling on the crowd-levels, while still managing costs. Unfortunately this wouldn't be popular at all with local AP's... but with the crowds getting as bad as they are, that disappointment would probably dissipate over time as ticket holders get back to having a pleasant, relaxing vacation.

 

[bsiev1977]

I agree that it is absolutely too crowded in the parks. I was in WDW from the 22nd to the 28th (including our travel days where we did go to the park) and during the first part of the week, we tried to get there at rope drop to standby for some rides and then use our three FastPasses which started around 11. After several days of complete madness, where it seemed like no matter where we went, we were being packed in like sardine cans within two hours of rope drop and after being lucky enough to have short standby for one or two rides, going standby became ridiculous. After the first couple days, we just accepted getting to the parks between 10 and 11, use our FastPasses and get out of the park.

Forgive me for asking, but what did you expect when you decided to go during what may be the busiest time all year?

 

[Master Yoda]

Central Florida effectively abandoned the smaller scale experiences in favor of marquee attractions. The parks need little experiences that people discover, that in their quantity absorb crowds while still having a charm that adds to the day’s experience. Such attractions lack financial justification because nobody will plan a trip around them or point them out on a survey as a reason to visit.

This^^^

The Fantasyland expansion should have been 6-10 people eating dark rides along the lines Pooh or Peter Pan.

 

[cmb5002]

You can't fast track construction safely... I'd rather 3 months longer than a coaster derailed...

Yeah you can’t just fast track construction like that.

Incorrect. You can always fast track, or to use the industry term, accelerate, work. Not to say that Disney will in this case.

It costs lots of $$$. Add more crews so you have two or even three shifts instead of one. Work the weekends, rephase the work to find efficiencies, etc. I have nightmares about acceleration costs.

As always, you have the trinity of construction. Build it cheap, build it fast, or build it well. Choose two.

 

[clarabellej]

I don’t know what Disney can do about the crowd levels at this juncture, but here are some suggestions.

1) can we speed up the construction timeline for the new attractions. The joke about the parking garages taking 3 years to construct was not far from the truth. Yes, Disney does quality projects. Is putting up a quality attraction and doing it expeditiously possible? Are they mutually exclusive? I think the speed that Star Wars Land has gone up is a good example. The place looks amazing and it didn’t take 3 years to build with its opening in 2019. Let’s pick up the pace on Ratatouille, Guardians and Tron.

2) don’t get rid of future attractions to bring new ones in its place. I’m not a huge fan Mr. Toads at DL. But it still stands, absorbing crowds, delighting patrons of its quirky charm on this C ticket attraction. Disneyland, which has to use the most of their limited space, somehow found space for their new Pooh attraction. Can WDW, with loads of greenspace surrounding the Magic Kingdom, not find a place for new attractions. I was never a fan of Snow White’s Scary Adventure, but how easy would it have been to build a new Princess Hall near Be Our Guest or the Little Mermaid attraction. More attractions absorb more people and give the guest more options. These two aforementioned WDW attractions were not hated like Stitch or Figment, so why not keep them. If an attraction is bad, yes, replace it. Just because it is not a E ticket attraction does not mean it should be scrapped. Compare the number of attractions at Disneyland Park to that of the Magic Kingdom. They’re not even close.

3) stop adding more resorts and rooms until you (WDW) have places for these guest to attend. Expand the parks at a greater rate or let’s get a fifth ticket. Critical mass is here. Watching Happily Ever After with not a inch to spare is more stressful than magical. The fireworks and projections are first rate, as are most things at WDW. That’s why we go. The complaint of most who attend are the wait times and the crowd levels.

I often check the wait times on the Parks app and am amazed at the 2 to 3 hour wait times on the more popular attractions. I used to love WDW at the Holidays. No thanks this year. And it’s not just the holidays. Marathon weekends, Spring Breaks, Flower and Garden, Summer peak, Food and Wine, Halloween, and Christmas...and these seasons and festivals overlap. There is no more slow time. Disney, We Have a Problem.....what’s the plan?

I agree with “critical mass is here.” We always go in Spring during Spring Break which is peak season. So the crowds are no surprise. For World Showcase to become so crowded that we chose to park hop (via boat) to HS was extreme. I also paid for an expensive HEA dessert party at MK in anticipation of the crowds. Following a CM thru the crowd from Tomorrowland Terrace to Plaza Garden reserved viewing area was actually scary.

 

[clarabellej]

February has been bad for quite a few years now. It's the South American summer vacation.

