Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[James Alucobond]

cel,
your #9,138 seems reasonable to me

The first four paragraphs are a semi-reasonable smokescreen for the nonsense of the last two. The Theater in the Wild has a complete theater facade. There is no undisguised or unconvincingly painted warehouse on the front of the building. Untrainable Dragon has a partial theater facade, with the rest clearly being an exposed warehouse. Even if @celluloid dislikes both equally, there is no value in the original comparison. I hate how Zootopia land looks, probably more than I hate the exposed Untrainable Dragon facade. It's still meaningless for me to bring up as a comparison because they suffer from completely different issues and are only adjacent in my personal mental stack rank, not actually similar in reality. The perceived failures of Theater in the Wild tell us nothing about Untrainable Dragon and vice versa.

 

[Andrew C]

I like big boxes and I cannot lie...

 

[celluloid]

You know what I look at things like? The Tony Baxter method continued often by Eddie Sotto's thoughts in interviews when he quotes him:

The best theme park attractions are the ones that happen to you.

And for me personally, one building is me entering a theater that is a theater in the middle of one of the most immersive theme parks in the world for the sake of being a theater.
For some that is a contradiction to the happen to your logic and what is your role there.

The other, is a theater that has its extended walls mural painted that asks for a lot of imagination for some no doubt, and is about the people of The Isle of Berk gathering to see How to Dragon as part of the entire land it is in.
Aesthetic shortcuts don't bother the person whose buy in comes from the entire picture of the theater has a purpose and gives the guest a role.
Asking for a lot of imagination of the sky blue and trees, one is still the stronger theme that my taste just accepts as immersive and what it is there for.

To be as objectively so in terms of immersion to where the theaters are located, the wins for many of Untrainable outweigh the concept lazy in the design phase of giving the theater no purpose Animal Kingdom's theater still has. (The end result in impact is taste, so mileage may vary)

And it is fine if one does not. Plenty of people have come to verbal and tense blow against that thought and Tony's opinions. And plenty of his I also don't agree with. Designers can get divisive and too.

Taste. Even if I am accused of issuing a smokescreen and being treated like I have none.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, that is a wonderful take that we always want more.

The reality is, what becomes acceptable for the venue/attraction is going to vary in taste nearly indefinitely.

The Theater in The Wild situation falls into that same thing.

That’s not the lesson. It’s not an issue of budget. You’re denying different typologies and trying to declare them the same.

 

[celluloid]

That’s not the lesson. It’s not an issue of budget. You’re denying different typologies and trying to declare them the same.

It is often an isue of budget and pleasing more than just the immersion hounds.
There are different auidiences.

If every land was as detailed as Tokyo's Mysterious Island I would love so much of it. But diminishing returns. The reality. There is always a balance even if designers and producers got blank checks.

Parks know that is not sustainable. That is why flaws will be evident. Due to different schools of thought and resources being finite(budget and otherwise)

Gotta please more than one market to stay in business.

I think Untrainable Dragon has all the show writing elements, the character property and enough of an immersion to please the majority of all the reasons people come to a theme park. In a perfect world, after continued success they will continue to improve everywhere. *shrug*

The fact that The Untrainable Dragon exists, a show of its scale in the park (as well as another show of large scale in the park) exist for daily operations in this day in age of designing themed entertainment is great as it is not common.

As a whole, the teams balanced it very well to exist as an extension of a land. I rather this than just a theater in a park that shows a show that does not fit where the theater in the park is located with show writing theme and full attempts at fitting in the area in the other disciplines. That to me, is a reason as a whole it is superior to Nemo in Theater in The Wild.
Theme Parks are of the five senses and emotional catalyst storytelling, not just visual. In a perfect world each aspect would be a blank check. I however, feel Untrainable does this better than Disney's indoor show ventures. There are not many indoor stage show at Disney that have existed in recent decades that attempt this. Even Studios, who has been trying to get away from the Studio Park throughline goes back to Mermaid just being a show in a box for convenience. The Villains show probably similar. No attempt at a tie in to where you will enter the show from being evident thus far.

