WDW July 4 2025

[Lilofan]

I think the free system was more relaxed. I know we had our best vacations then.

Free FP system was one had to be in shape for the early bird gets the worm. When MGM opened up the park in the AM we in 2008 ran full speed to Toy Story Mania, then ran to Tower Of Terror and Rock N Roller to snag our 3FP of the day. When Toy Story opened in 2008, a few savvy guests were selling openly their FP for $10 each for guests who willingly paid instead of waiting several hours at the standby queue.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The other benefit of the free Fastpass+ was that it wasn't a big deal if you missed a return time as it was free. People would still plan dining reservations regardless of FP. Now with paying for it many avoid planning dining cause it costs money to skip return times.

I hadn’t thought about that - and could explain the issue Disney has with filling up restaurants. (In addition to the pricing).

 

[Chi84]

That's the thing as much as most want to believe, Disney wants the parks crowded.

Just the theme parks? Not the water parks or the resort restaurants or gift shops?

 

[Jrb1979]

Just the theme parks? Not the water parks or the resort restaurants or gift shops?

They want them all to be busy. It's why IMO they added the free water park passes for arrival days. Gets guests to go spend money at a park they may have not gone to visit

 

[Chi84]

They want them all to be busy.

They are busy and will continue to be as long as they don’t get too crowded for people to enjoy themselves.

My concern is that they’re losing guests with strange decisions like discontinuing Magical Express and the airline resort service. The place is also getting too expensive.

Disney offering free dining or other promotions is probably in response to well-publicized and justified criticisms of their greedy practices.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Why would I care what they want if the system worked for me? We were able to relax and enjoy all aspects of WDW without paying as we do now for the same experience.

It didn’t work for them…so they dropped the axe on it.

Doesn’t matter what we think

I enjoyed the Biergarten when it was $12.99 for lunch…so I only get to talk about that occasionally now.

Sunrise/sunset

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just the theme parks? Not the water parks or the resort restaurants or gift shops?

Waterparks generate almost zero profit for them. So they don’t really care. If this group of execs had to start over…there is zero chance there’d be a waterpark. It’s part of a strategy they have rejected

 

[Jrb1979]

They are busy and will continue to be as long as they don’t get too crowded for people to enjoy themselves.

My concern is that they’re losing guests with strange decisions like discontinuing Magical Express and the airline resort service. The place is also getting too expensive.

Disney offering free dining or other promotions is probably in response to well-publicized and justified criticisms of their greedy practices.

I agree with you. They are losing guests with their decisions. A lot of that is due to being a public company and needing to beat the last quarter profits.

Yes they are busy but judging from discounts offered, is not up to where they want it to be. My guess is they want to be like it was in 2019. Every restaurant and attraction booked 60 days out.

 

[Chi84]

Waterparks generate almost zero profit for them. So they don’t really care. If this group of execs had to start over…there is zero chance there’d be a waterpark. It’s part of a strategy they have rejected

That’s fine but they generate 100% happiness for my grandkids.

I’m glad this group of execs does not have to start over.

 

[Chi84]

I agree with you. They are losing guests with their decisions. A lot of that is due to being a public company and needing to beat the last quarter profits.

Yes they are busy but judging from discounts offered, is not up to where they want it to be. My guess is they want to be like it was in 2019. Every restaurant and attraction booked 60 days out.

Of course they do. They aren’t alone in that desire.

I’m hoping it takes them some time to get back to those levels because I’m not sure I would pay the extra costs for LLs and parties if everything was as crowded as in 2019.

 

[Jrb1979]

That’s fine but they generate 100% happiness for my grandkids.

I’m glad this group of execs does not have to start over.

I'm glad your grandkids love the water parks. I find it fascinating that people go to them. While the Disney ones are well themed, they are outdated when you compare them to water parks across the country.

 

[Chi84]

I'm glad your grandkids love the water parks. I find it fascinating that people go to them. While the Disney ones are well themed, they are outdated when you compare them to water parks across the country.

They’re 6, 4, 3 and 2. Their taste in water parks is fairly unsophisticated.

 

[Agent H]

I'm glad your grandkids love the water parks. I find it fascinating that people go to them. While the Disney ones are well themed, they are outdated when you compare them to water parks across the country.

How are the water parks “outdated “? Backstories? Timeless. Quality of design? Still holds up. And still has good slides. So I don’t mean to be rude but I’m curious why you think this?

