Volcano Bay

[lazyboy97o]

Saying it;'s being misunderstood seems a way of justifying a system which doesn't appear to do anything other than create longer waits? I've been at Typhoon Lagoon during full capacity and still had the ability to ride slides without 2 hour + waits. I'm guessing they'd be better scrapping Tapu, Tapu and trying it old school rather than being told 'You're not actually queuing" as though not riding anything for 2+ hours is a fantastic system?

Because the system doesn't create the longer waits, so yes, you do misunderstand the problem. You can't ride Miss Adventure Falls while waiting in line for Crush 'n' Gusher. A virtual queue is like "old school" because you can only stand in one line at a time.

 

[mergatroid]

Because the system doesn't create the longer waits, so yes, you do misunderstand the problem. You can't ride Miss Adventure Falls while waiting in line for Crush 'n' Gusher. A virtual queue is like "old school" because you can only stand in one line at a time.

Depends on how you look at it? If you have 4 hours in VB and want to ride the coaster which has a 3+ hour wait when you get there, if you use Tapu, Tapu that stops you riding anything else once you've swiped your band. Without Tapu, Tapu you could ride multiple slides with a shorter wait and then move on to the other one after and see if time permitted you. If they made only say 3 rides Tapu, Tapu and the rest not then that could possibly be fairer and more efficient?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Depends on how you look at it? If you have 4 hours in VB and want to ride the coaster which has a 3+ hour wait when you get there, if you use Tapu, Tapu that stops you riding anything else once you've swiped your band. Without Tapu, Tapu you could ride multiple slides with a shorter wait and then move on to the other one after and see if time permitted you. If they made only say 3 rides Tapu, Tapu and the rest not then that could possibly be fairer?

You're still not at all understanding the system. If there is a 3 hour stand-by line, that is all you are doing for those three hours.

 

[UCF]

With all due respect, that's more of poor planning on your part than a failure in the system on Disney's. Fastpass it. We've got all our Fastpasses booked for July, Space Mountain obviously being one of them. There's a way to properly use Fastpass+ where you can avoid the lines for the most popular attractions. And at least you have other options in the meantime. I've never waited more than 30 minutes for a ride at Disney. Before or after Fastpass+, and I hit everything I want to during the day. If I was told "Sorry, you can't ride Pirates of the Caribbean" for 4 hours until you ride Space Mountain, I'd be furious.

I'm sorry I didn't know I was going to Disney until the morning of the visit. Disney's system requires more planning and has its pros AND CONS. If you don't plan in advance and they're busy, you're stuck spending even more of your day in lines. Unable to do anything else while in lines.

I've also had the experience at Disney where the ride had delays while I was waiting on line, and I had to go to the bathroom, and I had the choice of leaving the line to go to the bathroom and losing my spot or suffering to hold it in. Tapu Tapu solves that problem. Also, Tapu Tapu DOES allow you to leave one line and enter another, just like Disney's standby lines do. You are not forced to stay in a line if you decide its too long after entering it.

Secondly, they may be loading as fast as ops can load them, but not as fast as they can be loaded. That's been very well documented. That however, is fixable.

That also has nothing at all to do with Tapu Tapu.

Having standby lines would divide however many people are in the park at one time up by 18 different attractions.

So are you saying the issue that there are too many people lounging on the chairs around the pools and in the pools and non-queued attractions? I haven't heard that complaint, but that would be the most valid one about Tapu Tapu.

Instead of waiting 4 hours before doing anything, you could hit 4 or 5 slides (at the minimum) in the interim.

Tapu Tapu does permit you to choose which ride you ride, and you can choose the smallest wait time ride each time.

This is a water park. It's not some new concept that has never been attempted before. There are thousands of water parks in the world, all which get crowded during the summer. Typhoon Lagoon is the most visited water park in the world, with fewer attractions than Volcano Bay, yet people (myself included) spend a day there and manage to do see everything. If Disney can operate a water park with more people and fewer attractions successfully, why can't Universal?

