News UCF Peach Bowl/National Championship Parade

[Dead2009]

And while I realize the conversation got sidetracked with the "National Championship" talk, why did this thread get moved to Chit Chat? Is it not News that Disney is throwing them a parade on Sunday at the Magic Kingdom? Are you going to add to the news section on the Homepage, @wdwmagic ?

They're treating it like a National Championship victory so we didnt get sidetracked at all

 

[21stamps]

UCF has a lower acceptance rate than both UF and FSU. If I was an undergrad and I had to choose between Gainesville and Orlando to live, work, study and play in, I know which I'd pick (and I did).
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/teenli...and-figures-fall-2016-20161215-story,amp.html

I’d chose a school in Coral Gables.

 

[Horizons1]

UCF has a lower acceptance rate than both UF and FSU. If I was an undergrad and I had to choose between Gainesville and Orlando to live, work, study and play in, I know which I'd pick (and I did).
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/teenli...and-figures-fall-2016-20161215-story,amp.html

So ucf is pretentious and delusional. Makes sense.

 

[UCF]

Again, that was during the BCS era, and the playoff being established was to get rid of all of that.

The BCS was also established to get rid of all of that, and have the top 2 teams compete in the BCS National Championship game. The problem was the system didn't accomplish that goal of making it undisputed, which is why we switched the CFP system (combined with antitrust investigations and lawsuits). The problem is the CFP, while adding 2 more teams, is even more subjective, so just like the BCS National Championship game sometimes didn't declare the only NCAA National Title holder, the same is true for the CFP National Championship game. Its a different system that may make it less frequent to have multiple title holders, but its not a large enough playoff to eliminate it, just as the BCS system failed to as well.

The poster above already said part of what I was going to be respond.

The thing is, they weren’t “offered the title of National Champion”. They claimed it themselves. They did this knowing that there will be an actual national champion declared shortly.

This is the same way Alabama and others have claimed National Championship titles themselves. UCF has a better argument than some of Alabama's self claimed national titles as at least UCF's season is undefeated and they are ranked #1 by NCAA national title selectors, which Alabama has claimed it without either of those conditions in the past.

Their season doesn’t support a National Championship. They had an undefeated season, a great season for sure, but in a weak conference. It ends with the Peach Bowl trophy, great accomplishment, but not national champ. There’s a lot more than just a W or L when it comes to college football.

The computers rank UCF's conference higher then at least one P5 conference, depending on the system you look at. Several P6 conferences were very weak this year, and the AAC was very strong. UCF's schedule had a comparable number of games vs ranked top 25 teams as nearly every P5 school, including those in the CFP.

I attended both UCF and UF (UF first, during the Tebow era), UCF had a better program in my major and was a much better experience for me. UF has its strengths as well, so I definitely wouldn't make a blanket statement like UCF is better for everyone, it depends on your major and the experience your looking for, but UCF was definitely better for me.

 

[21stamps]

The BCS was also established to get rid of all of that, and have the top 2 teams compete in the BCS National Championship game. The problem was the system didn't accomplish that goal of making it undisputed, which is why we switched the CFP system (combined with antitrust investigations and lawsuits). The problem is the CFP, while adding 2 more teams, is even more subjective, so just like the BCS National Championship game sometimes didn't declare the only NCAA National Title holder, the same is true for the CFP National Championship game. Its a different system that may make it less frequent to have multiple title holders, but its not a large enough playoff to eliminate it, just as the BCS system failed to as well.


This is the same way Alabama and others have claimed National Championship titles themselves. UCF has a better argument than some of Alabama's self claimed national titles as at least UCF's season is undefeated and they are ranked #1 by NCAA national title selectors, which Alabama has claimed it without either of those conditions in the past.


The computers rank UCF's conference higher then at least one P5 conference, depending on the system you look at. Several P6 conferences were very weak this year, and the AAC was very strong. UCF's schedule had a comparable number of games vs ranked top 25 teams as nearly every P5 school, including those in the CFP.

I attended both UCF and UF (UF first, during the Tebow era), UCF had a better program in my major and was a much better experience for me. UF has its strengths as well, so I definitely wouldn't make a blanket statement like UCF is better for everyone, it depends on your major and the experience your looking for, but UCF was definitely better for me.

You are still not understanding what myself and a few others are saying.. which is the following, one more time-

The “claims” you are talking about happened years after the season had ended.. under an easily disputed, extremely flawed system.

Those days are over, which is why UCF, and anyone defending them on this subject, is completely delusional.

 

[NearTheEars]

I’m a bit amazed that so many are so perturbed by this idea.