Nemo hits none of these other than Nemo is an animal, but why Dinoland(now defunct) Asia(no attempt) and ultimately an entire new project area is not currently showing any attempt at enhancing what is outside or inside.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

-Captain Cacao needs a real meet and greet in Celestial.

I feel this has been overlooked because of all the bigger stuff getting attention at Epic, but on top of everything else, Universal is trying to launch their own Duffy the Disney Bear

In Japan they already had that with Bob's (?) teddy bear from the Minions movie, but I don't know if Cacao will catch on.

 

[celluloid]

I feel this has been overlooked because of all the bigger stuff getting attention at Epic, but on top of everything else, Universal is trying to launch their own.

I don't think it will too strongly, and neither do they, part of the change for CP with entertainment has not helped that chance. Maybe something to further develop in the future as a minor I vestments to stir interest once park is established and see if it can stick better then.

HHN is likely to get a bear soon though.

 

[JT3000]

Okay, so next time I talk to Woodbury I’ll mention…..



-The Untrainable theater in park facade needing similar log/wood look all over the building

-An additional berm or fake rock work for Wing Gilders when facing the parking lot

-Coming from the parking lot/entrance area, the Untrainable theater needs a facade matching the entrance plaza/berm/painted green with trees planted

-The Monsters show building next to the Helios pool, needs something

AND

-Captain Cacao needs a real meet and greet in Celestial.

While you're at it, get the back of that one Celestial Park building hidden from Berk, theme the roof and backside of the Mead Hall since it's entirely visible from Wing Gliders, plant more trees around Mine Cart Madness, more trees above the graveyard in Dark Universe, hide the building next to Werewolf's station, and kindly ask Icon Park to tear down the Orlando Eye & Starflyer.

K, thanks.

 

[TalkingHead]

To you, it is not the same thing.

To some, it will be just as acceptale.

That is how taste works.

You don't find sky blue painted and tree foreground murals acceptable. I get it. It is valid.

For some reason you have trouble saying any other take is valid.

Question, why does the Guardians show building bother you when the building is themed to a Pavilion? But the Theater in the wild is acceptable to you in its blandness as in the middle of an immersive park of AK?

Guardians' building for me is because it draws away from Spaceship Earth's staging from the lot, not so much in the park as EPCOT's goals are more often are presentational under the categories that designers have placed on theme parks.

It shows that Universal didn’t really take to heart the lesson of Diagon’s theming. Which was the expectation for this park and it clearly was selectively applied.

 

[eddie104]

It shows that Universal didn’t really take to heart the lesson of Diagon’s theming. Which was the expectation for this park and it clearly was selectively applied.

Obviously the trees need to grow in and let’s remind ourselves of how the MK and DL looked when they first opened.

Also why focus solely on some minor sightline issues instead of all wins they have with this park.

So many details you will miss when trying to nitpick and tear apart something.

 

[UNCgolf]

Obviously the trees need to grow in and let’s remind ourselves of how the MK and DL looked when they first opened.

Also why focus solely on some minor sightline issues instead of all wins they have with this park.

So many details you will miss when trying to nitpick and tear apart something.

I think it's overly dismissive to call them minor sightline issues. They seem to be pretty significant in places, to where even people that absolutely love the park point them out as a clear problem.

Obviously that doesn't mean the park is bad, but it doesn't do Universal any favors to pretend like everything is perfect. Criticism is important.

 

[eddie104]

I think it's overly dismissive to call them minor sightline issues. They seem to be pretty significant in places.

The majority of these problem areas are only visible if you’re looking for them.

Untrainable Theater is definitely bad and I never denied that but literally HTTD is literally filled to the bone with details and excellent theming.

However instead of giving Uni props on those they intentionally focus on criticizing that one building that’s hidden in the back by the way.

 

[celluloid]

It shows that Universal didn’t really take to heart the lesson of Diagon’s theming. Which was the expectation for this park and it clearly was selectively applied.

