"Tragic Kingdom" report?

[Darth Sidious]

I love the Marvel deal and I like it more as I watch the movies. However it is questionable to pay so much for a company only to have to spend a considerable amount more to purchase back the rights to your characters. I mean it isn't a huge deal but you'd like to be able to have full control over your properties.

I just imagine how cool it would be to make a Marvel park with Stark Tower and Stark Expo (modified NYs World Fair expo) grounds being generally the layout. It would be so cool... Sometimes I wish I could pitch an idea and actually be heard. Haha

 

[PeterAlt]

Iger, who has overseen the succcessful purchase of Pixar, Marvel, and now Lucasfilm, is not going to be ousted because a movie tanks and a theme park technology doesn't work.

This board can both be hilarious and infuriating.

While the company is better off with these acquisitions, I find major flaws in all of them, except Pixar. Marvel was left as a tangled complicated mess over both studio and theme park rights that should have been straightened out as part of that deal. LucasFilm was WAY overpriced. He also overpaid for the Avatar theme park rights, as Disney still is not involved as a studio partner in the current or future films and gives free cross-promotion to Fox, with nothing in collateral.

 

[PeterAlt]

I would agree that Roy made sure the company survived, but Walt was the idea and visionary man. There wouldn't have been a Disney company without Walt.

To my surprise, I learned that Walt was never CEO. That was his brother's job. Walt's title was always "President".

 

[Darth Sidious]

While the company is better off with these acquisitions, I find major flaws in all of them, except Pixar. Marvel was left as a tangled complicated mess over both studio and theme park rights that should have been straightened out as part of that deal. LucasFilm was WAY overpriced. He also overpaid for the Avatar theme park rights, as Disney still is not involved as a studio partner in the current or future films and gives free cross-promotion to Fox, with nothing in collateral.

I agree with your thoughts on Marvel... It is still being worked out because the mess Marvel was in prior to Disney's acquisition. It isn't a huge problem but it isn't ignorable either and I don't think Disney is ignoring it. However, I think Lucasfilm was very cheaply priced. If done right SW alone can net you back most of the money through the trilogy. Not to mention the merch, the video games, the effects business, Indiana Jones, spin off movies and television shows.

 

[PeterAlt]

There are others more knowledable then me on this subject, but I don't see Diane Miller having much to do with current Disney. She started the Walt Disney Musuem which centers the life of Walt. She doesn't talk much of the new Disney. Like I stated, I read she sold all her Disney stock.

I'm not sure what happen with Roy Jr. stock but Roy Pat Disney (Roy Jr. son) is the only person I see doing anything with current Disney.

I'm not sure if her husband Ron has anything to do with things. Ron, Walt's son-in-law and former CEO for less than a year prior to Eisner, was so humiliated by his ouster that he promised never to have anything to do with the company ever again. He moved to Napa Valley and spends his time making fine wine.

 

[Darth Sidious]

To my surprise, I learned that Walt was never CEO. That was his brother's job. Walt's title was always "President".

Yup, Walt was the creative dreamer while Roy was the finance guy with business sense. They balanced each other out well and allowed for a good realistic business plan.

 

[PeterAlt]

I agree with your thoughts on Marvel... It is still being worked out because the mess Marvel was in prior to Disney's acquisition. It isn't a huge problem but it isn't ignorable either and I don't think Disney is ignoring it. However, I think Lucasfilm was very cheaply priced. If done right SW alone can net you back most of the money through the trilogy. Not to mention the merch, the video games, the effects business, Indiana Jones, spin off movies and television shows.

The $4 billion price was figured by adding everything the six movies made over a forty year period. Star Wars was very lucky to have made that much, especially the second trilogy. The worst movie of that trilogy (Phantom Menace) made the most and the best movie (Revenge of the Sith) made the least. So, these numbers happened by luck - purely. It's going to take a lot to make those same numbers back over the next forty years. They will need to make at least two new trilogies, not the planned one trilogy. It will take a lot of luck, clever marketing, and the films better be good. That's just to break even. In other words, they overpaid by at least a billion.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I haven't fully researched what happened during the last shareholder revolt, but i personally think Roy would be perfectly happy with the current company. In the last year my stock price has gone from 24 dollars a share to 54 dollars a share as of friday. Roy was a money man. I just finished reading a book where it mention that it was Roy E Disneys' goal to erase Walt from the company and give more credit to his dad as the real reason the Disney company is here today

Name the book. I'd really like to see where that was written because it sounds like horse(doodie!) to me.

 

[PhotoDave219]

There are others more knowledable then me on this subject, but I don't see Diane Miller having much to do with current Disney. She started the Walt Disney Musuem which centers the life of Walt. She doesn't talk much of the new Disney. Like I stated, I read she sold all her Disney stock.

I'm not sure what happen with Roy Jr. stock but Roy Pat Disney (Roy Jr. son) is the only person I see doing anything with current Disney.

Ive heard the same things about Diane Disney Miller. There were a lot of problems & irreconcilable damage caused by the Eisner regime with her family.

 

[PhotoDave219]

oz isnt going to be good as the first but its going to be a ton better than the original sequel walt had in mind does anyone remember the patch work girl song and dance from wonderful world of disney

No, Oz, The Great and Powerful was awful. The only positive thing I have to say about it was that its visually stunning. Crap otherwise.

 

[SirLink]

No, Oz, The Great and Powerful was awful. The only positive thing I have to say about it was that its visually stunning. Crap otherwise.

Is it as bad as Tim Burtons Alice in Wonderland - visually stunning but terrible script?

 

[Walt 1901]

Name the book. I'd really like to see where that was written because it sounds like horse(doodie!) to me.

