Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?

[tirian]

The original pitch for FP+ had the option to show different levels of availability to different guests.

If paid FP comes, my guess is it’ll be available to everyone. I wouldn’t be surprised to see different packages or options.

Ah yes, back when the execs dreamed they could force guests to be hyper-scheduled to control op costs, yet sell the idea as all-inclusive “excursion” packages like a cruise.

Then they shifted the resort’s focus to an upper-class crowd who typically goes on vacation to escape their overly scheduled lives.

Who does Disney think their demographic actually is? Also, which wealthy guests want to escape their daily anxieties and pressures by going to a place which requires extensive planning and scheduling?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Ah yes, back when the execs dreamed they could force guests to be hyper-scheduled to control op costs, yet sell the idea as all-inclusive “excursion” packages like a cruise.

Then they shifted the resort’s focus to an upper-class crowd who typically goes on vacation to escape their overly scheduled lives.

Who does Disney think their demographic actually is? Also, which wealthy guests want to escape their daily anxieties and pressures by going to a place which requires extensive planning and scheduling?

Not only that, but the wealthy aren't likely to be repeat business (there are exceptions, but not one single person I know who has a lot of money makes Disney trips a priority in their lives - they're one and done when they have little kids).

 

[DisneyDave54321]

I don’t mean this in a crappy way, but I am both wealthy and enjoy the planning (probably because I am ). And we go every 2 years. I would definitely pay for this. Not sure what that makes me but I’m probably not alone.

 

[Disnutz311]

I don’t mean this in a crappy way, but I am both wealthy and enjoy the planning (probably because I am ****). And we go every 2 years. I would definitely pay for this. Not sure what that makes me but I’m probably not alone.

Same. I make decent middle class money and would pay for this at around $85 a day. Only if they have a daily cutoff. Big fan and go when I can. 22 times in 38 years. They need to make it like CLEAR was in the early days for travel. Not today where anyone can get it for free.

 

[lentesta]

Ah yes, back when the execs dreamed they could force guests to be hyper-scheduled to control op costs, yet sell the idea as all-inclusive “excursion” packages like a cruise.

Then they shifted the resort’s focus to an upper-class crowd who typically goes on vacation to escape their overly scheduled lives.

Who does Disney think their demographic actually is? Also, which wealthy guests want to escape their daily anxieties and pressures by going to a place which requires extensive planning and scheduling?

The original intent of FP+ - according to the presentation given to the board - was based on the finding that guests who used FP Classic were more satisfied than those who didn't.

Disney was willing to accept a small increase in overall standby wait times in order to capture that extra satisfaction.

I think they landed on 3 as the number of FastPass+ reservations by looking at each park's available ride capacity at something like the 80% attendance threshold.

 

[tirian]

The original intent of FP+ - according to the presentation given to the board - was based on the finding that guests who used FP Classic were more satisfied than those who didn't.

Disney was willing to accept a small increase in overall standby wait times in order to capture that extra satisfaction.

I think they landed on 3 as the number of FastPass+ reservations by looking at each park's available ride capacity at something like the 80% attendance threshold.

It was also intended to avoid future investments in park attractions, since “the more we build, the larger the crowds grow anyway.” That was part of the presentation when Disney trained CMs. Tbh, it’s true from a bottom-line business perspective; yet Disney parks used to consider more than that.

The team partly sold the board on FP+ by talking up guest satisfaction numbers, but it was also always a shell game to move crowds around and minimize expensive new rides and lands—all of which they ended up having to build anyway. Office-based CMs were welcome to sign up to little teams to help test and implement the system. It was bluntly, flatly described to us as a way to manage crowds and save on operating costs. The language was part of the official onboarding. It was in paperwork and a PPT deck. Nobody pretended it was about the guest experience other than a vague promise that one day in the future, guests could plan their entire dining and ride times “like a cruise ship.”

It seems — and this is conjecture — that the NextGen team sold the Disney board on an idealized, blue-sky, dreamy version of FP+, and were more blunt (honest?) when testing and training CMs on the system.

EDIT: These forums have thousands of posts about FP+, and regardless of whether people like it, love it, or hate it, everyone agrees (or admits) the overall resort experience has become hyper-scheduled and less relaxing as a result. Queue lengths at have been artificially inflated at crowd-crunching omnimovers and boat rides, quick-service restaurants often operate with purposefully limited windows and dining rooms, and the system was never duplicated at any other resort as intended. I guess the only question left to ask is whether Disney plans to fix the system at WDW.

 

[lentesta]

It was also intended to avoid future investments in park attractions, since “the more we build, the larger the crowds grow anyway.” That was part of the same presentation. Tbh, it’s true from a bottom-line business perspective; yet Disney parks used to consider more than that.