A bit of history that all of us know (and while this may sound pedantic, I’m not intending it to be so):

For most of a century, college football ended its season with a number of bowl games. At the end of the season, there were often a number of teams who were declared “National Champions.” IIRC, I believe that as many as six were declared within one year.

Sometimes, those teams lost more than one game in a year (prior to LSU recently) and yet were still declared National Champions.

The BCS just created one bowl to rule them all. But it clearly didn’t encompass the teams deserving. Nor does this one.

Thus, as per the history of the sport supports, there is no legitimate reason that UCF shouldn’t accept the title of National Champion if it is offered to them. Their season supports it; the NCAA doesn’t deny it to them; and until a clear champion can be declared, they have as good a claim as one of the SEC schools.

(FWIW, my alma mater is UT Austin)

This is like the 5th time this has been bought up. This isn't BCS or pre BCS. They started a playoff system to create an undisputed National Champion. "UNDISPUTED" was all over the marketing and memorabilia the first year it started. It's pretty simple.

 

[NearTheEars]

Major LOL at anyone who says they have never heard of UCF? The second largest in the great USA in terms of enrollment?? Where have you been living, under a rock? If you wanna talk about a school no one knows about, try my alma mater Appalachian State. Now that's an obscure school

Yeah. I'm definitely not a big fan of people mocking the school or team in this thread. It's not just some small no-name school. And they've won a major bowl in the recent past.

 

[larryz]

Bama, in my opinion was inferior to UCF.

I love how you buried this juicy gem in the middle of all that text.

Look, I'm no 'Bama fan. I won't even eat Bama peanut butter or jelly. But I'm pretty darn sure that if Bama and UCF were to meet on the gridiron, UCF would be on the short end of the score at halftime, and most likely 40 or so points behind at the end of the game.

 

[rreading]

This is like the 5th time this has been bought up. This isn't BCS or pre BCS. They started a playoff system to create an undisputed National Champion. "UNDISPUTED" was all over the marketing and memorabilia the first year it started. It's pretty simple.

Again, I don’t have a dog in this hunt, and really don’t care...but really? It’s clear and simple because it’s on the marketing and memorabilia?

This “playoff system” is really marginally better than what has come before. I think most everyone agrees that more teams need be included. The point of the playoff should be to allow each team with a legitimate claim to the title a chance to show up. Were UCF a FCS team, the topic would be moot - and they would have had their chance since FCS crowns a true champion.

 

[doctornick]

Just to be clear, there is no official "National Champion" for Div 1-FBS college football (there is for Division 1-FCS, the former 1-AA). Yes, there is a thing called the "College Football Playoff" and, yes, they call the winner of that a "national champion" but it is not a recognized proper NCAA championship. It is no different than any "National Championship" for 1-FBS (former 1-A) football that has happened ever in the past.

UCF has as much a right to declare themselves a "national champion" as the winner of the Georgia/Bama game will.

By all means, here is the NCAA official site. Feel free to find the information on that site about the NCAA Div 1-FBS football championship. I'll be waiting.

 

[21stamps]

Again, I don’t have a dog in this hunt, and really don’t care...but really? It’s clear and simple because it’s on the marketing and memorabilia?

This “playoff system” is really marginally better than what has come before. I think most everyone agrees that more teams need be included. The point of the playoff should be to allow each team with a legitimate claim to the title a chance to show up. Were UCF a FCS team, the topic would be moot - and they would have had their chance since FCS crowns a true champion.

Just to be clear, there is no official "National Champion" for Div 1-FBS college football (there is for Division 1-FCS, the former 1-AA). Yes, there is a thing called the "College Football Playoff" and, yes, they call the winner of that a "national champion" but it is not a recognized proper NCAA championship. It is no different than any "National Championship" for 1-FBS (former 1-A) football that has happened ever in the past.

UCF has as much a right to declare themselves a "national champion" as the winner of the Georgia/Bama game will.

By all means, here is the NCAA official site. Feel free to find the information on that site about the NCAA Div 1-FBS football championship. I'll be waiting.

The playoffs should be expanded.
UCF had a great year.


Doesn’t change the way it is now, doesn’t change the schedule that UCF had.
Doesn’t change the fact that UCF players and fans will be watching the actual championship game, on television.


I’m sorry, but this is an insult to college football programs and college football fans everywhere.

The NFL has enough foolishness, let’s not bring negative drama to NCAA football.

 

[doctornick]

While I don’t agree with all the folks mocking @UCF the poster and UCF the school, the point above still seems lost on the poster. The new system is designed to eliminate the chance of having split titles. That was the whole point of finally creating a playoff system.

