Tom Fitzerald présente la rénovation de Phantom Manor

britain

Well-Known Member
Alrighty then... looking on the bright side here:

  • More Vincent Price! Excellent!
  • Odd 'corner mirror' in pre-show room replaced with painting more clearly establishing our two main characters.
  • Awesome dilapidated wallpaper brought back to life effect!
  • Stretching room portraits that are an improvement all around: Better painting style (I'm looking at you old cartoon-eyes skeleton!), better storytelling (previously: "why were all these bad things happening to that girl?") and wow, disappearing Melanie!
  • I think it was an empty noose the Phantom offers us at the top of the stretching room. Good call.
  • Couldn't see much of hallway and loading area
  • Glad Melanie was removed from alcove and replaced with suit of armor. She looked too doll like at that close proximity before.
  • 'Here Comes the Bride' with a more western honky-tonk piano, very appropriate
  • Sad to see supernatural outdoor weather removed from Leota's scene, but I'm guessing that's to better hide her wires?
  • Ballroom - not sure why audio was replaced - maybe it was deemed to sound too climactic when hey, the ride's not over yet. Better restaging of Melanie and the Phantom - he's not a party crasher, it's his home!
  • That video didn't / couldn't show effects at the vanity.
  • Seems like the original 'decending' music returns as we go subterranean, not too many changes here (I was hoping that one skeleton in a white dress was changed since it looked too much like it was a bride, complicating the story, couldn't tell in this video)
  • Generally better lighting on the ghostly citizens I think.
  • My number one wish was granted: Consistency in the Phantom's design! it may have been 'cool' to have the Phantom in a decomposing form at the end of this scene, but we've already seen him as a dark skeleton. How does he get ears back?! And the ragged cloak never looked convincing. Just, yes, show the Phantom as established again, this time inviting you for a hanging and a coffin.
  • Crystal skeleton Melanie has been replaced with suitor tombs including a proposing hand - not as spectacular, but it's in keeping with the return to Boot Hill.
  • Can't make out how the reflections look, but anything should be better than clones of the Phantom on top of every person's vehicle.
  • No little Leota Melanie huh? I guess a miniature ghost like that doesn't quite make sense anyway. It's more acceptable in the 'anything goes' Haunted Mansion, but I suppose just hearing her voice works fine.

Generally a success, in my opinion.
 

CraftyFox

Well-Known Member
The lack of the original score is disappointing, but the new animatronics in the Western Town scene are a vast improvement to what used to be there. The stretching room disappearing effect was done a lot better than I was expecting
 

Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
Melanie is asking you to marry her at the end in a near psychopath tone and appears in your doom buggy

As a native french speaker, I found the new approach where they replaced the deep voice of Gerard Chevalier (original french voice of the Phantom) by a french Vincent Price sound a like quite odd. The way the speech alternates between english and french can lead to some confusion as you need to understand both to get the full story.
 

theodau

New Member
In the Parks
Yes
I have mixed feelings about this refurb...
Some effects are really cool: foyer, stretching room. But why did they change the ballroom music? The HM soundtrack doesn't fit well at all!
 

britain

Well-Known Member
Melanie is asking you to marry her at the end in a near psychopath tone and appears in your doom buggy

As a native french speaker, I found the new approach where they replaced the deep voice of Gerard Chevalier (original french voice of the Phantom) by a french Vincent Price sound a like quite odd. The way the speech alternates between english and french can lead to some confusion as you need to understand both to get the full story.

It sort of feels like there's now two ghost hosts welcoming you and having a conversation together!
 

Absimilliard

Well-Known Member
It sort of feels like there's now two ghost hosts welcoming you and having a conversation together!

Great way to put it! Having two distinct characters like Disney usually does for those situations would have made more sense. Perhaps keeping the original french narrator as a tour guide and Vincent Price as the Phantom could have worked better?
 

