Was Disney World better years ago? Your thoughts.

[Goofyernmost]

I think everyone should have to disclose their age when they comment on this topic.

"Everything was awesome when it was cheaper..."

...because you were 9 years old in 1987, your parents paid for everything, and you viewed the world with the wonder of a child.

OK, I was 35 years old. I wasn't looking at it through rose colored glasses. I was blown away simply because I hadn't imagined it to be what it was. Huge, well kept and fun. That was in 1983 so I have seen most of the changes since the beginning and I just explained my feelings about it on the previous page.

 

[Heppenheimer]

In the days before fastpass+ there wasn't this advance planning like you're thinking of. No ride reservations, approach it as you go. Genie will actually bring back a lot of that.

I'm guessing you also haven't used MaxPass. I've only run into a couple that used both that didn't like MaxPass at Disneyland much better than fastpass+

It's ok to not have to plan your day down to the minute 2 months ahead of time and be locked into a schedule at the parks. really. That's actually one way that the parks are much worse off than they had been in the past.

Back when I lived in Europe, I would hang out in various travel forums. I sort of established a reputation at the resident "German and Belgian" expert (I lived in the former and visited family in the latter at least monthly). People would ask for constructive advice on their proposed itineraries, and I would give it. The biggest mistake I saw was trying to overplan everything in advanced. While it's good to have lodging and some transportation pre-booked, trips tightly planned without the benefit of a short-term weather forecast, transportation or traffic reports tend to break down rather quickly and end up causing unnecessary stress. And, most people who try to overplan seriously underestimate their travel stamina. This is exactly how I felt with pre-pandemic advanced dining and fast pass reservations. There's nothing worse for me than being on vacation and needing to hit an endless series of time checks. Even moreso now that I have kids.

 

[graphite1326]

yes

 

[Djsfantasi]

Back when I lived in Europe, I would hang out in various travel forums. I sort of established a reputation at the resident "German and Belgian" expert (I lived in the former and visited family in the latter at least monthly). People would ask for constructive advice on their proposed itineraries, and I would give it. The biggest mistake I saw was trying to overplan everything in advanced. While it's good to have lodging and some transportation pre-booked, trips tightly planned without the benefit of a short-term weather forecast, transportation or traffic reports tend to break down rather quickly and end up causing unnecessary stress. And, most people who try to overplan seriously underestimate their travel stamina. This is exactly how I felt with pre-pandemic advanced dining and fast pass reservations. There's nothing worse for me than being on vacation and needing to hit an endless series of time checks. Even moreso now that I have kids.

Depends on the person. I’m an elderly man, who has little or no exercise.

But with Fastpass+ and ADR, I could hit MK, enjoy 12 attractions, eat two QS and a TS meal, walk about 9 miles a day… and feel fine. Fastpass+ and ADR let me do everything I wanted in a day. And the same for the other three parks! I had a perfect vacation.

Now, I guarantee that’s impossible. First, I’m not a morning people so getting up at 7:00am ain’t gonna happen. Second, it took me 3 years to get on RotR and then it took 2 people, 4 devices and 2 attempts.

And that’s for 1 ride! I can’t imagine the probability of getting 3 rides. My impression of Genie+ is more money for less satisfaction.

Guess what? I won’t be returning to WDW.

 

[Parker in NYC]

You know what doesn't hold up AT ALL?

Old Epcot. Don't @ me, just watch Kitchen Kabaret on YouTube and tell me it represents the absolute peak of themed entertainment.

The same goes for Horizons, World of Motion, all of it.

Seems consistent.

 

[Heppenheimer]

You know what doesn't hold up AT ALL?

Old Epcot. Don't @ me, just watch Kitchen Kabaret on YouTube and tell me it represents the absolute peak of themed entertainment.

The same goes for Horizons, World of Motion, all of it.

When I'm old and demented, I'm pretty sure the last words I'll still be able to articulate are "In the tiki-tiki-tiki-tiki room" and "Veggie, fruit-fruit, veggie veggie, fruit-fruit". It will probably confuse the hell out of the nurses taking care of me.

 

[Djsfantasi]

*Yes they had corporate sponsors but were not attractions about the company sponsoring them.

I agree. I don’t feel like traveling a long distance to experience a lot of tv/movie reruns. I’ve seen Frozen, Ratatouille, found Nemo, watched the Princess and the Frog.

I go to Disney to experience first-hand their creativity, their story-telling,their art. IP attractions are boring reruns.

As more IP is brought into the park, my interests have waned. Then when when management displays a lack of understanding with regards to my vacation style…

What am I to do?