The "whole point" of the "College Football Playoff" is to make money. It is a way to use the pretense of a "real" national champion

If the Div 1-FBS schools and the NCAA wanted to have a proper playoff and actual undisputed champion, they could do it. Heck, the NCAA already runs one for 1-FCS.

 

[21stamps]

The "whole point" of the "College Football Playoff" is to make money. It is a way to use the pretense of a "real" national champion

If the Div 1-FBS schools and the NCAA wanted to have a proper playoff and actual undisputed champion, they could do it. Heck, the NCAA already runs one for 1-FCS.

They should do it. I think most people wish that we had an 8 team playoff.
As of now, we don’t.

One thing to remember, this isn’t basketball. It’s a different game with a heck of a lot more risk involved with every play.

 

[doctornick]

The playoffs should be expanded.
UCF had a great year.


Doesn’t change the way it is now, doesn’t change the schedule that UCF had.
Doesn’t change the fact that UCF players and fans will be watching the actual championship game, on television.


I’m sorry, but this is an insult to college football programs and college football fans everywhere.

I'm a huge college football fan, season ticket holder and voracious watcher of games. The insult would be in pretending that a 4 team "playoff" with arbitrary entry and a committee behind closed doors that picks all the teams would be a "legitimate" playoff. Create a system where every team can earn entry based on their play on the field and a large enough field to be inclusive and then it will be an actual proper NCAA championship.

There is no NCAA 1-FBS championship. Heck, the names of the divisions spells that out -- "Football Bowl Subdivison" versus "Football Championship Subdivison".

As an aside, I personally don't care about whether or not 1-FBS has an actual champion. I actually preferred the old system with the debates and multiple polls. I feel there's too much attention on the playoff and it's detrimental to the sport. I don't see the need for every sport to "have to" have a champion declared. What's wrong with just winning as many games as possible as being the ultimate goal?

 

[21stamps]

I'm a huge college football fan, season ticket holder and voracious watcher of games. The insult would be in pretending that a 4 team "playoff" with arbitrary entry and a committee behind closed doors that picks all the teams would be a "legitimate" playoff. Create a system where every team can earn entry based on their play on the field and a large enough field to be inclusive and then it will be an actual proper NCAA championship.

There is no NCAA 1-FBS championship. Heck, the names of the divisions spells that out -- "Football Bowl Subdivison" versus "Football Championship Subdivison".

As an aside, I personally don't care about whether or not 1-FBS has an actual champion. I actually preferred the old system with the debates and multiple polls. I feel there's too much attention on the playoff and it's detrimental to the sport. I don't see the need for every sport to "have to" have a champion declared. What's wrong with just winning as many games as possible as being the ultimate goal?

I’ll adrress your last sentence first- money, the school, boosters, recruiting.

Now to your first paragraph.. I’m in complete agreement with you. I hated the BCS and I’m not a huge fan of the CFP Committee.. but the only “pure” way to do it would be to model NCAA Basketball brackets.. that’s unrealistic for football players.

 

[21stamps]

I love how you buried this juicy gem in the middle of all that text.

Look, I'm no 'Bama fan. I won't even eat Bama peanut butter or jelly. But I'm pretty darn sure that if Bama and UCF were to meet on the gridiron, UCF would be on the short end of the score at halftime, and most likely 40 or so points behind at the end of the game.

I hate Alabama and Georgia... I hate the entire SEC lol... but I’ll be cheering for Georgia in the final.

I don’t think UCF would have a prayer against any team in the top 6 of the polls. Would be interesting to watch though. I like your idea of making “self-claimed” champions play the actual champion of the final game.

 

[doctornick]

They should do it. I think most people wish that we had an 8 team playoff.
As of now, we don’t.

One thing to remember, this isn’t basketball. It’s a different game with a heck of a lot more risk involved with every play.

I’ll adrress your last sentence first- money, the school, boosters, recruiting.

Now to your first paragraph.. I’m in complete agreement with you. I hated the BCS and I’m not a huge fan of the CFP Committee.. but the only “pure” way to do it would be to model NCAA Basketball brackets.. that’s unrealistic for football players.

Not all all, that's not why there's no proper playoff. Heck, 1-FCS does it with a 24 team playoff.

The main reason is that the power conference do not want to have a real NCAA sponsored playoff because they'd lose control of the system, especially because they wouldn't make the lion's share of the money. For the NCAA basketball tournament, the NCAA gets all the money and can distribute to member schools. For the "College Football Playoff", the bowls get the money (realize that the "playoffs" is just a slightly expanded bowl system with one game played after the rest) and distribute money to the conferences with most money going to...you know, the power conferences.