No park will ever likely have all lands be Diagon level. Especially not an ENTIRE park at opening. Not enough people are ready for a park that cost 300 plus dollars a day in current value. As, as much as I am a theming hound and want immersion, variety

 

[JoeCamel]

While you're at it, get the back of that one Celestial Park building hidden from Berk, theme the roof and backside of the Mead Hall since it's entirely visible from Wing Gliders, plant more trees around Mine Cart Madness, more trees above the graveyard in Dark Universe, hide the building next to Werewolf's station, and kindly ask Icon Park to tear down the Orlando Eye & Starflyer.

K, thanks.

I can do the Starflyer with a bit of funding, it's for sale

 

[UNCgolf]

The majority of these problem areas are only visible if you’re looking for them.

Untrainable Theater is definitely bad and I never denied that but literally HTTD is literally filled to the bone with details and excellent theming.

However instead of giving Uni props on those they intentionally focus on criticizing that one building that’s hidden in the back by the way.

I mean, I haven't been, so I can't comment from personal experience.

But from the comments of people who have been they certainly make it sound like Berk especially has pretty serious problems (far beyond that one building) that are right in your face at times.

The fact that you say they're intentionally focusing on criticizing one building rather than giving Uni props makes me think you're either being disingenuous or you haven't actually read most people's concerns. The same people who have complaints about those issues also have high praise for the park overall. It's not an either/or thing.

 

[celluloid]

I mean, I haven't been, so I can't comment from personal experience.

But from the comments of people who have been they certainly make it sound like Berk especially has pretty serious problems that are right in your face at times.

The fact that you say they're intentionally focusing on criticizing one building rather than giving Uni props makes me think you're either being disingenuous or you haven't actually read most people's concerns. The same people who have complaints about those issues also have high praise for the park overall. It's not an either/or thing.

It is not an either or, but also there are not many places that have zero effort like some are making it out. Still begins better than most opening day's theme parks lesser corners.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No park will ever likely have all lands be Diagon level. Especially not an ENTIRE park at opening. Not enough people are ready for a park that cost 300 plus dollars a day in current value. As, as much as I am a theming hound and want immersion, variety

Diagon Alley didn’t cost nearly a billion dollars but each land in this park did.

 

[JT3000]

It is not an either or, but also there are not many places that have zero effort like some are making it out. Still begins better than most opening day's theme parks lesser corners.

I think whether or not there's been "zero effort" put into the theming and sightlines is irrelevant, because regardless there clearly wasn't nearly enough effort put into things like Untrainable Dragon and Wing Gliders, the latter of which I can confidently say is a complete MESS with a capital M after watching a POV of it. I never imagined a Universal attraction would give me an unobstructed view of a water treatment plant, and that's only one of about a dozen serious thematic violations. It's so bad that I don't know if I can even bring myself to ride this thing before the sun sets. We should freely celebrate the park's triumphs but also voice our concerns about its frankly head-scratching failures.

 

[celluloid]

Diagon Alley didn’t cost nearly a billion dollars but each land in this park did.

Most rides are bigger investments than Gringotts, needed an entirely new Infastructure on land that never had a theme park and over a decade and a half has passed from one opening day to another.

One can't compare theater in the Wild but can pull those choices?
Each land costing near a billion dollars now(all lands have more than one attraction and some multiple more ones) Not to mention multiple new stores and food venues, often at a larger number than Duagon has in real estate.

Get real.

 

[celluloid]

I think whether or not there's been "zero effort" put into the theming and sightlines is irrelevant, because regardless there clearly wasn't nearly enough effort put into things like Untrainable Dragon and Wing Gliders, the latter of which I can confidently say is a complete MESS with a capital M after watching a POV of it. I never imagined a Universal attraction would give me an unobstructed view of a water treatment plant, and that's only one of about a dozen serious thematic violations. It's so bad that I don't know if I can even bring myself to ride this thing before the sun sets. We should freely celebrate the park's triumphs but also voice our concerns about its frankly head-scratching failures.

I don't know of many rides that hit near 50 to a hundred feet that would not give you those kinds of views as they can't control how fast that water treatment plant moves out of there and other real estate not theirs? Thrills always sacrifice sight from heights as you ascend it gets more likely.

I can see icon park from the WDW monorail and near contemporary and it kind of bums me out but I know Disney cannot do much about it within reason.