ValidFill at Resorts

[Mickey is King]

Thanks! Mom was an accountant, Dad was and engineer ... detailed breakdowns is kind of in the blood. You should see me budget a vacation!

I have thought about park mugs. But beyond making the existing resort mugs refillable at the parks, either as an up charge or included, I really cannot see it happening.

(Here we go with the numbers again!)

The attendance rate at all 4 parks at WDW is nearly 48 million a year, most people do at least 2 parks so it's closer to 20 million unique guests. I'll go back to the average trip being 5 days long and the average guest using up 2 cups of soda a day. That's 200 million cups per year.

A cup of soda cost $2.50, minus 50 cents for taxes, syrup, soda water, the cup itself, the time involved to cast members, and other assorted costs. $2 of every soda is profit. It's really easy to see why percentage wise fountain soda is the money maker it is ... it's $400 MILLION that's almost a gimmie.

I think they'd end up having to change to much per cup to make it sound for them to do so.

I'd like them to do it and have be a combined resort/park mug. $15 for the mug and $5 to make it good at the park for the duration of your stay; $2 a day to reactivate it for the resort and $2 a day to reactivate it for the park.

I'd be on that so fast it would the Teacups look like a quiet ride!

yup, make them good at the parks as well...kind of similar to the way the water parks do it... but then I have to carry my mug around all day/night.......I still like the idea though

 

[Theosus]

So you mean I will need to buy a new mug each year and can no longer bring mine from previous years??? :lookaroun

Hey... someone was going to ask sooner or later!!

I bought mugs my first couple of years. Then for the next couple of years I just took my old mug back. When the star on my all-star mug was about washed off I came up with a new plan.
The mugs suck.
By the time you walk back from the food court, you've drunk all of it. If you take the stupid thing on the way to the park, then you have to carry it around.
I bring a few cases of drinks... And just put them in my room fridge. In the cheap resorts just bring a cooler, dump out the water each night and add fresh ice. I haven't bought a mug in years, but of course it won't work if you're flying. We drive 8 hours...and three cases of drinks is plenty for us.

 

[neoshinok]

Bumped to show just how slow progress is at every level at WDW. This was my first post back in 2011!

 

[Master Yoda]

Bumped to show just how slow progress is at every level at WDW. This was my first post back in 2011!

I agree! Testing is for suckers! Disney should have just grabbed the first thing they saw that looked like it might work and installed it property wide.

Then again, maybe the 2 year wait was a good thing. After all, the first test of ValidFill was a complete mess. The rules were to stringent, the machines broke and the system resulted in higher expenses.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Isn't this this the single greatest example of @WDW1974's favorite saying, "They're bending over to pick up pennies when dollar's are flying over their heads"?

 

[wm49rs]

Isn't this this the single greatest example of @WDW1974's favorite saying, "They're bending over to pick up pennies when dollar's are flying over their heads"?

Well, the "bending over" part at least....

 

[Master Yoda]

Isn't this this the single greatest example of @WDW1974's favorite saying, "They're bending over to pick up pennies when dollar's are flying over their heads"?

It is impossible to say without knowing how much Disney is loosing on soda theft. If they are loosing a million a year and this system costs less than that per year to run they will be in the black.

 

[Sassagoula-Rvr]

I'm having a hard time envisioning how this works will people still be able to fill regular cups they get at food court? if so what is preventing them from just filling their mug? Or will every cup have something that allows the machine to unlock the dispenser? How will it handle multiple cups being filled on the same dispenser at one time...I can see it would work, just would be great to see it in action.

Doesn't really bother me as I always get a mug anyways, and it looks like it may even be cheaper now...but just having a hard time figuring out the "how".

 

[GrumpyFan]

I'm having a hard time envisioning how this works will people still be able to fill regular cups they get at food court? if so what is preventing them from just filling their mug? Or will every cup have something that allows the machine to unlock the dispenser? How will it handle multiple cups being filled on the same dispenser at one time...I can see it would work, just would be great to see it in action.

Doesn't really bother me as I always get a mug anyways, and it looks like it may even be cheaper now...but just having a hard time figuring out the "how".

It's been mentioned a couple of times, but I'll comment again for those who missed it.

All cups, including regular paper cups will have an RFID tag on them.

Jeff Lange posted a blog and video about it when it was being tested.



The rollout of this will probably work very similar.

 

[Sassagoula-Rvr]

It's been mentioned a couple of times, but I'll comment again for those who missed it.

All cups, including regular paper cups will have an RFID tag on them.

Jeff Lange posted a blog and video about it when it was being tested.



The rollout of this will probably work very similar.

I figured it would have to work like that somehow, thanks for the video! I missed that! It boggles my mind that they lose that much money on the people cheating the system to be able to afford to put this system in place and still come out ahead.

 

[flynnibus]

I agree! Testing is for suckers! Disney should have just grabbed the first thing they saw that looked like it might work and installed it property wide.

Then again, maybe the 2 year wait was a good thing. After all, the first test of ValidFill was a complete mess. The rules were to stringent, the machines broke and the system resulted in higher expenses.

And we don't even know if they are using the same vendors

 

[lebeau]

It is impossible to say without knowing how much Disney is loosing on soda theft. If they are loosing a million a year and this system costs less than that per year to run they will be in the black.

It would depend on what you mean by "losing". Soda costs next to nothing. A lot of companies don't even pay for the syrup. So I doubt Disney is losing any money on "soda theft". They may be losing potential sales. That would be impossible to know, but I have a really hard time imagining that would amount to much. Would people who steal soda really buy that much extra soda under this system? If they did, wouldn't they likely cut back on spending elsewhere?

