Toons in EPCOT

[216bruce]

Yeah, I don't think the majority on this board represents the majority of WDW visitors.

Because THIS for so, so much on these boards with regard to the parks. The vast majority of folks that visit the parks go there with the desire to see characters, experience what in their minds is "Disney" and see what is popular and to escape from reality. Times change and, like it or not, we aren't the majority. And thanks to the OP for starting a thread on this subject that, hopefully, won't devolve into all the snarkiness of the "other" thread.

As far as characters in EPCOT go...they shouldn't be the focus of any pavilion but using them in small amounts is fine- like in The Land, character M&G's in WS, etc., is fine. You CAN have an EPCOT with it's original mission and use the characters (when they fit perfectly and in a small dose) to enhance the information presented about tech and science- just like VonDrake did on the old Sunday show or as someone who kids can see as carriers of culture or a 'message' like the old Pocahantas show at AK. Maybe Mary Poppins or Alice telling stories from the UK, etc.
If there was a robotics pavilion, having Hiro act as a presenter with a Baymax presence would be fine, as long as there was more than that. The Seas is the poster child of too much character and not enough substance. It used to be so much more than it is now with diving exhibits, more animals in the aquarium, the illusion of Sea Base Alpha, etc. It's horrible now and is all toons. There is, I'm sure, a happy medium in all of this.

 

[Fox&Hound]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I'm all about characters in EPCOT. And not because I find current EPCOT boring, but because, I enjoy seeing Disney characters when at a Disney park. To me, MK is pure Disney. It feels like Disney to me (does that make sense?). But I think AK and to a point HS are far different. There's not a lot of in your face characters. If EPCOT becomes more like MK then you'd have MK and EPCOT being cartoon heavy with HS focusing more on Star Wars and live movies (and some Pixar) and then of course AK focusing more on animals, Avatar, and Yeti's.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, even though a majority rules over our argument on this site... We've won in reality.. So.. Yea..

The park being less popular is winning?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Well, even though a majority rules over our argument on this site... We've won in reality.. So.. Yea..

Yes, mass tourism always wins. They won at Bali, they won at pristine natural beaches all over the world, they won in Europe's old cities. And even, ironically, in WDW, a place that was build for mass tourism.

EPCOT, just like Montmartre, has been turned into the theme park version of itself. Catering to the hordes that descent on it with beer, loud t-shirts, activities for the kids, oversized awful eateries. Ultimately replacing what made it great, what attracted the hordes to begin with, with a parody of itself. A version for the masses that is both watered-down and exaggerated.

There is a McDonalds in the Louvre nowadays, because the majority always wins. And the history of Mexico is told by Donald Duck nowadays, because the majority always wins.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The Seas is the poster child of too much character and not enough substance. It used to be so much more than it is now with diving exhibits, more animals in the aquarium, the illusion of Sea Base Alpha, etc. It's horrible now and is all toons. There is, I'm sure, a happy medium in all of this.

My happy medium is Universe of Energy. The story of energy a shameless Exxon-sponsored plug for fossil fuels told very originally and imposingly by dinosaurs, avant-garde Czech cinematography and smoke, mirrors and lasers. And then for the kids who wanted to learn more there was an accompanying booklet that featured toon IPs, Mickey and Goofy. At the behest of Exxon, which sought this association with Disney characters.

That works for me. So you have a central ride experience that is not just for the uneducated. (And to think EPCOT always has been pretty commercial and popularised to begin with rather than educational). For the younger kids there was a Toon comic book. Just like for the elder kids and adults there was an actual energy exhibit, pretty close to what you could find in a science museum. This way the story is presented on three levels - that Holy Grail of museum exhibits.

 

[lazyboy97o]

My happy medium is Universe of Energy. The story of energy a shameless Exxon-sponsored plug for fossil fuels told very originally and imposingly by dinosaurs, avant-garde Czech cinematography and smoke, mirrors and lasers. And then for the kids who wanted to learn more there was an accompanying booklet that featured toon IPs, Mickey and Goofy. At the behest of Exxon, which sought this association with Disney characters.

That works for me. So you have a central ride experience that is not just for the uneducated. (EPCOT always has been pretty commercial and popularised to begin with rather than educational). For the younger kids there was a Toon comic book, just like for the elder kids and adults there was an actual energy exhibit, pretty close to what you could find in a science museum. This way the story is presented on three levels.

Four year olds or nothing! (Since they are the new majority.)

 

[WondersOfLife]

Because THIS for so, so much on these boards with regard to the parks. The vast majority of folks that visit the parks go there with the desire to see characters, experience what in their minds is "Disney" and see what is popular and to escape from reality. Times change and, like it or not, we aren't the majority. And thanks to the OP for starting a thread on this subject that, hopefully, won't devolve into all the snarkiness of the "other" thread.

As far as characters in EPCOT go...they shouldn't be the focus of any pavilion but using them in small amounts is fine- like in The Land, character M&G's in WS, etc., is fine. You CAN have an EPCOT with it's original mission and use the characters (when they fit perfectly and in a small dose) to enhance the information presented about tech and science- just like VonDrake did on the old Sunday show or as someone who kids can see as carriers of culture or a 'message' like the old Pocahantas show at AK. Maybe Mary Poppins or Alice telling stories from the UK, etc.
If there was a robotics pavilion, having Hiro act as a presenter with a Baymax presence would be fine, as long as there was more than that. The Seas is the poster child of too much character and not enough substance. It used to be so much more than it is now with diving exhibits, more animals in the aquarium, the illusion of Sea Base Alpha, etc. It's horrible now and is all toons. There is, I'm sure, a happy medium in all of this.

