Universal UK?

[Robbiem]

This is amazing news.

There's been alot of nonsensical town about planning hold ups in the UK. This is utter nonsense.

The London resort issue wasn't planning, but financial backing.

The Sphere ball may well be okay in Las Vegas, but in the middle of a residential area of course you are going to encounter issues.

Universal would be welcomed with open arms.

Planning hold ups are real here in the UK - one of the reasons the London resort has had so many issues is the way environmental campaigners use issues to stop things - they would rather the site be left as an abandoned quarry because it has a spider living there than see anything built

ITV and BBC pull funding for 'Kent Disneyland' over tiny endangered spider

ITV and the BBC have pulled out of the £3.5 billion park planned on the Swanscombe Peninsula

www.kentlive.news

Universal had similar issues 30 years ago when they were going to build a resort in Rainham Essex (10:20 and 5:15)




Competing interests also play a part - the London sphere was refused permission on the basis of its carbon impact with one of the big objectors being the owner of the 02 dome which would have been a key looser from the project

Populous’s Sphere refused planning by London Mayor

Sadiq Khan has directed refusal for the controversial Populous-designed Madison Square Garden (MSG) Sphere

www.architectsjournal.co.uk

It took about 40 years and numerous plans for anything to happen at Battersea power station (I remember when it was going to be the UK’s answer to Euro Disney)

It isn’t just entertainment its any infrastructure- there have been so many objections to building the new HS2 rail line that it was mainly put in tunnels which then made it too expensive and half of it was cut. The last time the UK built a full size runway was about 70 years ago, there have been so many proposals all shot down

You can see the start of it from the local politicians quotes who are luke warm about it

Bedford mayor Tom Wootton: The suggestion of a major business investment is of course positive, nevertheless these are early days and much detailed work is required before any decisions are made….We’re committed to ensure that any plans align with the best interests of our residents.”
Mohammad Yasin MP ”Obviously, I would be working to ensure local residents are given a voice as plans develop and that the plans take account of existing development in our region”

I agree that while most people would welcome the plans but there are a powerful minority who will oppose it on principle and these people can drag things out for long periods of time making it harder and more difficult until the developers walk away. I suspect it could well be another Disney’s America but I hope I’m wrong

 

[maxairmike]

Yep, all of that is very correct. I was more thinking about the issues Alton Towers has had with people that moved in after the park was already well established. Looking at the area, there are several homes on the little road that splits the land they bought that I have every expectation they’ll try and hold up and restrict development with tons of noise and visual concerns. Nighttime shows probably have 0 chance of happening here if a park manages to get built.

 

[sonoma15]

Planning hold ups are real here in the UK - one of the reasons the London resort has had so many issues is the way environmental campaigners use issues to stop things - they would rather the site be left as an abandoned quarry because it has a spider living there than see anything built

ITV and BBC pull funding for 'Kent Disneyland' over tiny endangered spider

ITV and the BBC have pulled out of the £3.5 billion park planned on the Swanscombe Peninsula

www.kentlive.news

Universal had similar issues 30 years ago when they were going to build a resort in Rainham Essex (10:20 and 5:15)




Competing interests also play a part - the London sphere was refused permission on the basis of its carbon impact with one of the big objectors being the owner of the 02 dome which would have been a key looser from the project

Populous’s Sphere refused planning by London Mayor

Sadiq Khan has directed refusal for the controversial Populous-designed Madison Square Garden (MSG) Sphere

www.architectsjournal.co.uk

It took about 40 years and numerous plans for anything to happen at Battersea power station (I remember when it was going to be the UK’s answer to Euro Disney)

It isn’t just entertainment its any infrastructure- there have been so many objections to building the new HS2 rail line that it was mainly put in tunnels which then made it too expensive and half of it was cut. The last time the UK built a full size runway was about 70 years ago, there have been so many proposals all shot down

You can see the start of it from the local politicians quotes who are luke warm about it

Bedford mayor Tom Wootton: The suggestion of a major business investment is of course positive, nevertheless these are early days and much detailed work is required before any decisions are made….We’re committed to ensure that any plans align with the best interests of our residents.”
Mohammad Yasin MP ”Obviously, I would be working to ensure local residents are given a voice as plans develop and that the plans take account of existing development in our region”

I agree that while most people would welcome the plans but there are a powerful minority who will oppose it on principle and these people can drag things out for long periods of time making it harder and more difficult until the developers walk away. I suspect it could well be another Disney’s America but I hope I’m wrong

The problem with London Resort wasn't actually spiders, it's that they actually had no money and were looking for investors. They also didn't actually own the land (which Universal does). Also, you cut off about half the quote of what Mohammad Yasin said, the full quote is:
"without doubt a very interesting proposition for our region. To have such a huge global brand like Universal Studios invest in Britain would be fantastic, It would be hugely exciting if Bedford were to be home to a new theme park. It would bring significant investment and growth into the area, bringing jobs and tourism with it. Obviously, I would be working to ensure local residents are given a voice as plans develop and that the plans take account of existing development in our region so that all residents can benefit."