And to do a proper playoff, you'd have to cut the regular season short and possible eliminate conference championship games. That ain't gonna happen given how much money power teams would be giving up from losing home football dates and inventory for their TV and sponsorship deals.

Again, an actual playoff could happen, if the schools wanted it. They don't. They could implement the FCS system tomorrow quite easily if they wanted. But the power schools would be foolish to give up their massive edge in revenues and control over the system by allowing the NCAA to run a true playoffs.

So.... here we are with a "championship" that is just as mythical as it ever was. Just more gussied up to superficially appear more "legit".

 

[21stamps]

Not all all, that's not why there's no proper playoff. Heck, 1-FCS does it with a 24 team playoff.

The main reason is that the power conference do not want to have a real NCAA sponsored playoff because they'd lose control of the system, especially because they wouldn't make the lion's share of the money. For the NCAA basketball tournament, the NCAA gets all the money and can distribute to member schools. For the "College Football Playoff", the bowls get the money (realize that the "playoffs" is just a slightly expanded bowl system with one game played after the rest) and distribute money to the conferences with most money going to...you know, the power conferences.

And to do a proper playoff, you'd have to cut the regular season short and possible eliminate conference championship games. That ain't gonna happen given how much money power teams would be giving up from losing home football dates and inventory for their TV and sponsorship deals.

Again, an actual playoff could happen, if the schools wanted it. They don't. They could implement the FCS system tomorrow quite easily if they wanted. But the power schools would be foolish to give up their massive edge in revenues and control over the system by allowing the NCAA to run a true playoffs.

So.... here we are with a "championship" that is just as mythical as it ever was. Just more gussied up to superficially appear more "legit".

I agree with you more than you probably realize.. but, I don’t think the regular season should be cut short, and I don’t think that conference championship games should go away.. I do think, as you said, that this would need to happen to make a “real” playoff system.

I think, at best, we can hope to see an 8 team playoff soon. I doubt it would go beyond that... and even at 8 there will still be teams “left out”.. I just don’t think that any of those teams should declare themselves a National Champion when they only played 1 quality team.. especially when said quality team ended with 4 L’s on their record.

 

[UCF]

I hate Alabama and Georgia... I hate the entire SEC lol... but I’ll be cheering for Georgia in the final.

I don’t think UCF would have a prayer against any team in the top 6 of the polls. Would be interesting to watch though. I like your idea of making “self-claimed” champions play the actual champion of the final game.

Did you believe UCF had a chance against Auburn? And I'm assuming you chose top 6 because Auburn was #7 and was manhandled by UCF the entire game, do you generally believe someone who can dominate the #7 team in the polls wouldn't have a prayer against 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, or 1?

I'm sure UCF would be happy to add a game and play the winner for an actual undisputed national title. Alabama and Georgia, however, are too likely scared of losing and have nothing to gain, they're both happy to split a championship.

It doesn't take much to make it fair. Use the conference championship game of each conference to determine the 1 and only team that qualifies for the playoff, and if you expand it to 8, and say the top 8 ranked conference champions make the playoff, and any conference with an undefeated conference champion is guaranteed a spot, you only add 1 game and have ultimately a 16 team playoff that is fair and really uses the entire season to determine who gets in. The chances of having more then a few undefeated conference champions is slim to none, it just never has happened, and likely never will, so the odds of more then 1 "weak but undefeated" conference champion is almost nothing.

 

[21stamps]

Did you believe UCF had a chance against Auburn? And I'm assuming you chose top 6 because Auburn was #7 and was manhandled by UCF the entire game, do you generally believe someone who can dominate the #7 team in the polls wouldn't have a prayer against 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, or 1?

I'm sure UCF would be happy to add a game and play the winner for an actual undisputed national title. Alabama and Georgia, however, are too likely scared of losing and have nothing to gain, they're both happy to split a championship.

It doesn't take much to make it fair. Use the conference championship game of each conference to determine the 1 and only team that qualifies for the playoff, and if you expand it to 8, and say the top 8 ranked conference champions make the playoff, and any conference with an undefeated conference champion is guaranteed a spot, you only add 1 game and have ultimately a 16 team playoff that is fair and really uses the entire season to determine who gets in. The chances of having more then a few undefeated conference champions is slim to none, it just never has happened, and likely never will, so the odds of more then 1 "weak but undefeated" conference champion is almost nothing.

Actually, I included 5&6 because they won their bowl games.. both of which had better teams and a better resume than Auburn going into the bowl games.

Your next paragraph doesn’t fit college football. I’m not trying to be rude, but it doesn’t make sense.