Was GOTG placed in the right park?

Does GOTG: Cosmic Rewind fit in Epcot

  • Yes

  • No

  • I never cared to begin with

  • I've given up on caring


Results are only viewable after voting.

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
Don't expect an echo chamber. Epcot started as a plan by Walt. Walt passed and his plan was turned into something else loosely based on Edutainment and a permanent Worlds Fair with corporate and country sponsors. They were not able to keep up with the changes in technology, availability of transportation, and geopolitics. They've kept the doors open while trying to figure out where the demand is exactly for the current and future customers. Its turned out to be a mix of things.
I'm not expecting an echo chamber. I was wanting to move my debates to a new thread. I am ALL for this topic and conversation.

They we able to keep up. They just decided not to. Heck, a lot of the concepts didn't really involve keeping up with technology outside of Communicore. Soarin' was acceptable, for instance. Test Track also fits. Heck, even my least favorite attraction Mission: Space fits.

Frozen? No. Nemo? Eh. Guardians? Blah. Come on... You can't tell me they could have done better. Soarin' and Test Track to this day are still headliner attractions without the use of IP... And they aren't even the best versions of themselves.
 
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WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
Oh, look - a conversation about something that won’t change either way.
Dang. Imagine a concept... So CRAZY .. that fans can TALK about stuff that they like to be fans about. Crazy. Sooooo crazy.
Fom a business perspective, one day ticket prices are very high. I’m sure some people are not hitting all 4 parks. If they go to Epcot, they’ll get Marvel, Frozen, Ratatouille, multinational cuisine, drinks, and an aquarium. Something for everyone in the family.
I just don't understand how this is acceptable and is Disney's best option? It's still a continuation of "Eh. It's good enough."
 

Surfin' Tuna

Well-Known Member
Is there anyone who truly thinks it belongs in Epcot? It certainly doesn't belong in the original idea of Epcot, and it doesn't even fit in the Epcot when they decided to do it. I suppose anything belongs in Epcot of today, though.

If we're being honest, it should have gone in Hollywood Studios and Tron in Epcot - if we are forced to use these two. Guardians is at least mildly enjoyable for what it is, but it is a bad fit and there were better options for the spend. In the long run, theme still matters. In the short term, shiny and new looks nice on social media though.
 

BlakeW39

Well-Known Member
"Fun is cheap. I can have fun in an inflatable pool in my backyard. I can have fun playing basketball by the garage. I can have fun watching videos of snarky cats. This fun costs very little. An inflatable pool costs 50 bucks or less and can be used many times. A trip to a major entertainment venue like a Broadway play or Theme Park can cost many hundreds of dollars per visit, all in. So…are these places just plain fun? Are they hundreds or thousands of times more fun than shooting silly string at each other on the porch? Probably not. Therefore, fun cannot possibly be the motivating factor in the compulsive, repetitive, over-scale patronage of the theme park industry. The motive is simply not competitive enough based on other options. People must be paying this kind of money and making this kind of effort for a reward that is of higher value, more rare, and of greater impact than fun. That reward is many things, among which is the sensation of transport, of being moved magically into another place or another time. It is the intensity of experience which results in permanent memories. It is the rare sensation of cohesiveness, harmony, and thematic organization which allows the human brain to relax and be absorbed. I could go on. But all of these properties reside in the obsessive execution of coordinated detail, resulting in places with a strange otherworldly attraction. And that is not cheap. In fact, theme parks are repositories of human time, effort, and, yes, money…which guests sense through the level of detail, organization, and intensity. Theme parks are a form of communication between designers and audiences… They are relationships. People like worthy, meaningful, invested relationships… Not cheap ones."
- Joe Rohde

Yea... Test Track truly screams "Space" to me. lol

and @bmr1591

This is what I hate... The whole "well, it's a good ride, so why complain?" mentality. All of the 'new' fans think this way, and it really does hurt the quality involving the intricate details of the parks. It is a shame.

The argument that theme parks are supposed to just be "fun" or "entertaining" is a way for modern Disney shills to dismiss any and all fair criticism of the parks as an art form, because "oh stop being negative it's just supposed to be fun." It's anti-intellectual drivel that comes from a broader mindset which argues that no popular art needs to be thought about intellectually, because "it's entertainment so stop spending so much time ruining the fun with your over-intellectual BS." These are the kinds of people who tell you not to criticize summer blockbusters because they're just "popcorn flicks" which are meant to be 'enjoyable,' i.e. most of Disney's films these days.

Well, like it or not but the parks are kind of artistic expression and storytelling. They should strive for well crafted art and well told stories. As such, they warrant artistic criticism and analysis. Why would there be a forum website like WDWMagic if the parks had no more depth than just being dumb fun for idiots or people who need to turn their tiny brains off in order to enjoy something? The parks should be more than the sum of their parts and that includes having a unified artistic direction. This includes the underlying themes tying everything in the park together. And the fact of the matter is that GotG:CR does not abide by the themes of EPCOT or use them to tell its story.
 
