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Tree of life 'grows' new roots

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Just asking if you had a documented source that the Beastly Kingdom portion (and therefore the "animals that never were" portion) was intentionally Euro-centric and it's purpose was to show how European interacted with nature through mythology?
Just because it is not written (and you've already dismissed Disney published literature) does not mean it cannot be noticed. Which of the Beastlie Kingdom animals jump out as non-European? Or were created to be purely fictional?
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Just because it is not written (and you've already dismissed Disney published literature) does not mean it cannot be noticed. Which of the Beastlie Kingdom animals jump out as non-European? Or were created to be purely fictional?
I didn't dismiss anything. I only pointed out that Disney is going to harmonize their message for the most part and that includes minimizing the fact that a major component of their park didn't get built because of budget cuts.

Most of your argument seems to be centered around your opinion and not fact. Thats fine but unless you can do something to definitively prove your opinion beyond answering a question with a question this isn't very productive.

You've not provided any evidence that the purpose of Beastly Kingdom was to show that mythical European creatures demonstrates an interaction between humans and the environment.

I on the other hand have provided a simple mission statement that I was trained on firsthand when the messaging of the park was very strong in its infancy.

So unless you can provide something a bit more definitive to support your very specific hypothesis than "European mythical creatures are European" I believe we are done here.
 
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ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Personally I would have preferred an ANZAC land, plenty of myths from the lands down under from the Maori of New Zealand to the Aboriginal people of Oz. Lots of animals not seen anywhere else on earth and the great barrier reef as well.

Instead we get blue cat people - simply because Iger saw OMG biggest box office ever let's put this thing in AK well, because BOX OFFICE.
 

note2001

Well-Known Member
All in all, I think Animal Kingdom is the best thought out & themed amusement park of the 4 in WDW. I'm glad they needed to expand the pathway as it shows people are no longer looking at it as the last place to visit, if they have time. Even the addition of the new Pandora/Avatar area will be well done I'm sure.

This needs one word added: "wins" :)
It doesn't mean anyone will listen to it though.
 
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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I didn't dismiss anything. I only pointed out that Disney is going to harmonize their message for the most part and that includes minimizing the fact that a major component of their park didn't get built because of budget cuts.

Most of your argument seems to be centered around your opinion and not fact. Thats fine but unless you can do something to definitively prove your opinion beyond answering a question with a question this isn't very productive.

You've not provided any evidence that the purpose of Beastly Kingdom was to show that mythical European creatures demonstrates an interaction between humans and the environment.

I on the other hand have provided a simple mission statement that I was trained on firsthand when the messaging of the park was very strong in its infancy.

So unless you can provide something a bit more definitive to support your very specific hypothesis than "European mythical creatures are European" I believe we are done here.
The dragon tease included charred European medieval armor. The dragon chosen was European dragon, not a Chinese dragon. The unicorn is European. Centaurs are European. Gothic and Romasesque architecture is European. All of the other lands look to a location. There is no obscurity in their origin. It seems you've never bothered to even look at the art that has been released or ever visited Merlinwood at Islands of Adventure.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
The dragon tease included charred European medieval armor. The dragon chosen was European dragon, not a Chinese dragon. The unicorn is European. Centaurs are European. Gothic and Romasesque architecture is European. All of the other lands look to a location. There is no obscurity in their origin. It seems you've never bothered to even look at the art that has been released or ever visited Merlinwood at Islands of Adventure.
I'm not debating their origin but their placement does nothing to prove your thesis that their inclusion was to demonstrate interactions between humans and their natural environment. Mythical environment sure, the mere placement of the animals demonstrate that...natural environment, no.

It's okay to just simply admit that the point you were trying to make was too specific for the evidence at hand. Again simply repeating over and over again that "European mythical creatures are European" doesn't show any relationship between said creatures and how humans interacted with their environment.

As for looking at the concept art, I have looked at it. I've looked at enough that I can actually answer this question you proposed earlier:

Which of the Beastlie Kingdom animals...were created to be purely fictional?
That would be the dancing hippo and gator from the proposed Fantasia boat ride.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'm not debating their origin but their placement does nothing to prove your thesis that their inclusion was to demonstrate interactions between humans and their natural environment. Mythical environment sure, the mere placement of the animals demonstrate that...natural environment, no.

It's okay to just simply admit that the point you were trying to make was too specific for the evidence at hand. Again simply repeating over and over again that "European mythical creatures are European" doesn't show any relationship between said creatures and how humans interacted with their environment.