 

[Jrb1979]

How are the water parks “outdated “? Backstories? Timeless. Quality of design? Still holds up. And still has good slides. So I don’t mean to be rude but I’m curious why you think this?

The design and stories aren't the problem. While they have good slides, they are outdated. Look at what water parks across the country have and you would see the difference. Look at Aquatica and the slides they have.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They are busy and will continue to be as long as they don’t get too crowded for people to enjoy themselves.

They are not. I know people flow through here and say they are. But they are objectively not. I assume those individuals do better with tying their shoe laces?

My concern is that they’re losing guests with strange decisions like discontinuing Magical Express and the airline resort service. The place is also getting too expensive.

Those were terrible decisions. And the problem really is corporate hubris they won’t deviate from does not allow them to admit mistakes and fix them. They’d rather just lose customers.

We see them “make stands” all the time that really doesn’t make sense

Disney offering free dining or other promotions is probably in response to well-publicized and justified criticisms of their greedy practices.

Time honored tactic…their effectiveness seams to be waning, however.

 

[Chi84]

They are not. I know people flow through here and say they are. But they are objectively not. I assume those individuals do better with tying their shoe laces?

What individuals are you talking about? Everyone but a handful of posters sees busy parks. A few percentage points drop in attendance doesn’t mean the parks aren’t busy. Almost no one would even notice such a small drop.

 

[Nubs70]

Just to go to this one a little

You’re correct…few could spot 5 bodies missing per 100…the net effect on the eyes isn’t much to spot.

But it’s possible.

Empty concourses is a different matter.

That would be anecdotal IF the shops, restaurants were juiced. Not the case at all…not even close

So eliminate that and what’s the only other possibility? Everyone in the park is in long lines…so nobody lagging in between them.

Let’s assume that the suggestion that people are pounding lines at a much higher rate than they traditionally had prior because the prices are higher and makes it more of a go to strategy…and also lightning lane increases the line push with the cost pressure it puts on the park.

That seems a possibility. Something reasonable that would also load your data and not indicate attendance drops via line tracking. I can see it.

The problem if that’s true is they screwed up. Disney parks were not built to be packed with ride queues. By design…the elements were supposed to support each other.
That’s bad for business. Nobody spends in line. They make free cash off lighting lane and lose a significant chunk of it with people in the lines too much. That’s stupid.
They never wanted somebody to enter…go to first line…the proceed clockwise to next line for 12 hours, and maybe hit the corndog stand twice a day for 10 minutes in between lines.

That’s a total Disney fail if that’s where it’s heading.

Everyone knows where cedar point is if they want that.

Packed lines was a loss. Once upon a time…a system was divised to lower that as much as possible…I bet some of us here have heard of it/remember it?

What if Bioreconstruct could take aerials of the parking lots and someone develop an AI algorithm to count cars in the parking lots?

I surmise a function of park lot car count, resort room occupancy, and resort lot car count could "define" crowd levels on a quarterly level.

 

[Chi84]

What if Bioreconstruct could take aerials of the parking lots and someone develop an AI algorithm to count cars in the parking lots?

I surmise a function of park lot car count, resort room occupancy, and resort lot car count could "define" crowd levels on a quarterly level.

Do you know how many people fly, then Uber to the resort and take Disney transportation?

Of course it was cheaper and easier with Magical Express.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What individuals are you talking about? Everyone but a handful of posters sees busy parks. A few percentage points drop in attendance doesn’t mean the parks aren’t busy. Almost no one would even notice such a small drop.

It’s not hard to find…there are many threads. Chances are in either parks threads…or more likely planning threads theres at least a handful of comments suggesting large Crowds each day

Many are probably unaware…which is easy to understand
Also some state that and “shout at the moon” because they just love it SOOO much that they don’t want to entertain that everyone doesn’t want to flood it daily.

And some are Emps that like to think more people and more “riches” will be there before rent is due. Drops in attendance have the most tangible effect on them. I get it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What if Bioreconstruct could take aerials of the parking lots and someone develop an AI algorithm to count cars in the parking lots?

I surmise a function of park lot car count, resort room occupancy, and resort lot car count could "define" crowd levels on a quarterly level.

Maybe…but it wouldn’t properly account for traffic from off properly sources via buses, Lyfts, etc