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networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
I'll just limit myself to my viewpoint. It's fine where they decided to place it. There was plenty of available expansion space due to many closed locations that were formerly supported by external sponsors. It added an attraction capable of 2,000 guest rides per hour of operation and provided an internally consistent narrative storyline from start to finish along with a rotating sound track of popular songs from previous decades.
 
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wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
At least they kinda tried to make it fit by making the general premis of it be similar to a World Showcase pavilion. If they just lifted it (as is) and put it in HS, I still don't think it would have fit. They would have needed to design a whole new entrance premises and likely would have needed to create a whole land/mini land around it for it to make sense...
Negative, Ghostrider.

They could have just dropped this attraction anywhere in HS (sans Galaxys Edge) and it would have been a better fit than Epcot.

And you could just slap the old, "Peter Quill visited HS as a kid" nonsense on it.
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
I'll just limit myself to my viewpoint. It's fine where they decided to place it. There was plenty of available expansion space due to many closed locations that were formerly supported by external sponsors. It added an attraction capable of 2,000 guest rides per hour of operation and provided an internally consistent narrative storyline from start to finish along with a rotating sound track of popular songs from previous decades.
That's your logistics standpoint.... Logistics have always been a solid argument... But what about your thematic standpoint?
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
Negative, Ghostrider.

They could have just dropped this attraction anywhere in HS (sans Galaxys Edge) and it would have been a better fit than Epcot.

And you could just slap the old, "Peter Quill visited HS as a kid" nonsense on it.
Facts...

...There was a time where I could have argued that it wouldn't fit in HS, either.... Nowadays, Indiana Jones and Muppets are the oddballs because the park is SOOOOO far away from what it used to be...

...Epcot still has more Epcot-themed elements left in comparison to HS's original theme with The Land Pavilion, SSE, a vast majority of World Showcase, TT, M:S, Space 220, The Seas to an extent, and Imagination.... The idea of Epcot is still there as a walking zombie...

...As opposed to MGM Studios' last two remaining crawlers...
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
It doesn’t fit in the original EPCOT Center. In todays EPCOT, it doesn’t matter.

My biggest gripe has always been they replace attractions instead of adding attractions. The energy pavilion should have stayed; changed to talk about alternative energy and ADD GOTG as a new attraction.

Please don’t tell me they can’t afford it. I used to think that until I saw how much money they are willing to flush down the toilet on Disney+
 

BlakeW39

Well-Known Member
Facts...

...There was a time where I could have argued that it wouldn't fit in HS, either.... Nowadays, Indiana Jones and Muppets are the oddballs because the park is SOOOOO far away from what it used to be...

...Epcot still has more Epcot-themed elements left in comparison to HS's original theme with The Land Pavilion, SSE, a vast majority of World Showcase, TT, M:S, Space 220, The Seas to an extent, and Imagination.... The idea of Epcot is still there as a walking zombie...

...As opposed to MGM Studios' last two remaining crawlers...

EPCOT definitely still has similar themes to the ones it had on opening day. It just isn't as consistent with them anymore. However as consumers it's our responsibility to hold them to a higher standard and therefore the park can and should be criticized for its very disorganized and thematically unfocused/inconsistent nature.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
That's your logistics standpoint.... Logistics have always been a solid argument... But what about your thematic standpoint?

I see we're going to still circle back to the inclusion of intellectual property, which IMHO is just swapping out one fabrication with another. Historical fable vs modern fiction, who is the arbiter of which is more "real"? Singing anthropomorphic vegetables or a Snowman? A body controlled by a driver pulling levers and pushing buttons or a rat that makes vegetarian meals? The whole Communicor area brought up to modern levels of converged miniaturized technology wouldn't fill one of the retail kiosks on the way to World Showcase.
 

WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
I see we're going to still circle back to the inclusion of intellectual property, which IMHO is just swapping out one fabrication with another. Historical fable vs modern fiction, who is the arbiter of which is more "real"? Singing anthropomorphic vegetables or a Snowman? A body controlled by a driver pulling levers and pushing buttons or a rat that makes vegetarian meals?
Original attractions with original characters specifically designed for an original park. And it is extremely sad that the company which has ALWAYS told us they are the kings of storytelling cannot do this anymore... Heck... They can hardly even make a new movie based on a public domain story anymore... Re-makes re-makes re-makes....

The topic of IP-shoving is completely necessary when talking about the terrible direction EPCOT has faced...

My argumentative stance was that EPCOT was different from the other parks. You could get something that the other parks didn't offer... Whether that be the attraction experiences themselves, or the new characters SPECIFICALLY designed for this park from the get-go, which in and of itself doesn't feel half-A**ed as just using IPs.

IPs are not the most important thing in EPCOT's failing story... But it is certainly a HUGE chunk as to why it is making the park really suck... At least for those that care.
 

Wilbret

Well-Known Member
at least they didn’t construct a ginormous, hulking building for it that overshadows the ole Epcot “ball” when you see the park from a distance.

Wait, what?
 

