Tramway project and security relocation at TTC.

[Rob562]

Level loading so that wheelchairs, ECVs and strollers can just slide right in without assistance really would be a great way to help with efficiency and crowd distribution.

It's my understanding that the platforms and train floors are as close as they possibly can be with the current train design. They can't be totally level.

The problem stems from how the doors hinge and lock. To unlock, they first have to drop about 1", then they swing outward. It's this drop, coupled with a little extra clearance to account for the train rocking back and forth while in the station, that keeps the platform from being raised any higher to allow for level roll-on/roll-off like a elevator.

The only change I could see would be either a platform that slid out from under the floor to become a ramp (unlikely given the space available), or hydraulic ramps built into the platform. Such a ramp would sit flush with the platform when not in use, but would raise up to meet the train at floor level. This would require the trains to hit their parking spot precisely, and also only deploy when the train doors are fully open, and conversely the train doors must stay open until the ramps are fully retracted. That would have to come after the trains are fully automated, and I guess the door controls and positions would have to be able to "talk" to the platform ramp computer.

-Rob

 

[Rob562]

And to bring the discussion back to the TTC, based on the pics and that they're blocking off the western pedestrian walkway, my vote is that this project is solely to rework pedestrian traffic for safety reasons. Force all pedestrians walking out to the lot to use the eastern sidewalk in the underpass, and make the only place where they cross the tramway near the TTC out in the parking lot side where there's less "stimuli" to distract tram drivers and pedestrians. The planter removal would be some new design to discourage Guests from walking out into the tram lane in the general direction of the parking lot while at the tram loading area.

-Rob

 

[devoy1701]

planters are being removed. ttc is totally being renovated. security is being moved to ttc. now. tram loading areas are moving.

That image irritates me because it's overly complex and not realistic. Here's a far more realistic representation

View attachment 165609

How is the pre-screening done for those arriving by monorail or boat? Is there screening in front of each transportation entrance at the resorts and the TTC?

For example, on one day I have an brunch ADR at Narcoosees then plan to monorail hop to checkout the resorts and maybe quickly jump into MK to shop the Emporium. For this security plan to work and be pre-screened, in my plan I guess I would need to be screened at the GF monorail or boat entrance even if never wanting to enter MK. Looks like screening would be needed at the monorail and/or boat entrances at CR, Poly, GF, and WL. Bus screening is handled as you indicate.

I think a better solution is pre-screening for express monorail and ferry guests at the TTC. Then route them directly to the entrance after they disembark. Resort monorail and boat transportation are directed to the same screening moved farther back from the entrance. CR pathway and bus have their own screening as well.

This makes sense on why the Ferry Unload infront of MK also has walls up. The picture that @roj2323 posted seems to make sense. All of the ferry and monorail traffic could be prescreened. Routing the Ferry Unload west against the lagoon instead of north along the same walk where the buses unload will give plenty of room to allow for screening there. Plus there is plenty of room in the TTC courtyard to allow for security screening, which will finally clean up the traffic mess at the front of MK. The only one that I don't think is clear is what they do with the resort boat launches. Perhaps the traffic is light enough to have the screening right when they get off the dock, but that doesn't solve the problem of securing the boats themselves, which at times can have 20-100 people on them depending on what watercraft is in use. I just can't see them putting in security screenings at each of the individual resort launches.

I'm not sure what this all has to do with the planters being removed and the pedestrian walkway being closed, but I'm hopeful that we'll get a BETTER pedestrian walkway out of this. I really hate the bottleneck of going under Seven Seas Drive.

 

[NearTheEars]

Does any part of this have the TTC being relocated? There was a rumor of that being a possibility?