KIGhostGuy

Active Member
Melanie is asking you to marry her at the end in a near psychopath tone and appears in your doom buggy

As a native french speaker, I found the new approach where they replaced the deep voice of Gerard Chevalier (original french voice of the Phantom) by a french Vincent Price sound a like quite odd. The way the speech alternates between english and french can lead to some confusion as you need to understand both to get the full story.
Do you mind giving a possible translation to the French parts of the current spiel?
 

AndyS2992

Well-Known Member
I think it's great. Being closed so long I was expecting a few more modern effects here and there but I'm pretty pleased over all though the story seems a little muddled. Is the Phantom killing the grooms, or the Bride or both or what? Melanie was very much the unknowing victim in the original, now she appears to be in on the murders. So a tragic story becomes one of a weird father and daughter serial killing team lol
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Alrighty then... looking on the bright side here:

  • More Vincent Price! Excellent!
  • Odd 'corner mirror' in pre-show room replaced with painting more clearly establishing our two main characters.
  • Awesome dilapidated wallpaper brought back to life effect!
  • Stretching room portraits that are an improvement all around: Better painting style (I'm looking at you old cartoon-eyes skeleton!), better storytelling (previously: "why were all these bad things happening to that girl?") and wow, disappearing Melanie!
  • I think it was an empty noose the Phantom offers us at the top of the stretching room. Good call.
  • Couldn't see much of hallway and loading area
  • Glad Melanie was removed from alcove and replaced with suit of armor. She looked too doll like at that close proximity before.
  • 'Here Comes the Bride' with a more western honky-tonk piano, very appropriate
  • Sad to see supernatural outdoor weather removed from Leota's scene, but I'm guessing that's to better hide her wires?
  • Ballroom - not sure why audio was replaced - maybe it was deemed to sound too climactic when hey, the ride's not over yet. Better restaging of Melanie and the Phantom - he's not a party crasher, it's his home!
  • That video didn't / couldn't show effects at the vanity.
  • Seems like the original 'decending' music returns as we go subterranean, not too many changes here (I was hoping that one skeleton in a white dress was changed since it looked too much like it was a bride, complicating the story, couldn't tell in this video)
  • Generally better lighting on the ghostly citizens I think.
  • My number one wish was granted: Consistency in the Phantom's design! it may have been 'cool' to have the Phantom in a decomposing form at the end of this scene, but we've already seen him as a dark skeleton. How does he get ears back?! And the ragged cloak never looked convincing. Just, yes, show the Phantom as established again, this time inviting you for a hanging and a coffin.
  • Crystal skeleton Melanie has been replaced with suitor tombs including a proposing hand - not as spectacular, but it's in keeping with the return to Boot Hill.
  • Can't make out how the reflections look, but anything should be better than clones of the Phantom on top of every person's vehicle.
  • No little Leota Melanie huh? I guess a miniature ghost like that doesn't quite make sense anyway. It's more acceptable in the 'anything goes' Haunted Mansion, but I suppose just hearing her voice works fine.

Generally a success, in my opinion.
I find I disagree with almost all of this, to varying degrees, which I break down here;

