Universal Orlando Getting Bigger, Better, Wetter, Wilder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I thought the year that was being thrown around was 2019?

That's a negative Ghostrider. Iger wants to include IP from the 3 new SW movies in the SW land, The H--- of it is WDI had a SW land all ready to go based on the existing SW canon. Iger of course nixed it so we are back to the drawing board until all the movies hit.
 

erwinalber4

Well-Known Member
The problem with Star Wars is it's not even slated to open before 2022 - Thats 7 YEARS from now and 5 years after the first movie hits the screen.
I agree that I'd love it sooner. I think most people would too. I'm just saying that Star Wars is an IP that has a huge draw and will deliver when it does arrive. WDW doesn't need it now but it'll be ready just in time for when they do need it. To be fair Diagon Alley opened 3 years after Potter's last film (2011) and SW has at least 2 more films after this next one. And I'm only saying this because I've always wanted to "If you only knew the power of the darkside" (in my best Vader voice). I'm in no way discrediting UNI's excellent work lately but WDW will respond when they need to. Until then, whether we like it or not it's focus is on infastructure upgrades and getting DAK to be a full day park. Both Resorts are simply doing their own thing right now and direct head to head competition will come when the time is right and WDW needs to. Like I said I wish Disney was in a growth spurt too but they aren't right now. Knowing that it's coming makes a me feel better. Begining 2017 when Avatar hits is when I'm guessing it'll start.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
That's a negative Ghostrider. Iger wants to include IP from the 3 new SW movies in the SW land, The H--- of it is WDI had a SW land all ready to go based on the existing SW canon. Iger of course nixed it so we are back to the drawing board until all the movies hit.
Spirit said the plans for Star Wars Land could be final by May with the announcement at D23. That doesn't sound like something not opening till 2022.
 

Donald Razorduck

Well-Known Member
I wonder how the numbers of the two parks compare when only looking at domestic (US folk only) visitors. After having been recently, this seems like where Disney separates itself from UNI. It gives them fuller parks on weekdays during the slow times that US that are heavily dependent on domestic visitors. I saw that effect on a Thursday the second week of Feb at AK. You take out most of the foreigners and that park is as dead as dead gets and nothing there on that day was much more than a 20 minute wait most of the day.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Sorry, but this is exactly what the WDW I fell in love with in the 1970s and 80s was NOT. That WDW was a place filled with one-of-a-kind experiences that had all-ages and unisex appeal. As a ten-year-old boy, I would have fled from "pixie dust and princesses" as from the plague, but I spent hours and hours poring over the guidemap from the last WDW visit while unable to sleep from the excitement of the upcoming visit. And my parents, older cousins, and grandparents loved it as well.

If Universal appeals more to boys, teens, and adults, that says more about the failures of present-day WDW than it says about Universal.

Exactly THAT's the WDW that I remember and fell in love with and still love even though the magic is draining away. In a way it reminds me of Larry Niven's 'The Magic Goes Away' not about WDW more old school sword and sorcery.
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
Epcot has princess M&G's all around WS and will soon have a ride about princesses in Norway. DHS has three princess themed shows. Only Animal Kingdom and the two water parks don't have a big princess presence.

Still less than Magic Kingdom and I don't think anyhere near enough to back up the original statement that they are "all Disney is about". I've got my own fair share of gripes with WDW these days that I seem to share with many others on this forum but in spite of that I wouldn't diminish what Disney still offers which, in my view, is a lot more than pixie dust and princesses.
 

