Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

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JT3000

Well-Known Member
drew81 said:
They could put that same wood/log facade across the entire wall. Seems like it would help.
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They could have, but someone at Universal thinks they're Bob Ross and now we have to put up with this. 🙄 It's almost like they designed the facade first and the show building just randomly materialized on its own later. Heck, I don't even like how visible it is from the back, since it's basically the first thing you notice while approaching the park entrance.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
You don't like the mural paint technique because you don't care for that ask of imagination.
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Good Lord, it's not a desirable technique. It is a surrender to the realities of the budget with a hope that people just ignore it. Are we seriously excusing painted warehouse shells now? There is a difference between a finish you don't like and a lack of finish that no one would ever willingly allow if their budget weren't finite.
 
BrianLo

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Sir_Cliff said:
That does make sense to me, and I feel the same way reading through the Disney side of this forum (which is the only Disney one I still follow). Specifically, there seems to be a mix of those who generally want to discuss and critique the Disney parks but almost every thread has its fair share of posters who reflexively post negative comments and who seem to want to troll Disney more than they care whether it gets any better or not. In particular, a kind of laughing, mocking, and gleeful tone every time something doesn't work or falls short of phenomenal. I don't know the extent to which this is due to things Disney has done, social changes, or something else.

Anyway, I can imagine feeling the same way about people coming on here and critiquing Universal. From my side as someone who is honestly more of a Disney theme park fan than a theme park fan as such, I have found all the "this is really giving Disney a black eye", "Disney is panicking!", etc. talk part of the general noise over on the Disney side of the forum. That's why, when I look at everything coming out of Epic Universe, I find it hard not to think that it has a lot to recommend it, but if this were a new Disney park people would be howling about a lot of things rather than claiming they had outdone themselves. The things that stand out to me and that I have critiqued here are also the kinds of things I critique when they come from Disney, so I think I am at least consistent!

In short, maybe toxic in the community is ruining everything for everyone!
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I think that sense comes from a few of the user base who are gleeful at Disney’s mis-failings who simultaneously have no expectations of Universal that is harder to swallow.

I’m not purposefully contrarian, but aim to actually be consistent. Universal IS what I'm actually more nostalgic for. But the things I criticize (entertainment failings, cloning, inability to pace rides) do bother me on both sides of the fence.

I actually think posters here are generally consistent and the trolls of the forum really aren’t participating actively here… for the most part.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
Good Lord, it's not a desirable technique. It is a surrender to the realities of the budget with a hope that people just ignore it. Are we seriously excusing painted warehouse shells now? There is a difference between a finish you don't like and a lack of finish that no one would ever willingly allow if their budget weren't finite.
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Ok. Let's watch the intro to a post and keep respect as if you are not disregarding my take or intelligence.

Many are not going to see one, or the other more egregious.

I don't think you have to like it, or think it is ideal, but also, a budget is a real thing and there are plenty of picking and choosings of where it will go.

Yes, people will accept things like Theater in the Wild, Untrainable Dragon, the back of Avatar, the back of Monsters if it means the park was not 200 dollars a day.

I would love a completely to the nine park, and different techniques are preferred by different people. Who said excuse? It is taste. I much prefer an attempt with techniques I don't love ot Theater in the Wild do a concept that is creatively zero risk and also a big ask to accept.

I loved Maelstrom. I accepted the odd backdrops that were way too close to me, but knew objectively it was fleshed out. I don't expect others to love it, and to scale it is no Pirates, but objectively, they could see how it is as fleshed out as any other indoor flume ride of the time.

Each project is unique and it is not a design philosophy. Both parks have wins and roughs and a huge set of takes for them all. They are not unanimously bothering people.
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
Ok. Let's watch the respect as if you are disregarding my take or intelligence.
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I'm not disrespecting you. I'm just telling you that the comparison was unwarranted because the two have completely different issues that make such a comparison irrelevant.
celluloid said:
Yes, people will accept things like Theater in the Wild, Untrainable Dragon, the back of Avatar, the back of Monsters if it means the park was not 200 dollars a day.
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Again, one of these is not like the others. Three are warehouse views and one is a facade you (and I!) don't like.
 
J

JT3000

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
Ok. Let's watch the intro to a post and keep respect as if you are not disregarding my take or intelligence.

Many are not going to see one, or the other more egregious.

I don't think you have to like it, or think it is ideal, but also, a budget is a real thing and there are plenty of picking and choosings of where it will go.

Yes, people will accept things like Theater in the Wild, Untrainable Dragon, the back of Avatar, the back of Monsters if it means the park was not 200 dollars a day.

I would love a completely to the nine park, and different techniques are preferred by different people. Who said excuse? It is taste. I much prefer an attempt with techniques I don't love ot Theater in the Wild do a concept that is creatively zero risk and also a big ask to accept.

I loved Maelstrom. I accepted the odd backdrops that were way too close to me, but knew objectively it was fleshed out. I don't expect others to love it, and to scale it is no Pirates, but objectively, they could see how it is as fleshed out as any other indoor flume ride of the time.

