Water near Castle Walls - artistic license or more?

[Ignohippo]

The castle wall is brilliant as a story-telling & place-making device: the idea being separation of tamed townscape vs wilder nature... venturing out 'into the woods'. As mentioned above and elsewhere, there is a distinct difference in the architectural application (aged, sagging, hyper-detailed vs. clean, straight, gingerbread) of the new & old FL, and the walls help mitigate what could be an awkward clash of styles.

The wall won't be going anywhere in 15 years time, which is a very good thing.



Sidenote of interest: That pixie spinner concept was the same ride as Mater's Jamboree at DCA but dressed differently... it's about 50% bigger footprint than the standard Dis spinner.

The clash of styles is easily rectified by the hills (and trees) of the SWMT area.

We'll just see how long the walls last.

It isn't new knowledge that the pixie spinner is the same as Mater's. That was simply an example. Either way, it would easily fit in the area.

 

[RandySavage]

A ride the size of Maters (Pixie ride) wouldn't easily fit in the castle wall zone. It has a pretty big footprint (bigger than the mermaid showbuilding: http://www.flickr.com/photos/63631877@N00/5477347107/sizes/o/in/photostream/).

But I think your mockup is interesting in that something like a fantasy-version of the Slinky Dog spinner from Paris would fit (just as Dumbo did). I myself prefer the walls as I think the strong visual separation makes the land much more interesting, but we're not all going to be of the same opinion.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The Castle walls establish what we know - three clearly defined areas of Fantasyland: Castle Forecourt, Enchanted Forest, and Storybook Circus. There have been park maps leaked with these labels on them.

 

[MissM]

The Castle walls establish what we know - three clearly defined areas of Fantasyland: Castle Forecourt, Enchanted Forest, and Storybook Circus.

I have to say, I wasn't a fan of them in the early drawings. It seemed like it was such a big blocked off waste of space. In person though, if you haven't seen them, it really works. They look great, it feels very natural and flow is not impeded at all. I've definitely changed my opinion on them after seeing them finished and how they fit in.

 

[Ignohippo]

I have to say, I wasn't a fan of them in the early drawings. It seemed like it was such a big blocked off waste of space. In person though, if you haven't seen them, it really works. They look great, it feels very natural and flow is not impeded at all. I've definitely changed my opinion on them after seeing them finished and how they fit in.

MissM, I generally agree with everything you say, but can't on this one. I just don't get them. Even after seeing them in person. They're nice, but completely unnecessary.

Perhaps I would feel differently if the FLE had more substance, but I just found the whole thing to be somewhat silly. I don't think there's enough to the FLE to justify walling off the section. IMO, you've now created 3 distinct areas of Fantasyland (which is unnecessary since it should all work as one area). Instead of one great Fantasyland, it feels like 3 very mediocre lands – the area to the east with Philharmagic, Peter Pan and IASW; the area to the west with Pooh, Tea Cups and the PFH; and the FLE. It all felt incredibly disjointed to me.

 

[MissM]

MissM, I generally agree with everything you say, but can't on this one. I just don't get them. Even after seeing them in person. They're nice, but completely unnecessary.

Oh I don't disagree that they're "necessary." They certainly aren't a requirement by any stretch of the imagination. I just think they turned out a lot nicer than I had imagined and aren't as intrusive as I thought they would be. I feel they do a good job adding more general theming to the area.

Perhaps I would feel differently if the FLE had more substance, but I just found the whole thing to be somewhat silly. I don't think there's enough to the FLE to justify walling off the section. IMO, you've now created 3 distinct areas of Fantasyland (which is unnecessary since it should all work as one area). Instead of one great Fantasyland, it feels like 3 very mediocre lands – the area to the east with Philharmagic, Peter Pan and IASW; the area to the west with Pooh, Tea Cups and the PFH; and the FLE. It all felt incredibly disjointed to me.

I can respect that. And I can see where you're coming from. I do think that New Fantasyland is MUCH more flash than substance. It looks absolutely stunning but I can't really see myself needing to go in there very often. Which is certainly a bit of a letdown. So much waiting and...I feel like been there, done that. (A rare feeling at Disney for me. Most things tend to be MUCH more repeat-visit friendly, IMHO.)