That doesn't really sound like someone who is lukewarm about it. It sounds like someone who is very excited for what Universal has to bring to Bedford.

 

[Robbiem]

That doesn't really sound like someone who is lukewarm about it. It sounds like someone who is very excited for what Universal has to bring to Bedford.

believe me it is lukewarm - I worked in Whitehall and saw firsthand how ‘spin’ works.

It is what he doesn’t say and the wording that is important. There is no mention of working with universal to help support them through the planning process for example. He say ‘would be’ not ‘ It is exciting’

My breakdown of his statement with my old ‘civil service’ hat on:

"without doubt a very interesting proposition for our region.

AKA I have to say something neutral as I don’t know if this will go through or not and I need to cover my back by saying its an ‘interesting proposition’ not ‘I welcome’ or ‘I support’ in case I say something my opponents can use against me in the next election

To have such a huge global brand like Universal Studios invest in Britain would be fantastic, It would be hugely exciting if Bedford were to be home to a new theme park. It would bring significant investment and growth into the area, bringing jobs and tourism with it.

‘Would’ not ‘will’. This is framing as a hypothetical argument without support. In Whitehall ‘would‘ or ‘could’ signalled neutrality. He is saying it could be a good thing, not that it is in his opinion or that he supports. Read the above again but replace ‘this would‘ with ‘this will‘ to see how much more positive it is

Obviously, I would be working to ensure local residents are given a voice as plans develop and that the plans take account of existing development in our region so that all residents can benefit

The kicker statement - giving an ‘out’ if the public object or it becomes unpopular - if local people, for example, say they want more housing on the site he can easily say he always supported the local population and object that the plans do not align with ‘existing development’ because it would impact a rare spider etc (note he didn’t name any developments and if they are currently compatible). without loosing any face

After the millennium dome no UK politicians are going to enthuse about a theme park.

London resort may have had money troubles but as the Wikipedia entry details it was the weight of objections that killed the project, especially environmental ones (the same as Universal had in the 90s).

London Resort - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I really would love to see this built and do personally support the plans but I still suspect someone will find an endangered species of something on site or the plans will be challenged for carbon footprint etc until Uni packs up and goes back to Spain.

 

[LondonTom]

Anyone who believes there won't be serious opposition in the UK that Universal has to overcome hasn't looked at any major building project in the UK in the last 50 years . (Docklands/Olympics which were effectively taken out of local councils' hands with development corporations but that requires a lot of serious political backing and even then you will have the nimbys/media fighting everything)

In its favour, Universal/NBC likely have deep enough pockets/resources to put up a decent fight against those nimby objectors and don't necessarily need to start turning that investment money into returns as fast. If they can get key politicians on board (and both parties could do with a big win on jobs) they might just be able to push it through.

I do hope they manage it though, it will be great to have an actual theme park in the UK!

 

[DonniePeverley]

Coming up a year soon enough when this was first announced.

And as we originally all thought ... this is going to get bogged down in the slow process many European countries have with planning applications - the UK being one of the worst.

I recall an incident where a major electronics factory had to wait 6 months for planning clearance, as they found ONE BIRDS NEST in a building that was to be demolished. Utter lunacy of the highest level we have here. In China, Asia this would have already been given the green light and we would have had spades in the ground.

Such a shame.

See you all in the year 2045 when this may get planning approval.

 

[Andrew25]

Coming up a year soon enough when this was first announced.

And as we originally all thought ... this is going to get bogged down in the slow process many European countries have with planning applications - the UK being one of the worst.

I recall an incident where a major electronics factory had to wait 6 months for planning clearance, as they found ONE BIRDS NEST in a building that was to be demolished. Utter lunacy of the highest level we have here. In China, Asia this would have already been given the green light and we would have had spades in the ground.

Such a shame.

See you all in the year 2045 when this may get planning approval.

To be fair, Universal was forced to acknowledge a UK park earlier than anticipated. There has been progress made, nobody should (or was) expecting construction to begin within a year or two. I'd be more worried if shovels don't hit the ground in 2026.

 

[Loose Pebble]

Also there was a major change in the government with new leadership, which was going to require review and additional negotiations.

 

[DonniePeverley]

Also there was a major change in the government with new leadership, which was going to require review and additional negotiations.

Planning applications should have nothing to do with national governments. It's not like China's situation with Disney, where there was a state involved in the investment of the park i believe, and hold a majority stake in the parks. The planning should be strictly at a local level, unless the government decides to get involved and over rules them.

The planning application for a Universal theme park on the surface seems straight forward enough. Why would a country not want this sort of invesment? But welcome to the UK.

Universal were warned about entering into the UK markets as they would be mired in endless planning applications for years and year. The new government has promised to review planning applications, but no doubt the review will take years. It's how ancient the planning system is here, even though some 92% of the country has nothing built on it.

Whilst it will most likely get the green light, i can see it being years away from approval.

If i was Universal i would walk away, and concentrate on the more thriving Asian markets.

 

[Loose Pebble]

Planning applications should have nothing to do with national governments. It's not like China's situation with Disney, where there was a state involved in the investment of the park i believe, and hold a majority stake in the parks. The planning should be strictly at a local level, unless the government decides to get involved and over rules them.