Alanzo

Well-Known Member
The original park quickly became edutainment focused which became kind of antiquated in the internet age.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
I see we're going to still circle back to the inclusion of intellectual property, which IMHO is just swapping out one fabrication with another. Historical fable vs modern fiction, who is the arbiter of which is more "real"? Singing anthropomorphic vegetables or a Snowman? A body controlled by a driver pulling levers and pushing buttons or a rat that makes vegetarian meals? The whole Communicor area brought up to modern levels of converged miniaturized technology wouldn't fill one of the retail kiosks on the way to World Showcase.
IMO, the difference is that the EPCOT attractions such as Kitchen Kabaret, WOL, Maelstrom, etc offered a completely different form of entertainment. Same for MGM Studios which used IP in its own unique way different from MK.

This created distinction and allowed each park to have its own identity which is far beyond simply swapping one fabrication for another.

Now the IP is all used in the same fashion and each park is slowly becoming MK. And don't get me wrong, I enjoy Frozen Ever After, Ratatouille, Cosmic Rewind, Runaway Railway. They're just in the wrong parks.

And I agree that Communicore wouldn't work in this day and age, but that doesn't justify lazy imagineering and abandoning the identity of the park.
 

Br0ckford

Premium Member
IMO, the difference is that the EPCOT attractions such as Kitchen Kabaret, WOL, Maelstrom, etc offered a completely different form of entertainment. Same for MGM Studios which used IP in its own unique way different from MK.

This created distinction and allowed each park to have its own identity which is far beyond simply swapping one fabrication for another.

Now the IP is all used in the same fashion and each park is slowly becoming MK. And don't get me wrong, I enjoy Frozen Ever After, Ratatouille, Cosmic Rewind, Runaway Railway. They're just in the wrong parks.

And I agree that Communicore wouldn't work in this day and age, but that doesn't justify lazy imagineering and abandoning the identity of the park.
Agree. The rides in World Showcase should teach you about the country. What does Frozen boat teach about Norway? What does Rat car teach about France? What does GOTG teach about space? Great rides all, but alas, Epcot is not EPCOT as some have pointed out.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
That several current EPCOT rides and characters also exist at Disney Studios Paris says a lot about how the park doesn't have a unique identity or purpose anymore. All Disney theme parks are interchangeable in the eyes of management.

Frozen being the prime example. Come 2025, Frozen Ever After will be operating in EPCOT, Hong Kong Disneyland and Disney Studios Paris...with another Frozen ride at Tokyo DisneySea. If Frozen fits anywhere, what makes these parks special?
 
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WondersOfLife

Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Original Poster
The original park quickly became edutainment focused which became kind of antiquated in the internet age.
Then you adjust but still focusing on the point of Epcot, as I said before... Wonders of Life, Test Track, Soarin', and even Mission: Space had the right idea for taking the park in a new direction... Then it just sort of... Stopped.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
One of the big things about the Marvel brand is that it's all of these separate franchises that exist in the same world. I feel theme park versions of that brand should replicate that.

Now Guardians is the easiest Marvel franchise to separate from the others, since it takes place in space vs Earth. But it would've been a really good anchor for a potential WDW Marvel land.

& I don't think Marvel belongs in either EPCOT or Animal Kingdom; maaaaybe Iron Man or Ant-Man in EPCOT, but only if it was really tech focused & they can't even do that anyway. I feel like Magic Kingdom would be pushing it too tbh. Hollywood Studios is the perfect place for Marvel. This is coming from a massive Marvel fan too (comics & movies), so I'm not all "Ewww, Marvel bad".
WDW can't have a Marvel land.

They can't even use the name Marvel inside the parks, much less, most of the characters so far introduced in the MCU.

That's a total non-starter.
 
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MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Negative, Ghostrider.

They could have just dropped this attraction anywhere in HS (sans Galaxys Edge) and it would have been a better fit than Epcot.

And you could just slap the old, "Peter Quill visited HS as a kid" nonsense on it.
Or not have even have to bother with a clunky backstory excuse to explain its placement since that's actually a park about Hollywood and movies. It wouldn't have needed it's own fully themed land anymore than the Indiana Stunt or Beauty and the Beast shows do.

Star Tours existed perfectly fine for decades without its own exclusive Star Wars land..

This whole idea of devoting an entire land to one or one big and one lame attraction feels like nothing more than a general waste of space and an excuse to cram more land-specific shopping into space that would have once been utilized for better guest-facing stuff.

We didn't need a Peter Pan Land or Winnie the Pooh land to have these attractions and nobody is saying Fantasyland is poorly themed.

Universal started this whole thing with Simposons and it's gotten out of control ever since. (at least with HP, they have been and still are working to expand those lands into the future)

Now, they get to push shopping and a restaurant like they are actually major attraction experiences because they are half of a "Land" devoted to only one major attraction anyone cares about in the area. :rolleyes:

I think this is also why people see no room for stuff. They've been conditioned to think a new attraction needs at least one new restaurant of some sort and a shop to go with it.
 
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