I guess looking at it from merely an aesthetic stance, I like them. Because for me, the FLE is primarily an aesthetic addition.

 

[Ignohippo]

Oh I don't disagree that they're "necessary." They certainly aren't a requirement by any stretch of the imagination. I just think they turned out a lot nicer than I had imagined and aren't as intrusive as I thought they would be. I feel they do a good job adding more general theming to the area.


I can respect that. And I can see where you're coming from. I do think that New Fantasyland is MUCH more flash than substance. It looks absolutely stunning but I can't really see myself needing to go in there very often. Which is certainly a bit of a letdown. So much waiting and...I feel like been there, done that. (A rare feeling at Disney for me. Most things tend to be MUCH more repeat-visit friendly, IMHO.)

I guess looking at it from merely an aesthetic stance, I like them. Because for me, the FLE is primarily an aesthetic addition.

Well put (as always). I guess my primary disappointment is that I just don't feel like Fantasyland is one exciting land anymore. The castle walls are nice looking, but sadly they make Fantasyland feel like "this section" and "that section". Hopefully, the SWMT will change that feeling and will help to unite the area.

I was sincerely hoping that this addition would finally bring our Fantasyland up to (or exceed) DL's version, but I don't think they're still even close. Circusland and the castle walls are the two things standing in the way of that for me. If the FLE would have continued on where CL is now (as was originally planned), the castle walls would have made more sense. As it is now though, I feel like it's walling off a section that simply isn't substantial enough to deserve to be it's own area.

 

[Ignohippo]

I can respect that. And I can see where you're coming from. I do think that New Fantasyland is MUCH more flash than substance. It looks absolutely stunning but I can't really see myself needing to go in there very often. Which is certainly a bit of a letdown. So much waiting and...I feel like been there, done that. (A rare feeling at Disney for me. Most things tend to be MUCH more repeat-visit friendly, IMHO.)

I guess looking at it from merely an aesthetic stance, I like them. Because for me, the FLE is primarily an aesthetic addition.

It's especially a letdown knowing how much money went into it and what other parks have been able to build with a similar budget.

As far as aesthetics, I felt like you were never allowed the opportunity to get far enough away from the buildings to really be able to appreciate them. Seeing it in person, I was shocked at how much smaller the area is than I had imagined. BatB is WAY too close to TLM and it looks like the SWMT will be very close as well.

The World Showcase works because you can see the countries from a distance and really take the aesthetics in. Unfortunately, the FLE is too small of an area to get that same kind of effect. You don't see BatB or TLM until you are right on top of them. IMO, the castle walls only serve to inhibit the views that much more. It's a shame because the architecture of the new expansion is good enough that you want to be able to see it and enjoy it from a distance.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Perhaps I would feel differently if the FLE had more substance, but I just found the whole thing to be somewhat silly. I don't think there's enough to the FLE to justify walling off the section. IMO, you've now created 3 distinct areas of Fantasyland (which is unnecessary since it should all work as one area). Instead of one great Fantasyland, it feels like 3 very mediocre lands – the area to the east with Philharmagic, Peter Pan and IASW; the area to the west with Pooh, Tea Cups and the PFH; and the FLE. It all felt incredibly disjointed to me.

I respect you not liking the walls, but you're not getting the 3 distinct areas of Fantasyland correct.

Pooh, the Tea Cups, the Mine Train, Little Mermaid and BatB are all part of the same area, aka the forest.
and Peter Pan, iasw, Philharmagic, the Carousel and the PFH are inside the courtyard.
and the circus is the 3rd area, of course.

It may feel disjointed right now because the Mine Train is just sitting in the middle of everything still under construction.

 

[Ignohippo]

I respect you not liking the walls, but you're not getting the 3 distinct areas of Fantasyland correct.

Pooh, the Tea Cups, the Mine Train, Little Mermaid and BatB are all part of the same area, aka the forest.
and Peter Pan, iasw, Philharmagic, the Carousel and the PFH are inside the courtyard.
and the circus is the 3rd area, of course.