The planning application for a Universal theme park on the surface seems straight forward enough. Why would a country not want this sort of invesment? But welcome to the UK.

Universal were warned about entering into the UK markets as they would be mired in endless planning applications for years and year. The new government has promised to review planning applications, but no doubt the review will take years. It's how ancient the planning system is here, even though some 92% of the country has nothing built on it.

Whilst it will most likely get the green light, i can see it being years away from approval.

If i was Universal i would walk away, and concentrate on the more thriving Asian markets.

There are a few things that Universal needs to work with the government on. One is upgrading public transit in the area (larger train stations, better service from London, etc.). Another is negotiating tax breaks, which of course Universal will want. There are probably others as well that I can’t think of.

Also given that Universal has no presence in Europe and the Disney there is underinvested in and there aren’t any other international draws, I think it makes a ton of sense for Universal to build in the UK.

 

[Jon81uk]

To be fair, Universal was forced to acknowledge a UK park earlier than anticipated. There has been progress made, nobody should (or was) expecting construction to begin within a year or two. I'd be more worried if shovels don't hit the ground in 2026.

Yep this. They acknowledged it way earlier than they wanted to due to people on forums finding out the details. It’s not significantly started the planning process yet, it’s more about negotiating tax breaks and similar too. They also want the council and government onside so they can submit planning documents without too much detail being revealed to the public.

 

[Andrew25]

There are a few things that Universal needs to work with the government on. One is upgrading public transit in the area (larger train stations, better service from London, etc.). Another is negotiating tax breaks, which of course Universal will want. There are probably others as well that I can’t think of.

Also given that Universal has no presence in Europe and the Disney there is underinvested in and there aren’t any other international draws, I think it makes a ton of sense for Universal to build in the UK.

Universal has already been actively promoting these plans (like 2 new train stations) and improved transport in the area.

 

[JoeCamel]

Planning applications should have nothing to do with national governments. It's not like China's situation with Disney, where there was a state involved in the investment of the park i believe, and hold a majority stake in the parks. The planning should be strictly at a local level, unless the government decides to get involved and over rules them.

The planning application for a Universal theme park on the surface seems straight forward enough. Why would a country not want this sort of invesment? But welcome to the UK.

Universal were warned about entering into the UK markets as they would be mired in endless planning applications for years and year. The new government has promised to review planning applications, but no doubt the review will take years. It's how ancient the planning system is here, even though some 92% of the country has nothing built on it.

Whilst it will most likely get the green light, i can see it being years away from approval.

If i was Universal i would walk away, and concentrate on the more thriving Asian markets.

Universal has been moving dirt on the site as of months ago. Not building but doing due diligence. Good chance you are wrong

 

[jannerUK]

I am just so used to the 'poor quality' of UK Theme Parks that I would find it would grate more with me if it exist and it was so pale and poor in comparison to the Orlando/Hollywood ones than it would if it stalled and didnt happen!

 

[Jrb1979]

I am just so used to the 'poor quality' of UK Theme Parks that I would find it would grate more with me if it exist and it was so pale and poor in comparison to the Orlando/Hollywood ones than it would if it stalled and didnt happen!

Poor quality? Thorpe park and Alton Towers are two of the best European parks out there.

 

[DonniePeverley]

Poor quality? Thorpe park and Alton Towers are two of the best European parks out there.

They're nothing but Six Flag type parks.

 

[Jrb1979]

They're nothing but Six Flag type parks.

I know they aren't heavily themed but they still have great rides. It's funny how parks are viewed by different communities. Watching different vloggers that visit these parks and they show them in a different light. Watching those videos shows families having fun times and loving the parks.

You come here and many view those parks as nothing but junk, full of riff Raff with coasters everywhere.

 

[jannerUK]

That is my issue. UK Theme Parks are not themed. I adore what Disney and Universal do. Although Universal is in no league with Disney they still try to foster a sense of realism and theming. Thorpe Park & Alton Towers just feels like a "mass of rides" for me. I know USF has lost a bit of its sparkle and does look like boxes of rides but the new Epic Universe seems to be in opposite direction.

I just worry with Universal UK that it will lack all of this. Feel like an upmarket Thorpe Park.

 

[Jrb1979]

That is my issue. UK Theme Parks are not themed. I adore what Disney and Universal do. Although Universal is in no league with Disney they still try to foster a sense of realism and theming. Thorpe Park & Alton Towers just feels like a "mass of rides" for me. I know USF has lost a bit of its sparkle and does look like boxes of rides but the new Epic Universe seems to be in opposite direction.

I just worry with Universal UK that it will lack all of this. Feel like an upmarket Thorpe Park.

I know theming wise those parks are not even close to the same level. I don't expect that from those parks. What they offer is a decent alternative. It has always bugged me how many dismiss those parks and act like nobody visits them.

 

[DonniePeverley]

UK theme parks are a disgrace.

Parks are more than just attractions. The whole theming of a park is very important, immersions, experiences, etc

Plonking a roller coaster down in the middle of a random area without any themeing, and calling it 'space man' etc is pointless.