 

[Tom Morrow]

I agree. I don’t feel like traveling a long distance to experience a lot of tv/movie reruns. I’ve seen Frozen, Ratatouille, found Nemo, watched the Princess and the Frog.

I go to Disney to experience first-hand their creativity, their story-telling,their art. IP attractions are boring reruns.

As more IP is brought into the park, my interests have waned. Then when when management displays a lack of understanding with regards to my vacation style…

What am I to do?

The only thing that will work is to stop opening your wallet to them. It may not do much because so many people are are addicted to the brand, but in the long run it might.

 

[UNCgolf]

You know what doesn't hold up AT ALL?

Old Epcot. Don't @ me, just watch Kitchen Kabaret on YouTube and tell me it represents the absolute peak of themed entertainment.

The same goes for Horizons, World of Motion, all of it.

I think it's relative to interests/tastes.

While Horizons would have needed updates, World of Motion as it originally existed would still be a top 10-15 attraction at WDW right now to me just like Spaceship Earth. I don't see any reason why a modern, updated Horizons wouldn't be a top 5 attraction. There was nothing wrong with the underlying concept or execution of any of those rides.

Original Journey into Imagination would potentially still be top 5 even without any changes, although they could have updated effects and maybe overhauled a few scenes to modernize.

 

[erasure fan1]

I think it's relative to interests/tastes.

While Horizons would have needed updates, World of Motion as it originally existed would still be a top 10-15 attraction at WDW right now to me just like Spaceship Earth. I don't see any reason why a modern, updated Horizons wouldn't be a top 5 attraction. There was nothing wrong with the underlying concept or execution of any of those rides.

Original Journey into Imagination would potentially still be top 5 even without any changes, although they could have updated effects and maybe overhauled a few scenes to modernize.

That's the kicker. So many people say the epcot rides needed to go, they just weren't popular. Of course they weren't popular. That's what happens when you let an attraction sit with little to no updates. The great movie ride had the same issue. It was Disneys cheapness that was the problem, not the rides. Imagination was too expensive to run so they dumbed it down. Then let the others sit and become extremely out of date. All in the name of spending less money.

 

[FettFan]

My own opinion is that Disney has been trying too hard for thrill rides at the expense of family fun.

Ideally, for every 48” height requirement wide, you should have at least one general audience attraction that’s open to everyone. Case in point, WoL had Body Wars for older kids and adults, but offset that with plenty of offerings for the entire family, such as the Cranium Command show.

I think this failure is most evident in Mission Space. Fun though it may be for space and science enthusiasts, when each cabin includes airsickness bags, you kind of have a problem.

Should they *not* have built it?
No. They should have…but instead of focusing on four spaceflight gravitrons, two of which are in B mode to be less intense, they should have only built two and expanded the area to include a gentle dark ride, something that small children could ride safely without getting a case of Shaken Baby Syndrome.

 

[FettFan]

GMR was destroyed by licensing fees that Disney had to pay to other studios for the movies, as well as to the estates of deceased celebrities. Disney was cutting annuity checks to the estates of Humphrey Bogart, John Wayne, and Judy Garland to keep their animatronics on display.

This is why so many people were fearing the closure or reimagining of the Tower of Terror, as the Twilight Zone is owned by Viacom-CBS, and Disney has to pay them to maintain the theme park rights.
And we saw that happen in California where ToT was changed to Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy, with a constant rumor that the Paris version will close.

 

[bdearl41]

Going to WDW in the 90s as a kid was absolutely amazing. I wish my kids could experience that.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I agree. I don’t feel like traveling a long distance to experience a lot of tv/movie reruns. I’ve seen Frozen, Ratatouille, found Nemo, watched the Princess and the Frog.

I go to Disney to experience first-hand their creativity, their story-telling,their art. IP attractions are boring reruns.

As more IP is brought into the park, my interests have waned. Then when when management displays a lack of understanding with regards to my vacation style…

What am I to do?

This was the biggest mistake that Paramount made when they bought the Taft parks, IMHO. That and assuming that people had an enduring fondness and the same kind of emotional connection to movies like "Days of Thunder" and "Wayne's World" that Disney fans have to, let's say, Peter Pan, Dumbo and Snow White.

 

[Hitchens]

The following is something I posted in 2018.

Using a scale of 0 to 100, with 100 meaning "absolutely fabulous" and 0 meaning "it's a dump and should be closed", I graded Walt Disney World (WDW) for each year since its opening in 1971. Ultimately I decided to grade WDW against itself, using WDW's best years as the Gold Standard.

It's an arbitrary chart based on my opinion of WDW's quality and value over the decades. It's not based on real data. You might very well have a different opinion.