  • I was thrilled to hear Vincent Price's narration would be returning, but it feels weird the way they've spliced it together with some new dialogue from an obvious soundalike. The back and forth between english and french is of course basically a necessary evil, but it sort of feels like the important storytelling the narration did got the shrift in favor of paying (deserved) homage to Vincent. It feels like the narration tells you less than before, but now in two languages. Not entirely a plus.
  • I do agree that the corner mirror felt odd, and I expected they would see that as a place to do something new within the attraction, but the painting in the corner almost feels even odder than the mirror - a bulky, rectangular portrait shoved high up in the top of the room. Not the mention that the painting itself feels like the setup to an eventual punchline - it doesn't really read as a real portrait in either the before or after version. The effect it feeds of the room transforming from old to new is nice, but it's still plenty awkward.
  • I feel like I'll have to see the effect of the room changing in person before I can really say - I want to love it, but the bright green color and obvious blacklighting (everyone's t-shirts start glowing blue) seem at odds with the style of such a house in its heyday. I thought this would be projection mapping - I'm pleased to see they took a more practical route, so I'm inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure I can yet say this bit is a home run.
  • I think I may have preferred the old painting style - the new ones definitely feel like they were conjured up on someone's iPad instead of in oil paint (and Melanie's face is literally copied and pasted from portrait to portrait), but the concept and effect seem pretty solid in execution. Again glad that it's not a projection effect, as it appeared it would be from the recent presentation. Not a fan of the story change that offers Melanie all these suitors meeting their Haunted Mansion-like ends, though. The earlier version felt more metaphorical and more foreboding as a result.
  • Do not like the Phantom offering an empty noose. The brilliance before was that it made a powerful suggestion of the story and was scary while also riffing off of the body in the stretch room in the other Mansions - you expected to see a long-dead hanging skeleton and instead saw someone being hanged in front of you (Right now? Back in time? Murky, but evocative) by the Phantom. I understand with the new story line the need to do away with the body, but its absence makes The Phantom seem much less threatening in that moment. The stakes were also raised originally by the idea that he was hanging Melanie's only suitor - now with there being four of them they seem like a punchline rather than actual characters playing an important role in this story.
  • The Hallway and Load Area seem basically fine -- I personally don't love the idea of the new portrait telling so clearly that Henry Ravenswood is the Phantom (I always loved the beautiful, subjective mystery around the identity of the Phantom . . . how often do scary things get scarier by learning more about them??), but the new paintings are well done and the load area looks nicely resolved. I had hoped the "transformation" effect would be restored here in this refurb, but I can see why they moved that notion to the foyer. It's fine.
  • The Suit of Armor seems like such a waste of a prominent spot. Melanie wasn't perfect here, for reasons you mention and more, and now with her in the Load just before and the Hall just after I can see why keeping her here was overkill, but the suit of armor feels "featured" now in a way that it doesn't live up to. Something more interesting should have gone here.
  • On paper the Wedding March fits, but the music swept through the ride so perfectly before that I can't call this new bit an improvement. It messes with the tone more than it improves it.
  • I think the weather disappeared a good amount of time before this refurb, though I also lamented its loss. I suspected it might not come back since it would ruin any new Floating Leota effect re: wires, but it seems she's still on a table that's levitating unlike her stateside counterparts. The Leota head itself does look more handsome than ever, thank goodness, she's always looked off until now. I call that a net-gain.
  • The new staging of Melanie and the Phantom in the Ballroom is an example of what I think is clearer storytelling at the expense of better storytelling. While it's true now, officially, that this is the Phantom's house, the drama in the staging before of seeing Melanie first on the stairs surveying the Ballroom, then seeing the Ghosts cavorting through the scene, then seeing the Phantom revealed high up by the lightning was, to me, vastly superior over what's happening now. It was another place where staging of the corresponding scene in The Haunted Mansion was subverted to wonderful theatrical effect, and even more than that it used the expanse of the space to tell that story. Now the story of Melanie and the Phantom in that scene is told in one tiny alcove on the balcony - you could fit that storytelling in the knight's alcove, if you wanted, not that you should. And in fact, they show basically that exact same image a moment after the knight in the Endless Hallway, where the Phantom has been added right behind Melanie (it appears an edit was made to this scene where we lost the gag of her candelabra staying put while she materializes around it - it now seems to disappear with her and the phantom, which I think is a small shame. Now when she's not there the hallway is just an empty hallway, instead of one with a spooky candelabrum floating myseriously . . . I digress)
  • The effect of The Phantom's reflection in the Vanity might be clever if 1) We hadn't seen the image of him lurking right behind her 3 times already in the attraction by this point, and 2) It wasn't so clear how it was done (it doesn't appear to be brilliantly masked out). I'll give them that the scene before could not really be considered a special effect, and now there is one where there wasn't before, but I think the reference to "All Is Vanity" that was there before, while merely more illustrative, was creepier and more sophisticated than what we have now. The current scene doesn't feel like new information, it just feels like an ok trick. The old scene wasn't a trick, but it was foreboding as heck, and gave you a moment to really notice where Melanie was at this point in the story ("Does she suddenly seem older . . .?")