I names the book in a previous post. It was called "Disney's World". It gave an interesting look at the company and how Walt and Roy interacted. It also talked about how Walt belittled Roy Jr.

 

[Darth Sidious]

The $4 billion price was figured by adding everything the six movies made over a forty year period. Star Wars was very lucky to have made that much, especially the second trilogy. The worst movie of that trilogy (Phantom Menace) made the most and the best movie (Revenge of the Sith) made the least. So, these numbers happened by luck - purely. It's going to take a lot to make those same numbers back over the next forty years. They will need to make at least two new trilogies, not the planned one trilogy. It will take a lot of luck, clever marketing, and the films better be good. That's just to break even. In other words, they overpaid by at least a billion.

Idk, I work in finance and most people agree it was a good deal. While they paid more than anyone else was going to, they also got a big asset. Disney is very good at distribution and easily could break the bank on SW if done right. I read somewhere that before they even make a film they are bringing in $400M annually. Obviously they have additive costs but Disney actually boasts the best costs in the movie business due to their structuring.

 

[wm49rs]

Idk, I work in finance and most people agree it was a good deal. While they paid more than anyone else was going to, they also got a big asset. Disney is very good at distribution and easily could break the bank on SW if done right. I read somewhere that before they even make a film they are bringing in $400M annually. Obviously they have additive costs but Disney actually boasts the best costs in the movie business due to their structuring.

I think believing the amount paid for SW was an absolute steal, considering not only what the movies will bring in the box office, but on BluRay/DVD and cable deals as well. To say nothing of the merchandising and the cable shows. Fairly certain those aspects were taken into account in conjunction with the box office records for six films.

 

[Redhawk]

Visually stunning but the plotline was too out of place and jumbled.

Sounds like another "Alice in Wonderland" (Tim Burton version). Or the second and third "Pirates" movies. (WAS there a 4th one?) So many films released lately under the Disney logo are just not very good. Lovely visuals and poor scripts. Even "Brave" (which surprised me by winning the Oscar) had a jumbled storyline. "Frankenweenie" (also Disney) was better written.

PIXAR was an excellent acquisition and I suppose Lucasfilm and Marvel will be good financially. But I feel there is a kind of brand dilution (or would it be brand expansion?) going on and it really troubles me. To me, pre-acquistion PIXAR films had a certain Disney feel that Star Wars and Indy Jones do not, so I could see a seamless integration into the Disney fold. However, it's still weird for me to see a Star Wars ride in a Disney park, but I realize that other people love seeing those characters and will love Marvel characters at Disney. I just DON'T and feel that Disney has enough characters past, present, and one would hope FUTURE to keep the parks growing.

I'm a shareholder and a rising stock is great, but I'd rather the money be spent to keep the parks in top shape, make films that have the potential to be classics, and build a magical vacation experience for everyone.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Is it as bad as Tim Burtons Alice in Wonderland - visually stunning but terrible script?

Never saw alice.

 

[Genie of the Lamp]

Since Oz is dominating the discussion here, I found this article from the NY Times written by Brooks Barnes about Oz and upcoming live action films currently in Disney Studios Production. The thing most important is that Oz has cost them $325 million to make and market. It would be a Tragic Kingdom if Oz revenue doesn't reach that number.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/b...-office-wizardry-of-oz.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0

 

[misterID]

I names the book in a previous post. It was called "Disney's World". It gave an interesting look at the company and how Walt and Roy interacted. It also talked about how Walt belittled Roy Jr.

I've heard about Walt referring to Roy as his "idiot nephew>' I don't know any other details about him belittling him, or if he treated him badly.

I will say this, it's ironic that Roy was the one man who fought to keep Walt's vision alive and really seemed to care about the company. I never saw any evidence that he wanted or tried to erase Walt from Disney, that just sounds silly. Of course he'd want his father to get more credit, or at least not get lost in the shadows, and that's deservedly so.

 

[Hedwig's Keeper]

As for Iger, I don't totally hate him. While I do hate what WDW is becoming and the company does not seem to be creating as much of its own IP anymore, there's no reason those things have to stay the same once he's gone.

I completely agree!! IMHO, this is my big problem with Iger's model for WDW. One of the great things about DL from the very start was the great emphasis that Walt and others placed on IP. Walt saw IP as a major foundation for developing parks. That is why he worked with persons like Karl Bacon, Ed Morgan, and Bob Gurr (who all have major amusement ride design and utility patents still used by Disney today), and whose work lead to the development of rides like Mad Tea Party, King Arthur Carrousel, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Casey Jr. Circus Train, Snow White's Scary Adventure, Dumbo the Flying Elephant, Autopia, Alice in Wonderland, Matterhorn Bobsleds, It's a Small World, Pirates of the Caribbean, Adventure Thru Inner Space, Haunted Mansion, and more. Iger needs to learn from the early lessons of Walt's success so that Disney can again realize the tremendous value found in IP for amusement ride technologies, even if they come from outside of WDI. Hell, Karl Bacon and Ed Morgan were from the company Arrow Dynamics but Walt worked with them from the start of DL and all the way up to his passing away. Unfortunately, Disney under Iger now suffers from NIH syndrome (otherwise known as "Not Invented Here" syndrome) and are missing out on big opportunities that other theme park companies are more than happy to take advantage of. It's a weak and destructive business model. I mean, WDI can keep pumping out patents for roller coasters with reclining chairs and death carousels, but these are just uncreative schematics for rides we will never see. Again, all of this is IMHO.

 

[Virtual Toad]

Hear! Hear! Iger's motto is: "Don't Aspire - Acquire".

Post of the decade. Bravo!