That was very well said! You honestly should deserve an official site award or something! nice!

 

[WondersOfLife]

The park being less popular is winning?

Let me know how "less popular" it is when the shoehorned Frozen attraction makes its way to Norway...

(Which I do not approve of Disney adding... but it'll be a good example of how much of an impact Disney characters make on attendance levels.)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let me know how "less popular" it is when the shoehorned Frozen attraction makes its way to Norway...

(Which I do not approve of Disney adding... but it'll be a good example of how much of an impact Disney characters make on attendance levels.)

You're not exactly making a powerful creative argument. Adding a huge roller coaster could also bring crowds.

 

[wm49rs]

You're not exactly making a powerful creative argument. Adding a huge roller coaster could also bring crowds.

As would adding Frozen to any of the other parks, such as they did with DHS over the summer....

 

[The Empress Lilly]

You're not exactly making a powerful creative argument. Adding a huge roller coaster could also bring crowds.

As would a casino with a Hooters bar. Doesn't mean EPCOT should build that, even if a majority of Florida tourists would flock to that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As would a casino with a Hooters bar. Doesn't mean EPCOT should build that, even if a majority of Florida tourists would flock to that.

A Hooters would be pushing the bounds of Disney's creativity, something new and never before seen at a Disney park. You're not even considering the sort of amazing backstory that Walt Disney Imagineering could create and the details they would use to bring this story to life. Maybe this Hooters was started by a foreign tech genius.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

A Hooters would be pushing the bounds of Disney's creativity, something new and never before seen at a Disney park. You're not even considering the sort of amazing backstory that Walt Disney Imagineering could create and the details they would use to bring this story to life. Maybe this Hooters was started by a foreign tech genius.

 

[WondersOfLife]

You're not exactly making a powerful creative argument. Adding a huge roller coaster could also bring crowds.

So it would! So it would! Let's get a coaster! Great idea!

You're helping me out here. Times change. People start coming to the parks for the Disney characters... That's the whole purpose of booking a Disney vacation for the average park guest. I hate to break it to you... But Disney is a profit company. Their main focus is obviously going to be on profit now. Maybe not back in the 1900s.. But now, it's all about profit.. and characters are a safe way of making profit. Business is business.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So it would! So it would! Let's get a coaster! Great idea!

You're helping me out here. Times change. People start coming to the parks for the Disney characters... That's the whole purpose of booking a Disney vacation for the average park guest. I hate to break it to you... But Disney is a profit company. Their main focus is obviously going to be on profit now. Maybe not back in the 1900s.. But now, it's all about profit.. and characters are a safe way of making profit. Business is business.

This reminds me of a favorite quote of mine from War and Peace.
"speaking of 'our day' in the same strain as all narrow-minded people speak of it, who suppose that they have discovered and properly value the peculiarities of our time, and the character of people changes with the times"
You're entire argument is change for the sake of changing something someone else created in an insecure attempt to assert your creativity.

 

[WondersOfLife]

This reminds me of a favorite quote of mine from War and Peace.
"speaking of 'our day' in the same strain as all narrow-minded people speak of it, who suppose that they have discovered and properly value the peculiarities of our time, and the character of people changes with the times"
You're entire argument is change for the sake of changing something someone else created in an insecure attempt to assert your creativity.

So my original post was about adding BH6 in the park because it fits well.
I'm just adding on to why they should add BH6 in the park. I'm sorry you don't agree with the obvious facts.


http://www.worldofwalt.com/new-business-model-epcot-frozen.html
^^^ This Very well put personal opinion post* explains the situation better than I can.

 

[Tim Lohr]

I think the only thing that currenly fits the theme of Future World, or is in line with the original Epcot is Test Track, it's the newest pavillion and there are no cartoon characters there

 

[wm49rs]

So my original post was about adding BH6 in the park because it fits well.
I'm just adding on to why they should add BH6 in the park. I'm sorry you don't agree with the obvious facts.


http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/new-epcot-business-model-article.893386/
^^^ This article explains the situation better than I can.

Again, not an article, an opine from a personal website. One that just happens to agree with your particular point of view....

 

[lazyboy97o]

So my original post was about adding BH6 in the park because it fits well.
I'm just adding on to why they should add BH6 in the park. I'm sorry you don't agree with the obvious facts.


http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/new-epcot-business-model-article.893386/
^^^ This article explains the situation better than I can.

That is not an article, just a fan site blog post from people who are buying into the fifth gate nonsense. That "article" also pushes the LIE that the park is more popular now. Riddle me this, if the themes of EPCOT Center are no longer relevant, then how was Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey so successful?

 

[WondersOfLife]

Again, not an article, an opine from a personal website. One that just happens to agree with your particular point of view....

Well that's nice. Didn't know that, buddy.

Sadly, that's not the point... and your argument has nothing to do with that point.