What page is that on? I have the presentation.

 

[tirian]

What page is that on? I have the presentation.

Please read what I said later in the post. I was typing quickly and edited that first paragraph after posting it. It was described that way in later presentations to lower-level CMs.

I have no idea what was in the executive board’s deck. I do know how it was described and presented to everyone else because I was in one of the teams.

Edit: To be even more specific, this was during a multi-year stint before 2010 — somewhat early in development and testing.

 

[lentesta]

Queue lengths at have been artificially inflated at crowd-crunching omnimovers and boat rides, quick-service restaurants often operate with purposefully limited windows and dining rooms, and the system was never duplicated at any other resort as intended.

Can you clarify what's artificial about the waits at these rides?

 

[flutas]

Can you clarify what's artificial about the waits at these rides?

Granted I am not him, so I don't know his thoughts / intentions on the message, and I also don't know the actual splits but...

I'm assuming he means that they have more FP allocations for omnimovers (say something like 80% FP, 20% standby) vs the non omnimovers would have something like a 50% / 50% split. Which would result in longer lines for omnimovers vs non and trying to "balance" the lines to be similar between them.

But again, I don't know any of the details and just speculating based on his posts.

 

[tirian]

Can you clarify what's artificial about the waits at these rides?

I’ve written about the queue lengths, usage, loading procedures, and FP+ allocations many times.

The waits are real. On moderately attended days, they don’t have to be. It’s an operating choice.

 

[tirian]

From my inexperienced perspective, it seems that Disney will make the lines as long as guests will tolerate, regardless of how many people are in the park. Sure, each attraction has a max capacity, but do they often run at max capacity? Disney has the ability to add more staff or less, adjust the number of vehicles or tracks used for some attractions, adjust park hours, etc. All of these things could affect line length as much as the number of guests, couldn't they?

Regardless of what FP/MaxPass/ExpressPass system they modify or introduce, ride capacity seems to be a problem. But capacity is not just a matter of needing more rides (although I do think that more rides would be great). It's also a problem in part because Disney can choose to operate at less than full ride capacity. I'm sure the bean counters have worked out capacity vs. operations cost vs. profit vs. guest satisfaction vs. a million other elements. I can only imagine which are weighted more heavily. Am I wrong in my assumptions?

You’re right. The waits at Space Mt., HM, and POTC are notorious for this. Once in a while you’ll get lucky and benefit from a CM who freely combines the loading docks to increase output, but most of the time, the CM lazily follows SOP and keeps the standby queue super-long while the FP+ queue is nearly empty.

And don’t even start me on how managers encourage the HM CMs to rush guests through the stretching rooms, only to back up in a remarkably crowded, unsafe loading queue. Unless the park was at capacity, this was rarely a problem before Disney burdened the HM ride system with FP+.

 

[nickys]

Granted I am not him, so I don't know his thoughts / intentions on the message, and I also don't know the actual splits but...

I'm assuming he means that they have more FP allocations for omnimovers (say something like 80% FP, 20% standby) vs the non omnimovers would have something like a 50% / 50% split. Which would result in longer lines for omnimovers vs non and trying to "balance" the lines to be similar between them.

But again, I don't know any of the details and just speculating based on his posts.

AAFAIK all rides with FPs have around an 80/20 split.

 

[DisneyDave54321]

The original pitch for FP+ had the option to show different levels of availability to different guests.

If paid FP comes, my guess is it’ll be available to everyone. I wouldn’t be surprised to see different packages or options.

Do you have any idea when it is expected to launch and and price points. We are planning a trip for Feb 2022.

 

[lentesta]

Do you have any idea when it is expected to launch and and price points. We are planning a trip for Feb 2022.

I don't. The last update I got was last fall, and I was told they'd stopped work on it. That was before the pandemic.

I could be wrong, of course.

 

[mdcpr]

Not only that, but the wealthy aren't likely to be repeat business (there are exceptions, but not one single person I know who has a lot of money makes Disney trips a priority in their lives - they're one and done when they have little kids).

Agree. The strategy is to make it a once in a lifetime experience, and never do it again. The world is too big and fascinating for WDW to be yearly trips for some.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Agree. The strategy is to make it a once in a lifetime experience, and never do it again. The world is too big and fascinating for WDW to be yearly trips for some.

I think it's a mistake.

 

[mdcpr]

I think it's a mistake.

Not a mistake, but a choice.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Not a mistake, but a choice.

Then I think it's a bad choice.

 

[mdcpr]

Then I think it's a bad choice.

Then I think it's a bad choice.

Ok...hmmm