Each project is unique and it is not a design philosophy. Both parks have wins and roughs.
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I think the problem with this comparison is that Theater in the Wild is a theme park theater that, for better or worse, doesn't pretend to be anything other than a theme park theater. It essentially has no real theme, whereas the Untrainable Dragon needed one given the more immersive area it's in. If this theater had been tucked into a corner of Celestial Park or something, its half-finished aesthetic would at least be less of a nuisance, but it's not.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
JT3000 said:
I think the problem with this comparison is that Theater in the Wild is a theme park theater that, for better or worse, doesn't pretend to be anything other than a theme park theater. It essentially has no real theme, whereas the Untrainable Dragon needed one given the more immersive area it's in. If this theater had been tucked into a corner of Celestial Park or something, its half-finished aesthetic would at least be less of a nuisance, but it's not.
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I understand that however Disney for some reason does have a facade attempt (funny enough a mural) that just stops. But it is not a have finished aesthetic. It is just a vibrant cartoon entrance that goes to a painted background. I get that people don't want murals once the main facade and functioning entrance ends. But it is also not like there is zero effort.
While immersive, the concept of Untrainable Dragon is based on a local venue of the Isle where people are going to have Hiccup show them how to train a Dragon. One is for some reason a self aware theme park theater of the Asia section of an immersive detailed park of WDW, the other is a cartoon Norse themed fictitious world theater venue. To me it is a draw personally. I just think it is interesting to favor one so strongly while hating the other. Preference is fine. But some really just bash one while accepting the other. That is an odd take to me. Preferences are preferences.
That all addressed, there are other examples of Disney where there was an attempt equal or less, that I think of when I think that people like to use different gloves.
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J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
That all addressed, there are other examples of Disney where there was an attempt equal or less, that I think of when I think that people like to use different gloves.
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No one is treating them with different gloves. See my numerous past complaints about the TRON box, the Cosmic Rewind Box, the Ratatouille box, and your new (actually relevant) image. Theater in the Wild isn't the same thing.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
No one is treating them with different gloves. See my numerous past complaints about the TRON box, the Cosmic Rewind Box, the Ratatouille box, and your new (actually relevant) image. Theater in the Wild isn't the same thing.
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To you, it is not the same thing.

To some, it will be just as acceptale.

That is how taste works.

You don't find sky blue painted and tree foreground murals acceptable. I get it. It is valid.

For some reason you have trouble saying any other take is valid.

Question, why does the Guardians show building bother you when the building is themed to a Pavilion? But the Theater in the wild is acceptable to you in its blandness as in the middle of an immersive park of AK?

Guardians' building for me is because it draws away from Spaceship Earth's staging from the lot, not so much in the park as EPCOT's goals are more often are presentational under the categories that designers have placed on theme parks.
 
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J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
It’s not a matter of taste. It’s something completely different. One is a subjective failure in theming while the other is an objective failure to theme at all. You can have an opinion as to which annoys you more, but you initially brought it up as a “similar” problem at Disney when the two situations are not similar at all.
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
It’s not a matter of taste. It’s something completely different. One is a subjective failure in theming while the other is an objective failure to theme at all. You can have an opinion as to which annoys you more, but you initially brought it up as a “similar” problem at Disney when the two situations are not similar at all.
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Not similar, to you.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
Not similar, in reality.
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your reality*

And the reality is. Sometimes finite resources vary in different areas and do the best they can. Some guests will accept that thing while others will not. Objective is what has happened, how people feel about it by nature, can't be objectively unanimous.

I want more from Toy Story Mania's recycle logo painted on visible show building, but I accept it as effort.
Maelstrom also was limited on space, but I understand they did flesh out scenes and I can't call it unfinished.
 
T

TalkToEthan

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
Question, why does the Guardians show building bother you when the building is themed to a Pavilion? But the Theater in the wild is acceptable to you in its blandness as in the middle of an immersive park of AK?
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They’re both box like…
But Cosmic Rewind dominates Epcot sight lines thus does far more damage.

Both are equally guilty but one does more harm
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
The reality is that, in the realm of themed design, themed facades and unthemed facades are opposites, therefore not remotely similar. Your personal level of annoyance with largely unthemed elements is irrelevant. This isn’t a situation where your personal truth or whatever matters. Your comparison was poor. Yes, similar problems exist at WDW, per some of your later examples, but the first one wasn’t it.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
TalkToEthan said:
They’re both box like…
But Cosmic Rewind dominates Epcot sight lines thus does far more damage.

Both are equally guilty but one does more harm
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Makes sense to me. Especially since the box of Guardians dominates and commands attention from many areas of the park both close and distant, outside and inside.

Making it more angular/shorter/painted differently etc... are objective ways to atempt to address the concerns. The way people respond to the attempt is what is subjective.

The point of it all would please some of us at different rates of an attempt and some still not unless one specific aspect was changed, and some not happy unless show building is never seen from anywhere.

That is where the difference of taste comes in.

Some people are ok with Theater in the Wild beginning as just being a theater, and thus a warehouse is acceptable. Some are going to see that as a strong creative choice. Some will see a theater themed as a theater a lazy creative choice.

We see that all the time in the industry. Varies by taste of audience.
 
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drew81

drew81

Well-Known Member
Okay, so next time I talk to Woodbury I’ll mention…..



-The Untrainable theater in park facade needing similar log/wood look all over the building

-An additional berm or fake rock work for Wing Gilders when facing the parking lot

-Coming from the parking lot/entrance area, the Untrainable theater needs a facade matching the entrance plaza/berm/painted green with trees planted

-The Monsters show building next to the Helios pool, needs something

AND

-Captain Cacao needs a real meet and greet in Celestial.

😂🤣
 

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