Walt and Epcot

Tom

Tom

Beta Return
JIMINYCR said:
Hey guys..... I gave you my plans ....
epcot_1.jpg


My visions, concepts of what needed to be done.....

430315_597795053566497_499526805_n.jpg


I left you with an idea....a dream .....

3.jpg


WHAT THE HECK DID YOU DOOOOOO.
Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty much. "I said one theme park....because the bank is making us....then A CITY."

George said:
My guess is that he would be thinking and saying one word - "Brains".
Click to expand...

Good point. He'd either be a zombie or 113 years old.

Zackattack1101 said:
Is there anything (positive)that Walt would say about Epcot?
Click to expand...

I think he would have plenty positive to say about the Magic Kingdom. But while I never knew him personally, I speculate that he would not be amused by the current Epcot theme park. There's nothing technically advanced or futuristic about Future World - in fact what's there is stale, which he wouldn't have approved of.

And as I and others have said, he wanted to build a model city. He wanted to take Urban Planning to the max. And while some will argue that the WDW property as a whole (i.e. RCID) is a city, and therefor fulfilled his dream, it's not at all what he was shooting for.

And to say what he wanted to do was impossible - that's false, because Walt Disney did not fail. He encountered road blocks (namely Roy and shortages of money), but he did not encounter brick walls.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Tom said:
And to say what he wanted to do was impossible - that's false, because Walt Disney did not fail. He encountered road blocks (namely Roy and shortages of money), but he did not encounter brick walls.
Click to expand...
Hate to break your bubble, but, Walt did many things that failed, some more then once. His idea was noble and huge. He would have made it work as long as he was alive, perhaps, but, the totalitarian state that he proposed has had almost no success in the U.S. He wanted a perfect community that would, unfortunately be occupied by people. That is where the plan would go wrong. They tried it, in a much smaller scale with Celebration and I don't think that lasted a decade, if it did it wasn't much over that.

People in this country tend to naturally rebel against to many constraints on their lives. What Walt proposed, although looking good on paper, would have a huge hurdle to overcome and a tireless effort to maintain to the degree of being leader in the new technology that changes daily to the tight wrist grip that would be required to be kept on those pesky people that lived and worked there.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
Hate to break your bubble, but, Walt did many things that failed, some more then once. His idea was noble and huge. He would have made it work as long as he was alive, perhaps, but, the totalitarian state that he proposed has had almost no success in the U.S. He wanted a perfect community that would, unfortunately be occupied by people. That is where the plan would go wrong. They tried it, in a much smaller scale with Celebration and I don't think that lasted a decade, if it did it wasn't much over that.

People in this country tend to naturally rebel against to many constraints on their lives. What Walt proposed, although looking good on paper, would have a huge hurdle to overcome and a tireless effort to maintain to the degree of being leader in the new technology that changes daily to the tight wrist grip that would be required to be kept on those pesky people that lived and worked there.
Click to expand...
How has Celebration failed?
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
How has Celebration failed?
Click to expand...
You don't see it as owned by Disney anymore do you? You don't see them having to follow the same rigid rules that were set by Disney do you? You don't see the original governing factor still in charge following the same rules and regulations do you? You don't see a separation between home and land ownership do you?

The place still exists and is probably thriving, but, it is no longer under the complete thumb of Disney. It is thriving like any upscale neighborhood in the State of Florida. It is not what was Eisner, weakly following in Walt's footsteps, imagined it would be. It had to be sold off to not pull the rest of the Disney Company down. Even as small scale as that project was compared to Walt's. Even though it didn't have to keep up with current technology as Walt wanted, it was unable to even continue on the original path. It failed as a Disney project and had to be sold off. They, like Walt would have finally figured out, that running a theme park and running a city are two completely different animals.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
You don't see it as owned by Disney anymore do you? You don't see them having to follow the same rigid rules that were set by Disney do you? You don't see the original governing factor still in charge following the same rules and regulations do you? You don't see a separation between home and land ownership do you?

The place still exists and is probably thriving, but, it is no longer under the complete thumb of Disney. It is thriving like any upscale neighborhood in the State of Florida. It is not what was Eisner, weakly following in Walt's footsteps, imagined it would be. It had to be sold off to not pull the rest of the Disney Company down. Even as small scale as that project was compared to Walt's. Even though it didn't have to keep up with current technology as Walt wanted, it was unable to even continue on the original path. It failed as a Disney project and had to be sold off. They, like Walt would have finally figured out, that running a theme park and running a city are two completely different animals.
Click to expand...
You need to do a lot more research. The plan from the beginning was for Disney to drop their control, it just happened earlier. Getting out had nothing to do with it "pulling Disney down."
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
You need to do a lot more research. The plan from the beginning was for Disney to drop their control, it just happened earlier. Getting out had nothing to do with it "pulling Disney down."
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but, there is a difference between being on the outskirts of the Disney Property and being right in the middle of it. They would have had to make it work otherwise they would have had to turn over the property right in the middle of the acreage of what is now WDW. That would have been a mess. Rights of way, etc. They couldn't even make the technology thing work in a small the small scale that EPCOT was in reality. It wouldn't have worked, and although I wish there had been a different way to stop it from happening, Walt's passing may have very well saved the company. Even he was capable of biting off more then he could chew.

This really isn't about Celebration anyway, it is about EPCOT (the city). In my opinion it just would not have worked.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
Perhaps, but, there is a difference between being on the outskirts of the Disney Property and being right in the middle of it. They would have had to make it work otherwise they would have had to turn over the property right in the middle of the acreage of what is now WDW. That would have been a mess. Rights of way, etc. They couldn't even make the technology thing work in a small the small scale that EPCOT was in reality. It wouldn't have worked, and although I wish there had been a different way to stop it from happening, Walt's passing may have very well saved the company. Even he was capable of biting off more then he could chew.

This really isn't about Celebration anyway, it is about EPCOT (the city). In my opinion it just would not have worked.
Click to expand...
What crazy technology was being employed that would have failed? Do new refrigerators not work? Does fiber optic communication infrastructure not work? Does mass transit not work when provided with sufficient density? The big hurdle was residents and their role, not the technology. But we already have a model for something very much like EPCOT that deals with that issue, private research universities and highly restrictive covenants.
 
Killnme

Killnme

Well-Known Member
Sadly, he would probably drop dead of a heart attack and they would have to cut his head off and freeze it, so one day he could be brought back to life.
 
ChrisFL

ChrisFL

Premium Member
Goofyernmost said:
Hate to break your bubble, but, Walt did many things that failed, some more then once. His idea was noble and huge. He would have made it work as long as he was alive, perhaps, but, the totalitarian state that he proposed has had almost no success in the U.S. He wanted a perfect community that would, unfortunately be occupied by people. That is where the plan would go wrong. They tried it, in a much smaller scale with Celebration and I don't think that lasted a decade, if it did it wasn't much over that.

People in this country tend to naturally rebel against to many constraints on their lives. What Walt proposed, although looking good on paper, would have a huge hurdle to overcome and a tireless effort to maintain to the degree of being leader in the new technology that changes daily to the tight wrist grip that would be required to be kept on those pesky people that lived and worked there.
Click to expand...

I don't see how it would be a "totalitarian state" any more than a large planned community with apartment style restrictions and homeowners associations (not saying they're GOOD, just saying we see the same kinds of restrictions today).

It would have been occupied by Disney cast members....much the same way that the CP and International Program CM's live on (or near) property right now anyway.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom