Well I'm sorry this has offended you. Let me change that.
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Toons in EPCOT
- Thread starter WondersOfLife
- Start date
Well I'm sorry this has offended you. Let me change that.
Yes you did, you just chose to give it the veneer of respectability by calling it an "article."
And whether you like it or not, that blog post is just another opinion, no more valid than anyone else's....
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
He told you when you first posted it. Just because someone writes something does not mean it has any authority behind it.
I completely agree with you. That was not the point, sadly. I was simply stating that that author explains it well.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The author does not explain it well. It is just a repeat of the same tired arguments based on the same wrong information.
Well, that's your opinion.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There is nothing opinion based about attendance to the park peaking twenty years ago when it was still "boring." There is nothing opinion based about Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey getting critical and popular acclaim as well as good ratings. There is nothing opinion based about museums beings a big area of activity for themed entertainment.
I completely agree with you... But there is a different opinion on how that situation is viewed. Sorry for the arguments. I'll respect your opinions, though you cannot get me to agree with you. As my opinions are just different from yours, and arguing will get us nowhere.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
I tend to dislike putting characters into places they don't fit. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't applaud creative use of them.
1) Nemo's inclusion in Living Seas was just badly done. The ride is silly (though the queue is well done), and there's a reason it's a walk on most of the time. Crush, I think, works well (though, his theater needs some TLC). Had they added the Nemo characters creatively into the existing Seabase Alpha story (including the Hydrolators), I think it could work.
2) Donald actually works in Mexico, and I don't mind him there.
3) If they were to build more rides in World Showcase that had characters, I wouldn't mind it. As long as they don't overtake the pavilion. For example, instead of closing down Snow White and scrapping it, they could have moved it (and placed it inconspicuously) in Germany. I'd love to see a Mary Poppins, Alice or Doctor Who ride in UK. List goes on. I'm all for more rides.
I don't mind Frozen in Akershus (makes more sense than Belle being the Hostess, as it is now), but as I noted, I don't think the characters should take over the pavilion. Rather, accent it. This will not be the case with Frozen. It will completely overrun the gift shop, and the pavilion, and it's turned more into a part of Fantasyland than World Showcase at that point.
I know it's coming, we all do. I'd much rather unique characters based around the story they are trying to tell than existing IP, but when used well, the existing IP can work.
1) Nemo's inclusion in Living Seas was just badly done. The ride is silly (though the queue is well done), and there's a reason it's a walk on most of the time. Crush, I think, works well (though, his theater needs some TLC). Had they added the Nemo characters creatively into the existing Seabase Alpha story (including the Hydrolators), I think it could work.
2) Donald actually works in Mexico, and I don't mind him there.
3) If they were to build more rides in World Showcase that had characters, I wouldn't mind it. As long as they don't overtake the pavilion. For example, instead of closing down Snow White and scrapping it, they could have moved it (and placed it inconspicuously) in Germany. I'd love to see a Mary Poppins, Alice or Doctor Who ride in UK. List goes on. I'm all for more rides.
I don't mind Frozen in Akershus (makes more sense than Belle being the Hostess, as it is now), but as I noted, I don't think the characters should take over the pavilion. Rather, accent it. This will not be the case with Frozen. It will completely overrun the gift shop, and the pavilion, and it's turned more into a part of Fantasyland than World Showcase at that point.
I know it's coming, we all do. I'd much rather unique characters based around the story they are trying to tell than existing IP, but when used well, the existing IP can work.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Yeah, but they also had Cranium Command with original characters. That's sortof my point, it worked. It wasn't the "Goofy pavilion", rather Goofy added to the pavilion.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I always forget about the Goofy attraction. I don't even know if I ever visited it actually, I have no memory of seeing it (I knew it was there but I don't have any memories of the attraction itself). The main draws of the Wonders of Life pavilion were Body Wars and especially Cranium Command, they overshadowed the rest of that pavilion and I have fond memories of them.
Again I don't remember doing the Goofy thing as a kid so I don't know what it's about. From watching it on youtube, it looks like a small theater of small TV's playing back clips of those old humorous educational PSA type Goofy cartoons. No offense to those who liked it, but it doesn't look like it was very interesting. And as for the Disney cartoon tie in, at the very least it was done as a very minor side attraction and not the focal point of the pavilion. Wonders of Life was also an Eisner project and wasn't opened until the last quarter of 1989, his era was when they began gradually tooning up EPCOT. At least it was kept very subdued and pushed to the sidelines at first with attractions like the Goofy one. It really began to get out of control though and i rather wish it had never started in the first place (things tend to escalate to problematic levels, even when they start small and subtle).