erwinalber4

Well-Known Member
Well Avatar is now opening in 2018 - AFTER the FIRST movie hits the screens supposedly this is due to construction delays... So four years after Avatar sounds about right for WDW
I must have missed the 2018 push. That sucks. I've already been debating on UNI passes when my WDW one expires for a year and I'm really getting closer to deciding UNI for sure since I haven't been since before Potter1 opened.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Still less than Magic Kingdom and I don't think anyhere near enough to back up the original statement that they are "all Disney is about". I've got my own fair share of gripes with WDW these days that I seem to share with many others on this forum but in spite of that I wouldn't diminish what Disney still offers which, in my view, is a lot more than pixie dust and princesses.
I agree it's not all Disney is about but your post said there wasn't much of a presence, which there is.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
I wonder how the numbers of the two parks compare when only looking at domestic (US folk only) visitors. After having been recently, this seems like where Disney separates itself from UNI. It gives them fuller parks on weekdays during the slow times that US that are heavily dependent on domestic visitors. I saw that effect on a Thursday the second week of Feb at AK. You take out most of the foreigners and that park is as dead as dead gets and nothing there on that day was much more than a 20 minute wait most of the day.
Almost every Brazilian tour group that comes to Orlando hits all the parks. They usually stay at the Disney "values". Or off property.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
Disney has four parks and two water parks to show they can 'deliver the goods'. Disney is not building at the same pace as Uni right now because they simply don't have to.

And while the powers that be on here may not like the new fantasy land, the masses seem to be very happy with it. I don't remember being able to walk on to the 'underwhelming' SDMT, an I'm pretty sure there are lengthy waits for the princesses. I won't even get into BOG, another underwhelming failure in sure.
Well, considering how low capacity all of the NFL sans Mermaid are, I'm not at all surprised by the 2-4 hr waits :D
WDW visitors are also desperate for anything remotely new at this point.

It's not wrong though, Disney is not struggling.

It's funny because my wife gets it right off the bat. It's not a competition between Dis and Uni. They're two totally different markets.

Uni is all about thrills and macho and testosterone.

Disney is all about Pixie dust and princesses and larger than life kiddie rides and characters.
Despicable Me (you don't know how many teen girls adore the Minions...)
Shrek (very four-quadrant)
Barney (the exact opposite of macho :rolleyes:)
Fievel (see Curious George)
Curious George (preschool friendly... not macho in the slighest)
Woody Woodpecker (just a classic toon)
Animal Actors (just animals playing games... nothing macho lol)
DR. SEUSS (on par with the Disney classics for timelessness)
Beetlejuice (very flamboyant... not really macho lol)
Harry Potter (a lot of women love this franchise)
Dudley Do-Right (way too goofy to be macho IMO)
The Simpsons (pretty unisex... something for everyone)
E.T. (one of the most four-quadrant films of all time)

Universal has options to increase female/kid appeal too:
  1. SpongeBob
  2. My Little Pony
  3. Dora
  4. Nintendo
  5. Scooby-Doo
  6. Hello Kitty
  7. Sesame Street (buy out SeaWorld/Busch and get the rights already!)
  8. DreamWorks
  9. Wicked/Oz
  10. Sherlock/Doctor Who (both have surprising amounts of female appeal)
I'm sure I'm missing some others, but Universal is not pure testoterone... Disney also isn't pure girly-girl (most of Epcot, most of DHS, all of AK, 30% of MK)



Says who?

My wife is impressed, my kids are impressed, Disney wallets are impressed. You're not happy with what they're doing, I think they could do so much more than they do.

Guess what? We might just be wrong here.

Sounds like a positive to me. Disney spent tons of money building the massive advantage they currently have. How did Universal allow themselves to fall so far behind? Why weren't they building long before now?
9/11 and the recession happened... after their Potter gamble, they decided to use the profits to rebuild the parks... obviously, that's working as of 2015!

Disney has only truly added 5 attractions across the entire resort from 2005 to present day. In terms of actually expanding the attraction count of the resort, they've only TRULY added 1 attraction: Everest. Soarin' replaced Kitchen Kabaret. SDMT replaced Scary Adventures. Mermaid replaced 20K. TSMM replaced Millionaire.

No they don't, but until recently, Uni had nothing like Potter either. As for Spider-Man, yeah it's cool but it doesn't overwhelm me. Uni seems very much aimed at one demographic. Im just saying it's the wrong one.
All I'm saying is personally I mor my family would plan a Florida trip solely around Uni. Not many people I know would. While the boys like Uni, they're just as happy (almost as happy, being honest) going to Canada's Wonderland and riding the Guardian or playing at Planet Snoopy.