  • I also couldn't tell from the video, but I agree that redressing the skeleton in the catacombs that appeared to be wearing a wedding gown would be a plus - it never read to me that it was meant to be Melanie, but once I noticed the potential I'd wished they'd either back off or commit. I always thought it was a stronger idea that we suspect what's happened (or soon to happen?) to Melanie when we see the Phantom by the open grave outside the Boudoir, but have no concrete evidence until we enter the wine cellar where her fate was ultimately revealed. Which is all to say, I hope they changed this skeleton's outfit, she just seemed like a red-herring. It looks like they might have.
  • Hard to say from video, but I'm willing to accept the new lightning in Thunder Mesa. It seems more dramatic on the ghosts and less dramatic on the scene, which wouldn't have been my choice but it's fine. I had thought this would be the scene where it was most likely we'd see a serious upgrade - I always felt a little but like this was where the ride went "off the rails", but that was also part of what made it spooky - it felt like you'd really gone into uncharted territory, and you didn't know what would happen next. I thought they might hit this scene up with some projection mapping to really drive home the otherworldly Earthquake, but it seems maybe more subdued than before. The figures appear to be in good shape, though.
  • I had actually seriously hoped against your number one wish - I can't say I entirely understood why the Phantom suddenly looked different in this scene (though I have a number of theories), but boy did it make me THINK about it. That, to me, was one of the bravest, weirdest, creepiest mysteries in the whole ride, and I had hoped they'd have the nerve to turn the heat up on it instead of off. Barbossa in DLP's Pirates suggested to me that we could see some sort of massive, spooky transformation of this figure before our eyes that made it more of a WOW and less of a for the big finale, but instead they backed off it altogether. Now it just feels like a repeat of the figure after the Boudoir - "I am the Phantom! Here's an open grave. Care to join me?" *Spooky laugh, spooky laugh*. Also, the red lights in the Phantom's eye sockets across the board look laaaame as heck to me. I've never thought the Phantom animatronic's Skulls ever looked quite as creepy as they should, which is maybe why I appreciated the Finale Phantom, since he spooked you out by doing a 180 and proving you don't know WHAT he is. You're right about the cloak though, he was never 100%. I was hoping they'd really "go there" with him this time. Ah, well.
  • Disappointed in the loss of "Crystal Melanie" - again, I get that with the new story beats it didn't make sense, but being that I thought the old story beats were better I can't help but lament. This crypt could gave easily been put in the space across from the unload, or shortly after where you could take a peek on your way out, and been just as good. "Crystal Melanie" was another freaky, surreal, supernatural "" moment like you don't get from the regular Haunted Mansion, and I'd hoped that this refurb was gonna be about doubling-down on those sorts of differences instead of sanding off the edges.
  • I saw another video and a photo where the effect was clearer - Melanie now appears in the Doombuggy in the style of the traditional HitchHiking Ghost effect, but only one buggy at a time, and asks those guests if they'll marry her before vanishing and reappearing in the next buggy. I actually enjoyed the old Phantom effect - especially that it was over the Doombuggy where you couldn't look next to you and see that there's clearly nothing there in the car with you - another interesting subversion of the original Mansion experience - but did always wonder how there were suddenly multiple Phantoms at once, and only ever once saw his "vanishing" effect working in full, sparkly order. If they'd simply outfitted the old effect with the new trappings of the character only hitting one car at a time and maybe improved the vanish in look and reliability, I think I would have preferred that over this new, "stir-crazy, cabin-fever" Melanie . . . but I'll give them that she looks spooky as heck, and if I have to take this new effect then I like that about it.
  • I'm guessing Little Melanie's gone because they just wrapped up her story in the mirrors, but that's yet another reason I preferred the story beats from before. It seems obvious to me that if you're going to take away an effect like this then you should replace it with something else, and if it no longer works in your story then either change the story or find something that does fit. I hate that the guests lost a popular moment because the people running the show didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't figure out a creative way to keep something interesting happening there as your kiss goodbye. If your new story means losing things that were better in the old story, then maybe your new story isn't as good. Even if it's "clearer" and "makes more sense". Guests want an exciting experience, and if you can conjure up a story that feeds that then great, but if the experience takes a hit in favor of the story then I think you've crossed the wrong line in this medium. That's not actually what themed entertainment is about at its core. Phantom Manor is one of the best examples of that - it didn't become a cult classic that's topped the charts at DLP for 3 decades because the story was so clear, it's because the experience was so rich that it made you want to know the story. If choosing now to tell that story means you have to get rid of what made that experience rich to begin with, then I think you're dying on the wrong hill.
To add on to all of this, I'll say that I'm glad it appears that for the most part everything in the new version of the ride is executed on a high level, and that the finishes on much of the attraction appear to be better than they've ever been. I do think overall that I feel personally like the spirit of the attraction has been lost more than it's been regained - it seems to me like too many elements are an example of "overthinking it". But I won't pretend that serious work didn't go into this version of the attraction, and that for all my misgivings about choices that were made, it appears to have been pretty beautifully realized. I'm glad to see that level of care go into the attraction. If I had the choice, I would cherry-pick some of these new bits, drop them into the older version of the attraction and leave the rest of the story mostly the heck alone, and then make the whole thing sparkle the way they have here . . . but we'll have to see. Maybe this one will grow on me. I can't help but want to see it in person, anyway. It pained me to have missed it when I was in DLP two weeks ago, so I'm glad the ride is back online.