I'm curious if any opening day and opening weekend numbers were released? And how that compares to a peak Typhoon Lagoon day, with number of people and wait times?

From what I can tell, you don't have any complaints with Tapu Tapu, just how crowded the park is and perhaps the speed of the ride ops

 

[UCF]

it also stops you doing other things whilst waiting, meanwhile there's other systems that seem to already work better that are being ignored.

Tapu Tapu does not require you to wait by the tapping station while you are waiting. You are free to roam the park. You can utilize the wave pool, lounge in the chairs or cabanas, go to the lazy rivers, go to the kids play area, get something to eat, go to the bathroom, etc...

Interestingly, if you prefer the standby line system, you are free to stand by the entrance as if you were waiting in a standby line till Tapu Tapu tells you to go inside. Gives you the option of the standby line experience you desire!

 

[captainkidd]

So if Universal has long lines, it's a failure in the system, but if Disney has long lines, it's poor planning on the guest's part? I see....

You're putting words in my mouth. Disney's system CAN work because it allows you to have more than 1 Fastpass and also lets you ride other attractions in the interim. Universal and Islands works the same way. TapuTapu does not allow for this. I don't understand why this seems to be so difficult to grasp.

 

[JT3000]

You're putting words in my mouth. Disney's system CAN work because it allows you to have more than 1 Fastpass and also lets you ride other attractions in the interim. Universal and Islands works the same way. TapuTapu does not allow for this. I don't understand why this seems to be so difficult to grasp.

Why can't some of you grasp that Fastpass is NOT comparable to Tapu Tapu? The latter is a virtual queue, not a reservation for shorter lines. How many times will we need to repeat this for it to sink in? I just want to know for reference, because I already count several repetitions on the previous page alone.

If you want a comparable system that's better than Fastpass, the other two parks already have that. This one is trying to do something completely different.

 

[rushtest4echo]

I'm sure quite a bit in here is fairly accurate, but Universal deliberately picking low capacity versions of what ProSlide suggests seems like a stretch.

What stretch? I've already mentioned two that are flat out 1/3 or 1/2 the throughput of other similar slides at typical water parks. Others around the park have single raft load areas where many of those same models have two load areas for rafts which hugely helps with dispatch time consistency. There are plenty of parks with sets of dual, triple, or quadruple trap door/drop slides and Universal saw fit to offer something in the middle. Even Aquatica has dual see-through slides + triple trap door slides, or 5 total to Uni's 3.

If it's not deliberate, then it's an extremely foolish/amateur mistake coming from an industry leader- which makes me think those poor capacity decisions were indeed deliberate.

 

[mergatroid]

You're still not at all understanding the system. If there is a 3 hour stand-by line, that is all you are doing for those three hours.

I understand the sytem. Pointing out the system doesn't appear to be working yet isn't not understanding the system however much you keep blaming people not understanding it.

Do you think when Universal designed the system they designed it to.

1. Have 3 hour + waits on a number of slides?
2. Explain to people how Tapu, Tapu works as you keep saying the waits are down to people not understanding this great system?

All most of us are doing is trying to think why when this virtual queuing system doesn't seem to be working as well as it should (unless Universal wants long waits deliberately?) and trying to suggest better options. We have a system where if you pick a slide with a 3 hour virtual queue then you're restricted to what you can do. If you're in a normal queue for something else for 3 hours then of course you can't queue for anything else (and I beleive you know that I and others know this), that's not what I'm debating (and I think you know that). I'm asking if there's maybe a way of changing things so there's less waiting for rides like other water parks have and have had for many years?

Saying "No it's not changing as is the way it's meant to be" is very short sighted on what is just a debate on how to improve things. It's like you're taking the route of defending a system no matter what and refusing to even discuss ways of possibly improving it out of pricipal which is all I'm trying to do. I'll go as far as to say Tapu, Tapu could be the greatest sytem ever. Right now it isn't and I'm just thinking of ways to possibly improve it which would benefit everyone whilst you seem intent on refusing to even discuss the possibilty of doing so and saying it's great and people just don't understand it.