If Disney's still pursuing this, they must have a spreadsheet somewhere that shows them coming out in the black. But I have to think they are overlooking intangibles here. There has to be a better way to make a buck.

 

[GrumpyFan]

I figured it would have to work like that somehow, thanks for the video! I missed that! It boggles my mind that they lose that much money on the people cheating the system to be able to afford to put this system in place and still come out ahead.

As others have pointed out, it may not be that they're losing money from people cheating the system, but that they're not capitalizing on the revenue by driving more sales from it. Meaning, they might stand to make a lot more money by implementing this. Time will tell. I would love to see a cost and revenue breakdown on this and just what it does to sales after being implemented. For me, this just seems very expensive, and might cause me to reconsider whether I will buy it when I'm paying out of pocket.

 

[willtravel]

Isn't this this the single greatest example of @WDW1974's favorite saying, "They're bending over to pick up pennies when dollar's are flying over their heads"?

I actually picture this room where there are men and women sitting around an oval table, brainstorming how WDW can gouge the customer for more money. And if this implementation goes over well that person gets a good review, bonus, and keeps there job. But this is going on everywhere. Did you notice a lot of products at the grocery you buy are no longer 16oz,. but maybe 12oz? Or packaged cookies, the cookie size, are smaller than they use to be? Big business.... Love um or hate um.....

 

[Master Yoda]

It would depend on what you mean by "losing". Soda costs next to nothing. A lot of companies don't even pay for the syrup. So I doubt Disney is losing any money on "soda theft". They may be losing potential sales. That would be impossible to know, but I have a really hard time imagining that would amount to much. Would people who steal soda really buy that much extra soda under this system? If they did, wouldn't they likely cut back on spending elsewhere?

If Disney's still pursuing this, they must have a spreadsheet somewhere that shows them coming out in the black. But I have to think they are overlooking intangibles here. There has to be a better way to make a buck.

That is what I am thinking as well. At the end of the day Disney has the facts an figures and we have nothing more than guesses. I have no idea what Disney pays for syrup, the machines, maintenance, etc, but if it is a non-zero number the potential off loss exists. Stores pay to have security guards because the salary is more than offset by the amount of shrinkage they reduce. Considering how badly the test at the All Stars supposedly went, I have to think that Disney must have seen some pretty glaring numbers in the favor or the RFID system for them to be going ahead with it property wide.

In the end, the only people that are really going to be affected by this are those that are filling up milk jugs and their 3 year old mugs. For the rest of us it will be business as usual.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Considering how badly the test at the All Stars supposedly went, I have to think that Disney must have seen some pretty glaring numbers in the favor or the RFID system for them to be going ahead with it property wide.

Can you elaborate on the testing and how it went. I had heard of a few problems with the machines, but not much detail.

 

[lebeau]

That is what I am thinking as well. At the end of the day Disney has the facts an figures and we have nothing more than guesses. I have no idea what Disney pays for syrup, the machines, maintenance, etc, but if it is a non-zero number the potential off loss exists. Stores pay to have security guards because the salary is more than offset by the amount of shrinkage they reduce. Considering how badly the test at the All Stars supposedly went, I have to think that Disney must have seen some pretty glaring numbers in the favor or the RFID system for them to be going ahead with it property wide.

In the end, the only people that are really going to be affected by this are those that are filling up milk jugs and their 3 year old mugs. For the rest of us it will be business as usual.

Yeah, it has no impact on me whatsoever. Since they switched to the non-resort specific mugs (or "generic mugs") we have only gotten them if they were included in the Dining Plan (and we only get the DP if it's free). Even then, we barely use them. Last time, I didn't pick up the mugs till half way through our stay.

But still, I find the decision mind-boggling. I have no idea what Disney's numbers look like, but I have seen the numbers on soft drink supplies. A long time ago in a town not so far, far away, I used to deal with ordering CO2, syrup, etc. The company I worked for was smaller and less powerful than Disney, and Coke provided the syrup for free. CO2 was expensive when you had to order it, but it lasted forever. By far, the $.05 cup was the most expensive element of a drink order (well, not counting labor and other kinds of overhead).

 

[flynnibus]

That would be impossible to know, but I have a really hard time imagining that would amount to much. Would people who steal soda really buy that much extra soda under this system? If they did, wouldn't they likely cut back on spending elsewhere?

If you have a soda in your hand... do you buy a drink when you order lunch? Maybe not.
If you have no drinks around... do you buy a drink when you order lunch? More than likley, yes.

It's not just about 'free vs paid' - these are people trying to eat meals. People overwhelmingly choose to have a drink with their meals. That principle doesn't depend on the drink being free - when posed with no drink, people tend to buy one.

 

[Master Yoda]

Can you elaborate on the testing and how it went. I had heard of a few problems with the machines, but not much detail.

From what I saw, the problem stemmed from the refill policy. When it came to regular cups you had to wait a certain amount of time between fill ups. I also think it would shut your turn down if you stopped the flow before your cup was full. This resulted in people pushing on the levers until the broke. It seems as though they have corrected that issue in hopes that the machines will take a bit less abuse.

 

[lebeau]

If you have a soda in your hand... do you buy a drink when you order lunch? Maybe not.
If you have no drinks around... do you buy a drink when you order lunch? More than likley, yes.

It's not just about 'free vs paid' - these are people trying to eat meals. People overwhelmingly choose to have a drink with their meals. That principle doesn't depend on the drink being free - when posed with no drink, people tend to buy one.

I am making assumptions, but I have to think most people who would "steal soda" would fit into the category of people who simply wouldn't pay for one if push came to shove.