Again, there is NOTHING like Disney. It's my opinion, take it for what it's worth. I would venture that it's one shared by many of the unwashed from outside the boards too.
Spider-Man is leaps and bounds ahead of anything Disney's done since ToT/Indy stateside. JttCotE and Mystic Manor equal Spidey as far as overseas.

Marvel has significant female appeal. You wouldn't believe how many women love the MCU. To be honest, I'm glad Universal doesn't focus primarily on little kids. They've found their bread and butter: families with kids 8 and up, adults not blinded by Pixie Dust, teenagers, college kids.

I agree IOA and USF each need 2-3 all-ages dark rides added to them. Some smaller kid-friendly additions throughout would help as well. But Universal isn't Disney and it never will be. They cater best to people who actually want to be excited while on a ride as opposed to just watching their kids be excited while they're bored to tears. Jim Gaffigan's description of Disney as it is now is probably accurate lol. There's a lot of parents who feel the same way but simply don't know what Universal has to offer.

Will it? Or will there be another group of young boys and gals who are addicted the all the little stuff the mouse throws their way?

I agree it shows with Uni, but they're still ignoring a huge demo. One where most sucker daddies such as myself tend to spend most of our money.
Pretty sure the kids that experience FJ and Spidey are going to convince the other kids (6 and up) to go to Universal. Outdated AAs, broken special FX and declining customer service is tampering the WDW experience. Disneyland and Tokyo Disney are still amazing, but they're not Orlando.

Honestly, Uni could easily cover each kid demo:
  1. Boys (5-9): TMNT, Star Trek, Skylanders, Pokemon
  2. Girls (5-9): MLP, Hello Kitty
  3. Preschool: Sesame Street (just buy out Busch), Dora
  4. All-Ages/Genders: SpongeBob, Scooby-Doo, Mario
Uni appears to be expanding its demographics with each passing year, so who knows whether they'll still ignore kids by 2025?
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
Spirit said the plans for Star Wars Land could be final by May with the announcement at D23. That doesn't sound like something not opening till 2022.

Star Wars land at Disneyland, replacing Toontown, should be announced at D23 this year, to open in 2017/18.

They'll probably also announce the Pixar stuff for DHS, maybe even a renaming, but any East coast Star Wars will have to wait a year before any announcement I suspect.

My guess is the DLR land is classic movie based and Florida plans are sequel based, so they need to wait to see how the first movie or two does before locking plans in for the WDW version.

Avatar took six years from idea to opening, so if we assume plans are already underway I think 2020 is a good bet for Star Wars DHS to open, but it depends... If they have to drain swamp, build a parking garage or reroute the road to expand outwards, it could take longer.
 
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FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
I agree it's not all Disney is about but you're post said there wasn't much of a presence, which there is.

Maybe in DHS, a park in a state of extreme flux and where the aforementioned shows have been rumoured to be on the chopping block, but I don't think a few M&G's and and an under-construction Frozen attraction at Epcot constitutes much of a presence in the grand scheme of things.

They already have more of a presence than I would like as an Epcot fan and in an ideal world they wouldn't be there at all but, again, its not enough to support the original statement in my view.

Maybe our views are different on this matter but I just don't agree with the statement that I initially responded to, in spite of the growing numbers of issues I have with WDW.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Star Wars land at Disneyland, replacing Toontown, should be announced at D23 this year, to open in 2017/18.

They'll probably also announce the Pixar stuff for DHS, maybe even a renaming, but any East coast Star Wars will have to wait a year before any announcement I suspect.

My guess is the DLR land is classic movie based and Florida plans are sequel based, so they need to wait to see how the first movie or two does before locking plans in for the WDW version.

Avatar took six years from idea to opening, so if we assume plans are already underway I think 2020 is a good bet for Star Wars DHS to open, but it depends... If they have to drain swamp, build a parking garage or reroute the road to expand outwards, it could take longer.
As much as I would hate it I could see Disney doing that sadly. For some reason I have hope we'll see announcements for both coasts at D23 though, just a gut feeling. Maybe it's because it's Star Wars and they know many of us are expecting an announcement for everyone and not just Disneyland.
 

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