Now do you think there's no way of ever improving it and do you think everyone is delighted with it?

 

[Jon81uk]

But it also seems to prohibit you from riding anything else whilst you're waiting, that's a flaw isn't it?

It doesn't matter if the line is physical or virtual you can't ride something else while in line.
If I'm at Blizzard Beach and Summit Plummit has an hours wait, I have to stand in the queue and wait. I can't ride the mat slides and then go back and get on Summit Plummit with a 10 min wait.
Same at Volcano Bay, if a tube slide has a two hour wait I can't ride a mat slide and then come back.
Both Disney waterparks and Volcano Bay have the same wait type, it is all standby, its just volcano bay has virtual standby.

The issue is operations and not being able to dispatch quick enough due to not doing soft opens or AP previews to give the staff time to practice.

 

[Jon81uk]

Do you think when Universal designed the system they designed it to.

1. Have 3 hour + waits on a number of slides?

Tapu Tapu is not causing the 3 hour waits, poor capacity of slides and inexperienced team members are.

Tapu Tapu is indeed working as it should be, its just the slides are getting much longer waits and Universal should (as others have said) designed the slides with multiple loading areas or other methods of increasing capacity.

Biggest thing they could have done to improve waits is double loading (so the raft is at the front waiting for the green light to go as another raft is loading behind them).
Also doing soft openings and allowing the team to test and adjust better.

 

[captainkidd]

TapuTapu is not the 1st virtual line system at theme parks. Six Flags has been using it for years. Again, difference is, you're not restricted to just the 1 attraction.

The bottom line is some attractions are going to be more popular than others. Obviously. The flaw in TapuTapu is that there are 3 or 4 slides that will have ridiculous waits, while others may not. For those that don't, it's simply poor execution to not allow those to be used. I think we all understand how the system works. It's simply not working properly.

 

[Bartattack]

Has a similar system already been used in another waterpark? Because I think a waterpark might not have been the best choice for this kinda system. Especially with these load-times/capacity.

 

[mergatroid]

Tapu Tapu is not causing the 3 hour waits, poor capacity of slides and inexperienced team members are.

Tapu Tapu is indeed working as it should be, its just the slides are getting much longer waits and Universal should (as others have said) designed the slides with multiple loading areas or other methods of increasing capacity.

Biggest thing they could have done to improve waits is double loading (so the raft is at the front waiting for the green light to go as another raft is loading behind them).
Also doing soft openings and allowing the team to test and adjust better.

Probably not strictly true that. If people are taking virtual queue places then this affects the time. If they then cancel those 'reservations' to use a different slide that's affected the wait time. I know tapu, tapu times change during the wait if people cancel their existing reservations however when you initially book your slot you have no idea whether this time will vary. So a long time such as 3 hours may not actually be that long, however that 3 hour estimated wait may put people off getting in that virtual queue in the first instance. In a real queue people are less likely to leave after investing a long time standing in it.

I don't disagree with you that bad design and capacity is a huge factor in causing problems though, that's what I'm trying to discuss and see how to make it better rather than argue over technicalities.

 

[Jon81uk]

The bottom line is some attractions are going to be more popular than others. Obviously. The flaw in TapuTapu is that there are 3 or 4 slides that will have ridiculous waits, while others may not. For those that don't, it's simply poor execution to not allow those to be used. I think we all understand how the system works. It's simply not working properly.

Indeed, One solution could be to only put the more popular attractions on Tapu Tapu and have some of the slides that are higher capacity have a physical line only. So there is still only one type of line per slide (virtual or physical) but allow some slides to be ridden while reserving others. The issue of course could be that there is nothing with a high enough capacity for this to work.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

They also need to get the down times under control. The mat racers are one of the parks high capacity attractions and it has been going down a lot.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I understand the sytem. Pointing out the system doesn't appear to be working yet isn't not understanding the system however much you keep blaming people not understanding it.

Do you think when Universal designed the system they designed it to.

1. Have 3 hour + waits on a number of slides?
2. Explain to people how Tapu, Tapu works as you keep saying the waits are down to people not understanding this great system?