The rumor goes back to the beginning of this year from the Unofficial Guide's Disney Dish w/Jim Hill. Jim acknowledged that this was far fetched, but basically this was the thought process:

• TTC Relocation: This relocation involves multiple moving parts.
  • The former STOL port airport is an area of land immediately East of the Magic Kingdom Parking lot. This area is typically used for construction staging, but the new plan is to turn this into the new offsite bus parking area. Transportation would take guests arriving by offsite bus to the Ticket and Transportation Center via some sort of transportation (presumably a standard parking tram).
  • This would eliminate the need for the existing Bus area immediately to the right (East) of the Ticket and Transportation Center.
  • The TTC would be relocated to the new Bus area and would take into consideration the different demands of today's guests (ADA Compliance, larger crowds, ECVs, strollers, etc).
• New Resort: With the TTC relocated, this allows the former TTC area to be the entrance to a new resort with the area directly North of this area (along Seven Seas Lagoon) potentially being used as part of this new resort.

Obviously plans change, but didn't they just spend a lot of time constructing emergency exit stairs off the platform, and a new ferry dock?

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

It's my understanding that the platforms and train floors are as close as they possibly can be with the current train design. They can't be totally level.

The problem stems from how the doors hinge and lock. To unlock, they first have to drop about 1", then they swing outward. It's this drop, coupled with a little extra clearance to account for the train rocking back and forth while in the station, that keeps the platform from being raised any higher to allow for level roll-on/roll-off like a elevator.

The only change I could see would be either a platform that slid out from under the floor to become a ramp (unlikely given the space available), or hydraulic ramps built into the platform. Such a ramp would sit flush with the platform when not in use, but would raise up to meet the train at floor level. This would require the trains to hit their parking spot precisely, and also only deploy when the train doors are fully open, and conversely the train doors must stay open until the ramps are fully retracted. That would have to come after the trains are fully automated, and I guess the door controls and positions would have to be able to "talk" to the platform ramp computer.

-Rob

This. As you can see in the below photo (not mine)...

(http://d2eu5panhhlmd4.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/IMG_5502-001.jpg)

...the hinges for the door mechanism are located beneath the floor of the trains. Having a level platform floor would prevent the doors from being able to swing open in a station.

Even something like a hydraulic platform floor that rises up is virtually impossible because the doors, when open, extend over the platform and sit lower than the train floor. So you can't have one length of hydraulic floor for the entire platform because it'd just bang into the doors. And while you could try to have a hydraulic ramp for each individual opening, there's VERY little margin of error to work with. The monorails would have to stop (literally) within a inch of their stopping points on the platform for such a system to work, and that's pretty close to impossible to do consistently and efficiently.

While it's a topic for another thread completely, this does show that the door design of the Mark VI trains leaves a lot to be desired, and is yet another reason why WDW really needed new trains yesterday, or at the very least, complete rebuilds of the bodies and mechanical components.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

This makes sense on why the Ferry Unload infront of MK also has walls up. The picture that @roj2323 posted seems to make sense. All of the ferry and monorail traffic could be prescreened. Routing the Ferry Unload west against the lagoon instead of north along the same walk where the buses unload will give plenty of room to allow for screening there. Plus there is plenty of room in the TTC courtyard to allow for security screening, which will finally clean up the traffic mess at the front of MK. The only one that I don't think is clear is what they do with the resort boat launches. Perhaps the traffic is light enough to have the screening right when they get off the dock, but that doesn't solve the problem of securing the boats themselves, which at times can have 20-100 people on them depending on what watercraft is in use. I just can't see them putting in security screenings at each of the individual resort launches.

I'm not sure what this all has to do with the planters being removed and the pedestrian walkway being closed, but I'm hopeful that we'll get a BETTER pedestrian walkway out of this. I really hate the bottleneck of going under Seven Seas Drive.

Maybe they can shift the tram lanes to the far left and then double the width of the pedestrian walkway through the tunnel, at the minimum. will have to wait and see.

 

[jt04]

Does any part of this have the TTC being relocated? There was a rumor of that being a possibility?

The rumor goes back to the beginning of this year from the Unofficial Guide's Disney Dish w/Jim Hill. Jim acknowledged that this was far fetched, but basically this was the thought process:

• TTC Relocation: This relocation involves multiple moving parts.
  • The former STOL port airport is an area of land immediately East of the Magic Kingdom Parking lot. This area is typically used for construction staging, but the new plan is to turn this into the new offsite bus parking area. Transportation would take guests arriving by offsite bus to the Ticket and Transportation Center via some sort of transportation (presumably a standard parking tram).
  • This would eliminate the need for the existing Bus area immediately to the right (East) of the Ticket and Transportation Center.
  • The TTC would be relocated to the new Bus area and would take into consideration the different demands of today's guests (ADA Compliance, larger crowds, ECVs, strollers, etc).
• New Resort: With the TTC relocated, this allows the former TTC area to be the entrance to a new resort with the area directly North of this area (along Seven Seas Lagoon) potentially being used as part of this new resort.