As for looking at the concept art, I have looked at it. I've looked at enough that I can actually answer this question you proposed earlier:

That would be the dancing hippo and gator from the proposed Fantasia boat ride.
Look at the origin of the fictional animals.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Look at the origin of the fictional animals.
How was Beastly Kingdom going to demonstrate this? Again, simple placement doesn't constitute the motive you were subscribing to the land.

How does the unicorn maze demonstrate a connection between the unicorn and and how Europeans used unicorn mythology to interact with their environment?

Bottom line, you're thesis is too specific and based on the evidence available you can't demonstrate it's validity.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
How was Beastly Kingdom going to demonstrate this? Again, simple placement doesn't constitute the motive you were subscribing to the land.

How does the unicorn maze demonstrate a connection between the unicorn and and how Europeans used unicorn mythology to interact with their environment?

Bottom line, you're thesis is too specific and based on the evidence available you can't demonstrate it's validity.
It was demonstrated by engaging people in the mythology, just like at Expedition Everest. Themed entertainment is not a text book, it is not all spelled out. There are plenty of fictional animals, but there is one common strain through all of those chosen by the creative team that dreamed up the park. No aliens, no purely fictional creatures, no animals just made up for the park. All of the animals chosen are rooted in cultural understandings of the world: folklore, myth, legend; not contemporary story telling. Years of research and work go into a park. It was no accident that aliens were never part of the plan until chosen by financial executives.

Rhoda's career is dominated by an obsession with research into places and topics, so much so though Disney decided that the best way to tease Pandora at the D23 Expo was to pretend that he had taken Imagineers on another research trip. Science fiction is just not the sort of thing Rohde has done in his career as a creative leader. You can't actually visit Pandora or do more than just talk to James Cameron, and as cools that may be it is not the same as trekking across the Himalayas to put research a fictional creature (to understand its cultural origins).
 
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jakeman

Well-Known Member
It was demonstrated by engaging people in the mythology, just like at Expedition Everest. Themed entertainment is not a text book, it is not all spelled out. There are plenty of fictional animals, but there is one common strain through all of those chosen by the creative team that dreamed up the park. No aliens, no purely fictional creatures, no animals just made up for the park. All of the animals chosen are rooted in cultural understandings of the world: folklore, myth, legend; not contemporary story telling. Years of research and work go into a park. It was no accident that aliens were never part of the plan until chosen by financial executives.

Rhoda's career is dominated by an obsession with research into places and topics, so much so though Disney decided that the best way to tease Pandora at the D23 Expo was to pretend that he had taken Imagineers on another research trip. Science fiction is just not the sort of thing Rohde has done in his career as a creative leader. You can't actually visit Pandora or do more than just talk to James Cameron, and as cools that may be it is not the same as trekking across the Himalayas to put research a fictional creature (to understand its cultural origins).
No purely fictional creatures? Fanstasia? Bugs Life? Festival of the Lion King? How are those not fictional? How are those not contemporary storytelling?

The more you post, the more it's obvious that this is your opinion based in very little fact.

Let me drops something else on you. The original intent of the park was that the three areas were to be cordoned off. The northern section of the park for animals that are, Dinoland for were, and Beastly Kingdom for never will be. That was dropped when Beastly Kingdom fell through. It's a simple theme. "Animals that were, are, and never will be". There's none of this existential buffoonery you're assigning to it.

It doesn't mean that Avatar fits or doesn't. I'm not saying one way or another. What I am saying is this nitpicking that you are doing about Beastly Kingdom being the European mythological demonstration of humans interaction with nature isn't supported by the facts we have. It's not even supported by the mythological creatures that were chosen.

What I'm telling you is what I was trained on first hand by people passionate about the park and it's message at a time when Camp Minnie Mickey was still seen as a placeholder for Beastly Kingdom. You can either accept the information that I'm giving you as is, or you can continue to ignore it and proceed on this imaginative tirade where there is a deep significance that require leaps in logic.

With that said, we are going around in circles, so I'm out. This was fun.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Rhoda's career is dominated by an obsession with research into places and topics, so much so though Disney decided that the best way to tease Pandora at the D23 Expo was to pretend that he had taken Imagineers on another research trip. Science fiction is just not the sort of thing Rohde has done in his career as a creative leader. You can't actually visit Pandora or do more than just talk to James Cameron, and as cools that may be it is not the same as trekking across the Himalayas to put research a fictional creature (to understand its cultural origins).
I really wish that "Journey to Sacred Lands" documentary they did of the Everest research trip had better internet circulation. There's multiple uploads of the special focused on the ride's construction floating around Youtube but none of that special. I'd watch a whole show about Joe Rohde going on adventures around the world.
 

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