WDW was by no means perfect when it opened in 1971. The Magic Kingdom was a work in progress but still managed to blow the competition out of the water (only Disneyland was better) with an unflinching commitment to making its Guests happy.

Things only got better from there, with classic attractions such as Pirates of the Caribbean (POTC) and Space Mountain (SM) opening in the mid-1970s, River Country in 1976, followed by Big Thunder Mountain (BTM) in 1980.

WDW peaked with the opening of Epcot in 1982. Quality remained outstanding while total ticket price decreased. Previously, admission and attraction tickets were sold separately. Concerned about using that pricing scheme at Epcot, Disney leadership created a combined ticket, discontinuing attraction booklets. I recall many being upset about it but as someone who simply wanted to ride attractions all day long, the new tickets were perfect!

That perfection continued for a few years until Michael Eisner became CEO. One of his earliest actions was to increase ticket prices by double-digits. Those upset with the 1982 ticket change were furious with Eisner's massive increases, which continued from 1984 to 1988.

Attitudes greatly improved with the opening of Disney-MGM Studios and Typhoon Lagoon (TL) in 1989. Disney-MGM Studios got off to a rough start; there simply wasn't much to do. However, by the end of the year with the opening of the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular and Star Tours, Disney-MGM Studios finally felt like a theme park worthy of the Disney name. Typhoon Lagoon was amazing, unlike any other water park in the World. It made the quaint River Country seem amateurish. By 1990, the anger resulting from the price increases had been largely forgotten. With 3 theme parks, 2 water parks, a shopping district, and a nightclub district, WDW finally felt worthy of a week's vacation.

By the early 1990s, the wood was starting to rot beneath the glittering façade. Disney’s Strategic Planning unit began to micromanage theme park decisions. Gone was the uncompromising commitment to excellence, superseded by a cost-benefit-analysis of every aspect of the resort. Year-by-year, quality slipped, replaced by a "good enough" attitude. Many devoted frontline Cast Members remained but senior management was forced out, supplanted by those "sharp-pencil guys" Walt Disney had warned about decades before. Externally, all was well. Internally, Disney’s Old Guard was fading, never to return.

Still, the 1990s experienced many exciting additions. Splash Mountain (SM) opened in 1992. Arguably WDW's best attraction, Tower of Terror (TOT), opened in 1994, followed by Blizzard Beach (BB) in 1995. To the casual Guest, it was a glorious decade.

Perhaps WDW's last gasp of true greatness occurred with the opening of Disney's Animal Kingdom (DAK) in 1998. It should have been WDW's high-water mark. Instead, DAK opened with too few attractions and struggled with an image problem. (Remember the 2001 "Nahtazu" campaign?) Hardcore Disney fans were disappointed.

The slow decay continued as Eisner was under increasing pressure by Wall Street to improve margin, yet WDW still was an excellent resort, still the best in the World.

The vacation industry took a nosedive after those horrific events of September 11. WDW was not immune. Projects were cancelled, hotels were shuttered, Cast Members were laid off. Operating expenses were slashed and, for many, declining quality became visible for the first time.

After the initial shock, Disney took steps to correct its downturn in business, primarily through deep discounts such as the "Buy Four, Get Three Free" campaign. WDW's affordability improved even as the economy struggled.

WDW experienced another uptick with the introduction of the Magic Your Way (MYW) ticket in 2005 and the opening of Expedition Everest (EE) in 2006. Using an a la cart pricing scheme, the MYW ticket improved WDW's affordability for those seeking an entry-level theme park experience, while EE represented WDW's last great attraction until 2017.

The late 2000s arguably represent WDW's low point. Even though Strategic Planning had closed shop in 2005, budget cuts continued as corporate Disney increasingly nickel-and-dimed its Guests. Worse, for the first time in its history, capital expenditures were not keeping up with depreciation. The parks were aging yet Disney was deferring basic maintenance. It showed, with each year getting a bit worse than the year before.

Opened in 2012, the New Fantasyland (NFL) represented a change in direction, expanding WDW's most popular land in the World's most popular theme park. Yet ultimately it added only 2 attractions, replacing 2 that had closed. It was a small improvement but with much unrealized potential. NFL could have been so much more. NFL should have been more.

WDW held steady in the years following the opening of NFL. There were several modest improvements yet also more cost cutting and price increases, largely cancelling each other out. The net effect was a WDW no longer in decline, but not yet on the mend.

With the addition of Pandora, 2017 was a step upward. The entire land is well-themed and some consider Flight of Passage to be one of WDW's best attractions. Na'vi River Journey is immersive even if it lacks a certain je ne sais quoi. The Satu'li Canteen offers bold (for a theme park) food selections.