Even if this is not the complete plan it would be a good start. A dedicated MK resorts boutique water park with monorail access would be nice. Convinced one of the tracks should be dedicated to MK resorts and their guests.

 

[WDWtraveler]

Photo update as of Friday, October 14. The tight turn out of the tram tunnel into the Ticket and Transportation Center tram lot appears to have been eliminated, as that corner is now paved over. Sidewalk yet to be paved.

An update behind the construction fence in the tram lot, looking south. Most of the planter boxes have been completely eliminated. The planter box at the end, surrounding the monorail beam support, will likely be kept in place. The planter box has been reshaped on the opposite side, with new concrete forms ready for a concrete pour.

 

[roj2323]

Photo update as of Friday, October 14. The tight turn out of the tram tunnel into the Ticket and Transportation Center tram lot appears to have been eliminated, as that corner is now paved over. Sidewalk yet to be paved.

View attachment 169613

View attachment 169614

An update behind the construction fence in the tram lot, looking south. Most of the planter boxes have been completely eliminated. The planter box at the end, surrounding the monorail beam support, will likely be kept in place. The planter box has been reshaped on the opposite side, with new concrete forms ready for a concrete pour.

View attachment 169615

Thanks for the update! I was just thinking about this project.

 

[SJFPKT]

Maybe something like this?
View attachment 165662

Your design is pretty good, but as for the monorails and bypassing security while keeping resort guest separate from express guest, simply make the current entrances the exit and the exit the entrance. In your scenario all a resort gues would have to do is hop over that little barricade.

 

[JohnD]

Your design is pretty good, but as for the monorails and bypassing security while keeping resort guest separate from express guest, simply make the current entrances the exit and the exit the entrance. In your scenario all a resort gues would have to do is hop over that little barricade.

Agree.

 

[roj2323]

Photos by https://twitter.com/bioreconstruct

 

[matt9112]

Photos by https://twitter.com/bioreconstruct

View attachment 169795 View attachment 169796 View attachment 169797

do you think the actual path of tram will be changed or just getting rid of sidewalks ect so people are not there.

 

[roj2323]

do you think the actual path of tram will be changed or just getting rid of sidewalks ect so people are not there.

Yes but the big questions are how and more importantly, Why.

 

[Otamin]

Yes but the big questions are how and more importantly, Why.

Probably not enough concrete...

 

[Fairy32]

I was in Disney during the Pulse shooting. Every time we rode the Ferry, all I could think about was how big and easy of a target it was. I do hope they add security prior to boarding the ferry/monorails.

 

[Rider]

Looks like this project was just to rebuild the planters. They are already almost finished.

 

[jt04]

Looks like this project was just to rebuild the planters. They are already almost finished.

Hoping it is the 3rd or 4th stage in a multi-stage process. Think Walt's E.P.C.O.T. transportation visions. That would be a good goal.

 

[nepalostparks]

Here's what the sidewalk looked like as of yesterday:

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

Looks like they have been working on the tramway planters off and on for the last six year or so. Here's a nice comparison of Google Earth Aerials of the Tramway area at TTC. In addition you can see other changes as well, like the removal of more trees more recently near the TTC Gift Shop.

This one is September 30th 2006. Think the turn was tight for the trams recently. Look how tight it was pre 2010. There was an extra planter in the way. I circled it in red.

This one is Dec 31, 2009. Kinda blurry but the planter is still there in red.

This one is Nov 11, 2011. First planter on the right is gone here, in red. You can even clearly see the pavement color difference where it was. Also notice now in blue some of the trees that will soon be gone in a few years.

This one here is most recent as of March 5th 2016. Notice all those trees are now gone.