It may feel disjointed right now because the Mine Train is just sitting in the middle of everything still under construction.

That's exactly it. I know what the areas are supposed to be. Sadly though, that isn't the way it feels when you're actually there.

 

[Tom]

It's especially a letdown knowing how much money went into it and what other parks have been able to build with a similar budget.

As far as aesthetics, I felt like you were never allowed the opportunity to get far enough away from the buildings to really be able to appreciate them. Seeing it in person, I was shocked at how much smaller the area is than I had imagined. BatB is WAY too close to TLM and it looks like the SWMT will be very close as well.

The World Showcase works because you can see the countries from a distance and really take the aesthetics in. Unfortunately, the FLE is too small of an area to get that same kind of effect. You don't see BatB or TLM until you are right on top of them. IMO, the castle walls only serve to inhibit the views that much more. It's a shame because the architecture of the new expansion is good enough that you want to be able to see it and enjoy it from a distance.

I'll be writing up a trip report (as if anyone wants to read another one) after we get home Saturday, but we've experienced FLE at daytime and nighttime (yesterday and today). After seeing all the aerials, blueprints and photos, I was quite shocked with how compact it felt. And I read blueprints for a living!

I think when the mine train walls come down, it will open up quite a bit...the walls are kind of oppressive when you're walking down that corridor in front of BatB and LM. And when they're working on the mine train (i.e. weekdays), they close off the path to the circus, so you have to walk all the way around the mine train and past Tea Cups to get there.

The place looks great, but it really does feel a lot smaller than it looked. Anxious to experience it when the rest of the walls are down and mine train is open.

 

[Ignohippo]

I'll be writing up a trip report (as if anyone wants to read another one) after we get home Saturday, but we've experienced FLE at daytime and nighttime (yesterday and today). After seeing all the aerials, blueprints and photos, I was quite shocked with how compact it felt. And I read blueprints for a living!

I think when the mine train walls come down, it will open up quite a bit...the walls are kind of oppressive when you're walking down that corridor in front of BatB and LM. And when they're working on the mine train (i.e. weekdays), they close off the path to the circus, so you have to walk all the way around the mine train and past Tea Cups to get there.

The place looks great, but it really does feel a lot smaller than it looked. Anxious to experience it when the rest of the walls are down and mine train is open.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Can't wait to hear your trip report.

My concern is that the Mine Train is still incredibly close to TLM. The SWMT is tall, and it seems they're building some sort of cottage on the back end (right across from TLM – like literally 25 feet from the entrance). I don't know what their thinking is, but I'm afraid it'll intrude on the aesthetics of TLM even more.

As it is, I feel like TLM is too close to everything now. If it's supposed to be a seaside castle, where's the water? The little pond in the queue doesn't really get the job done as I thought it may. Having a cottage right across from the entrance will only further wreck the illusion.

 

[bdearl41]

I highly doubt there ends up being a pond here. Logistics behind it are difficult, and it would be and expensive, and arbitrary project. Hopefully Disney finds it in their wisdom to put a form of street performing, village crafts, caravan like thing here. That would make money and be low cost. From a buisness and entertainment perspective its a great idea. It doesn't ruin the ambiance of the "forest" either becasue its "inside" the castle walls.

 

[Pinhead]

The third castle wall probably represents the castle wall on top of Pooh, as there's a large tree in front of it in the artwork.

That building is where Pooh's fastpass supposedly will go... but it looks too big for only that

The more I stare at the artwork, the more I'm thinking that the Dwarfs' (sic) cottage will be the gift shop and the string of buildings opposite Pooh will be the loading area for the Mine Train.
Have I missed any posting that would definitively undermine this notion?

 

[danlb_2000]

The more I stare at the artwork, the more I'm thinking that the Dwarfs' (sic) cottage will be the gift shop and the string of buildings opposite Pooh will be the loading area for the Mine Train.
Have I missed any posting that would definitively undermine this notion?

Yes, Lee has said that the cottage is just a prop, there will be nothing inside it but it will be close to the exit from the ride. It's still not clear what the other building will be.