All most of us are doing is trying to think why when this virtual queuing system doesn't seem to be working as well as it should (unless Universal wants long waits deliberately?) and trying to suggest better options. We have a system where if you pick a slide with a 3 hour virtual queue then you're restricted to what you can do. If you're in a normal queue for something else for 3 hours then of course you can't queue for anything else (and I beleive you know that I and others know this), that's not what I'm debating (and I think you know that). I'm asking if there's maybe a way of changing things so there's less waiting for rides like other water parks have and have had for many years?

Saying "No it's not changing as is the way it's meant to be" is very short sighted on what is just a debate on how to improve things. It's like you're taking the route of defending a system no matter what and refusing to even discuss ways of possibly improving it out of pricipal which is all I'm trying to do. I'll go as far as to say Tapu, Tapu could be the greatest sytem ever. Right now it isn't and I'm just thinking of ways to possibly improve it which would benefit everyone whilst you seem intent on refusing to even discuss the possibilty of doing so and saying it's great and people just don't understand it.

Now do you think there's no way of ever improving it and do you think everyone is delighted with it?

The waits have to do with getting people through. That is an operational and even design issue. It is not a direct outcome of Tapu Tapu. Without Tapu Tapu, you still have ridiculously long waits and you still have people not doing other slides. That is why you clearly don't understand the issue, because you keep blaming the wrong thing.

Has a similar system already been used in another waterpark? Because I think a waterpark might not have been the best choice for this kinda system. Especially with these load-times/capacity.

Accesso's technology has been available at other water parks for years.

 

[seascape]

Vitual lines will always be longer than actual lines. There is no way around this because people like me would never wait in an hour long ride for a water slide, but I would wait much longer in a virtual line and enjoy the lazy river. BTW, I spend most of my time at a water park in the lazy river and wave pool.

Did anyone actually believe virtual lines could be shorter than actual lines? If any Universal executive believed that they should be fired. Only a fool would think that. Especially on this site where everyone has gone over the fact that fast pass plus actually increased the wait times at other rides. Why oh why was this not predicted before? Oh, it was by some if you go back and look. For people who love water parks and going on as many slides as possible, virtual lines will always give you less than if there were only regular lines. VB is aimed for people like me who hate standing in line, but enjoy going on a few things a day.

 

[UCF]

Indeed, One solution could be to only put the more popular attractions on Tapu Tapu and have some of the slides that are higher capacity have a physical line only. So there is still only one type of line per slide (virtual or physical) but allow some slides to be ridden while reserving others. The issue of course could be that there is nothing with a high enough capacity for this to work.

Yes, the problem is if you don't remove the ability for people to be in another line while doing the less popular slides, you are just adding even more people to the line for the more popular ones. Thats why people can't be in multiple lines... every additional line someone can be on, the longer each and every line is. If we took the idea of allowing people to wait in multiple lines, first time I got to a ride with a longer line, I'd walk around and tap every single ride in the whole park while I'm waiting.

The only benefit of getting rid of Tapu Tapu is people would spend more time not in lines, as they do want to experience the lazy rivers, wave pool, etc, and would willingly spend some time not in any line at all, resulting in some shorter lines. Interestingly, Tapu Tapu is more useful in a water park then theme park because lounging around the pool is part of the desired experience... I don't know what I'd do for hours on end while waiting for rides to become available.

 

[Jon81uk]

Thats why people can't be in multiple lines... every additional line someone can be on, the longer each and every line is. If we took the idea of allowing people to wait in multiple lines, first time I got to a ride with a longer line, I'd walk around and tap every single ride in the whole park while I'm waiting.

I agree with your post in general, the justification of why the virtual line is better for water park than theme park is perfect. But in regards to the quoted part, I didn't mean multiple lines, just one virtual and one physical, I agree in part that it still would be difficult to make it work, but you couldn't just tap on every attraction at once. Tap on one and then go and wait physically for something that doesn't offer a virtual wait (probably a body or mat slide).