Sadly, Toy Story Land (TSL) was not enough to continue this upward trend in 2018.

2018 saw some of WDW's biggest price increases in years. Rack rate for a Standard room at All Star Sports was up 8.0%. The popular 4-day base ticket was up 8.5%. Annual Passholders got nailed with a 9% increase! Plus Disney started double-dipping by (for the first time) charging for hotel parking, something that previously was included in the room price for WDW's first 46 years!

One of my bellwethers is the water parks' Sand Pail. I was disappointed to report a large increase to $13.99 last year. This year, they avoided a price increase and, instead, dropped volume from 36 to 24 oz while still charging the same amount:

Added together, 2018 became a horrendous year for those shopping for a (relatively) inexpensive WDW vacation.

Meanwhile, theme park attendance continued to climb, meaning Guests were waiting in longer lines even as they paid more. TSL had to deliver a lot to justify these increases. Sadly, it missed the mark by a wide margin.

In some ways, TSL is exactly what WDW did not need: an overhyped, modestly themed land with 2 low-capacity kiddie attractions in a theme park where multiple high-capacity attractions were permanently closed.

Let's recall how we got here. The Great Movie Ride closed. The Backlot Tour closed. Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground closed. Perhaps worst of all, the crowd pleasing (and mega capacity) Osborne Festival of Dancing Lights is gone. (And, on a personal note, one of my favorites, Starring Rolls closed.) Combined, these nearly returned DHS to its dire state after its May 1989 opening. At that time, many WDW fans were furious with what they (justifiably) felt was a ripoff of a theme park ticket. DHS will improve once Star Wars Galaxy's Edge and Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway open but, for 2018, TSL may have made DHS even worse by attracting crowds that far exceed its two attractions' limited capacity.

Don't get me wrong; TSL is nice. Some dislike it but theming is consistent with the existing Toy Story Mania. Slinky Dog Dash (SDD) is a fun little coaster. Yet Alien Swirling Saucers and Woody's Lunch Box are disappointing. All three are vastly inferior to their counterparts at Pandora.

And throughout my visits this year, I saw sights like this far too often:

Higher than normal price increases. Increased crowds. Insufficient added capacity. A new land inferior to last year's Pandora. For these reasons and others, WDW took a step backwards in 2018.

Addendum:

I have not updated the above since 2018 but a lot (both good and bad) has happened since then.

Galaxy's Edge was a great step forward. The land is extensively themed while Rise of the Resistance is the best attraction ever! Having experienced the Star Wars phenomenon in 1977, Smuggler's Run is a dream come true for the teenager in me. (Yes, I know others don't like it as much as I do.) Mickey n Minnie's Runaway Railroad is a nice addition. It's debatable if it's better than the Great Movie Ride that it replaced, but it did help restore DHS.

Conversely, hotel price increases in 2019 and 2020 (pre pandemic) were among the highest in decades, which brings the grade down. In particular, Disney used the Skyliner as an excuse to increase the prices at Art of Animation, Pop Century, and Caribbean Beach Resort by a combined 24% in 2 years.

Also bringing the grade down are several recent money grabs: Disney's Magical Express (RIP), Extra Magic Hours (RIP), FastPass+ (RIP), Genie+, and others. And let's not forget flex ticket pricing. In 2021, a single day ticket during Christmas week will set you back $159 plus tax.

Disney genuinely deserves a pass for everything that happened in 2020. They did the best they could. Even though I was greatly disappointed at some of the announced attraction cuts, I understand the financial reasons.

The net effect is that the grade I gave WDW in 2018 is about the same grade it deserves today.

ParentsOf4, THANK YOU for taking the time to share such an excellent post!

I was at WDW every summer from 1972 through 1982 (I worked at Disneyland in the summer of '83) and it was so clean & mind blowing! It started when driving toward WDW & three highway lanes were for Walt Disney World and one lane to somewhere else. Then you turned on the WDW radio station till you arrived at a parking lot 7 miles away that Disneyland could've fit into. Then the monorail through the Contemporary, then the castle that was so much more impressive than my beloved Sleeping Beauty castle in Anaheim. When EPCOT opened it was amazing. I remember reading that in the 70s WDW had something like 50 applicants for everyone they hired -- so the cast members were really impressive, as they are today at Tokyo Disneyland & on Disney cruise ships.

 

[S.I.R. the Robot]

At one point, all three of the voice actors from the main trio of Hanna-Barbera classic Space Ghost could be heard in the parks. Disney did the wrong thing by removing all those VAs from the parks. At least we got Mentok the Mind-Taker to replace Space Ghost, but then they screwed up and removed him, too.