It is also Carnaval time in Brazil. Hoards of tourists invade Brazil and I am sure many families (if they can afford to do so) run away to Disney. They are huge Disney fans.

 

[Christian Fronckowiak]

The way to get them to increase the amount of attractions in development is to vote with your wallet. Don't visit as frequently, and you'll see their reaction and response.

 

[scottriehm]

Forgive me for asking, but what did you expect when you decided to go during what may be the busiest time all year?

He probably assumed that while the big ticket rides like Space Mountain would be long wait times but didn't expect People Mover, Pirates, etc to have 45-125 min wait times.
I mean it's literally to the point now that without rope drop or fast passes you won't be able to do anything and will just be walking around aimlessly in rush hour style pedestrian traffic for the whole day.

Exactly, I expected it to be busy, it's Christmas week, but I didn't expect to wait 20-30 minutes or more for People Mover and no matter which park we were in the entire week, it became very difficult to walk at more than a snail's pace by 10:30 or 11 and smashing shoulders the entire time. We have gone at Christmas for the last 3 years now, and every year it has become drastically more crowded. Now, after our spring break trip in March, we are probably not going back again for quite a while. Obviously, as a Star Wars nerd, I want to see Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge, but I really don't want to deal with the types of crowds that are there year round now. I'm going to wait until there are at least several more drastic changes to WDW and the crowds from the hype for these changes has died down.

 

[scottriehm]

He probably assumed that while the big ticket rides like Space Mountain would be long wait times but didn't expect People Mover, Pirates, etc to have 45-125 min wait times.

It's a Small World and SpaceShip Earth were both at an hour not long after park open. While It's a Small World is one of our must do's every time we go, we chose not to ride this time. With SpaceShip Earth, we think riding it once every 4-5 years is enough, and laughing at the people waiting more than 10 minutes for it is enough entertainment (not in a rude way, just the fact that they're probably going to be pretty disappointed when they realized what they were waiting an hour plus to ride). Big Thunder Mountain and Haunted Mansion were two other rides that had pretty high standby times that were honestly too high to ride and we didn't feel like doing a midnight MK close to ride them so we chose not to ride them either and go to EPCOT to watch Illuminations since we are losing it in 2019.

 

[SirWillow]

It's a Small World and SpaceShip Earth were both at an hour not long after park open.

I'm amazed at the wait times that Small World has now. It was always a walk on up to a 15 minute wait in the past. I really think that Fastpass+ has messed up the standby wait times on that, not just the crowds. But that's a whole personal deal. lol

Spaceship earth is still easy to get short wait times. Just don't go during the times when everyone is coming in the park. It has always had ridiculously long wait times in the first couple of hours that Epcot opens just simply because it's the first thing that people see and so a lot of them all stop there. Go back in the mid afternoons, or even catch it in the evenings/ night on the way out before closing and the lines are much shorter.

 

[SourcererMark79]

As always, you have the trinity of construction. Build it cheap, build it fast, or build it well. Choose two.

Ahh, the two legged stool.

 

[xdan0920]

FWIW. Disney does not see over crowding as a problem. In fact they work to streamline "efficiency" to such a point that the parks always feel over crowded. It's a choice they are making. And in the short term, it sure is boosting the bottom line.

"Don't like it, don't go."

 

[lazyboy97o]

The way to get them to increase the amount of attractions in development is to vote with your wallet. Don't visit as frequently, and you'll see their reaction and response.

Disney doesn’t want excess capacity and still isn’t convinced that rides bring people to the parks. At best, as a last ditch effort after other means, drops in spending and attendance would get some attractions replaced. It would not get entirely new attractions built.

 

[xdan0920]

Disney doesn’t want excess capacity and still isn’t convinced that rides bring people to the parks. At best, as a last ditch effort after other means, drops in spending and attendance would get some attractions replaced. It would not get entirely new attractions built.

Excess capacity seems to be TDO's mortal enemy. The very idea almosts seems a personal affront. The very antithesis to the current business model.

 

[Master Yoda]

Excess capacity seems to be TDO's mortal enemy. The very idea almosts seems a personal affront. The very antithesis to the current business model.

It is the mortal enemy of nearly every business.

Some pay attention to it more than others, but anytime you can break the numbers down to a hourly operating cost and an hourly operating income you can bet that it is someone's job to make sure that the cost comes in under the income.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Excess capacity seems to be TDO's mortal enemy. The very idea almosts seems a personal affront. The very antithesis to the current business model.

Sufficient capacity seems to be their mortal enemy.