Again I don't remember doing the Goofy thing as a kid so I don't know what it's about. From watching it on youtube, it looks like a small theater of small TV's playing back clips of those old humorous educational PSA type Goofy cartoons. No offense to those who liked it, but it doesn't look like it was very interesting. And as for the Disney cartoon tie in, at the very least it was done as a very minor side attraction and not the focal point of the pavilion. Wonders of Life was also an Eisner project and wasn't opened until the last quarter of 1989, his era was when they began gradually tooning up EPCOT. At least it was kept very subdued and pushed to the sidelines at first with attractions like the Goofy one. It really began to get out of control though and i rather wish it had never started in the first place (things tend to escalate to problematic levels, even when they start small and subtle).
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Little Green Men
Well-Known Member
The Seas exhibits are still there- diving demonstrations, dolphin training, the manatee area, even with Nemo added, Sea Base uses the characters to communicate information like Bruce's Shark School has information panels around it, or the kiosks where Mr. Ray asks trivia. The education's not all gone, though the ride is a different story.
216bruce
Well-Known Member
Good. Glad it's not as bad as I had thought it seemed. It just really seems that the push has really went far away from information and into pure entertainment. How often are the diving demos? I haven't seen any activity in that 'tube' in years. Also, is it me or is there a LOT less aquatic life in the mega-quarium than there used to be?
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216bruce
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the compliment. I find that taking the middle, looking for compromise and trying to view WDW, and the company in general, as a "typical" guest will usually inflame both sides on the boards to some degree. The folks who are usually negative will grumble, or crab about "the good old days" and nitpick me on some meaningless detail and the "foamers" will continue to do what they do best- be blind to anything possibly being wrong- ever. If I get them both ed-off, I figure I'm on the right track.That was very well said! You honestly should deserve an official site award or something! nice!
216bruce
Well-Known Member
Good luck on getting folks to agree with this. Change is a dirty word to many on these boards.So it would! So it would! Let's get a coaster! Great idea!
You're helping me out here. Times change. People start coming to the parks for the Disney characters... That's the whole purpose of booking a Disney vacation for the average park guest. I hate to break it to you... But Disney is a profit company. Their main focus is obviously going to be on profit now. Maybe not back in the 1900s.. But now, it's all about profit.. and characters are a safe way of making profit. Business is business.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
No, but artistically tone deaf and creatively club footed change does annoy the crap out of some of us.
It was an open-house theater.. You could walk in or out whenever you wanted. You never really knew when the next show would start because it was never posted. It was an okay, pretty cute show. When I was little the pavilion was actually opened, I've only gotten to see the whole show ONCE. By pure luck. At least from the beginning. I remember somewhat enjoying it.. But wanting to go over to Cranium Command!
Really, it was just kind of.... There.. If there weren't any seats and the screens were just put up on a wall, it would have still made a nice little atmospheric addition. o-o
Change may be a dirty word, but change is reality!
216bruce
Well-Known Member
I agree totally. Has it all been 'good' change? Depends on who you ask and their personal preferences. Again, 'we' on these boards aren't the typical WDW visitors. Just looking to find a WDW discussion board probably eliminates you from 'the norm'.
Most of the changes are done with budget as the driving force in what the change is. Been that way there for a LOOOONG time. Same thing with every business. Look at the shrinking amounts of product in packages so the price doesn't rise, the lessening in quality of materials used to make just about anything. How often do you say "Well, they don't make them like they used to"? The funny thing is, for many folks, they never experienced 'used to' at the Parks.
I usually stay away from the major, park oriented, portions of this board because it's just so repetitive, predictable (especially in responses) and can get so snarky. I also just never get why if folks are so disenchanted that they continue to spend time here griping about the same thing over and over or even patronizing the company. If you don't like it- don't go, don't buy it, don't see it. Best way to show your displeasure.
I'll go back to being a cellar dweller on the boards now. Good luck, man.
Most of the changes are done with budget as the driving force in what the change is. Been that way there for a LOOOONG time. Same thing with every business. Look at the shrinking amounts of product in packages so the price doesn't rise, the lessening in quality of materials used to make just about anything. How often do you say "Well, they don't make them like they used to"? The funny thing is, for many folks, they never experienced 'used to' at the Parks.
I usually stay away from the major, park oriented, portions of this board because it's just so repetitive, predictable (especially in responses) and can get so snarky. I also just never get why if folks are so disenchanted that they continue to spend time here griping about the same thing over and over or even patronizing the company. If you don't like it- don't go, don't buy it, don't see it. Best way to show your displeasure.
I'll go back to being a cellar dweller on the boards now. Good luck, man.