EDITED To Add: This is in no way meant to be a takedown of your post or your points, just a line-by-line walkthrough of the changes as seen from a differing perspective. I trust you know this, @britain, but it couldn't hurt to be clear!
 
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CraftyFox

Well-Known Member
I find I disagree with almost all of this, to varying degrees, which I break down here;

  • I was thrilled to hear Vincent Price's narration would be returning, but it feels weird the way they've spliced it together with some new dialogue from an obvious soundalike. The back and forth between english and french is of course basically a necessary evil, but it sort of feels like the important storytelling the narration did got the shrift in favor of paying (deserved) homage to Vincent. It feels like the narration tells you less than before, but now in two languages. Not entirely a plus.
  • I do agree that the corner mirror felt odd, and I expected they would see that as a place to do something new within the attraction, but the painting in the corner almost feels even odder than the mirror - a bulky, rectangular portrait shoved high up in the top of the room. Not the mention that the painting itself feels like the setup to an eventual punchline - it doesn't really read as a real portrait in either the before or after version. The effect it feeds of the room transforming from old to new is nice, but it's still plenty awkward.
  • I feel like I'll have to see the effect of the room changing in person before I can really say - I want to love it, but the bright green color and obvious blacklighting (everyone's t-shirts start glowing blue) seem at odds with the style of such a house in its heyday. I thought this would be projection mapping - I'm pleased to see they took a more practical route, so I'm inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure I can yet say this bit is a home run.
  • I think I may have preferred the old painting style - the new ones definitely feel like they were conjured up on someone's iPad instead of in oil paint (and Melanie's face is literally copied and pasted from portrait to portrait), but the concept and effect seem pretty solid in execution. Again glad that it's not a projection effect, as it appeared it would be from the recent presentation. Not a fan of the story change that offers Melanie all these suitors meeting their Haunted Mansion-like ends, though. The earlier version felt more metaphorical and more foreboding as a result.
  • Do not like the Phantom offering an empty noose. The brilliance before was that it made a powerful suggestion of the story and was scary while also riffing off of the body in the stretch room in the other Mansions - you expected to see a long-dead hanging skeleton and instead saw someone being hanged in front of you (Right now? Back in time? Murky, but evocative) by the Phantom. I understand with the new story line the need to do away with the body, but its absence makes The Phantom seem much less threatening in that moment. The stakes were also raised originally by the idea that he was hanging Melanie's only suitor - now with there being four of them they seem like a punchline rather than actual characters playing an important role in this story.
  • The Hallway and Load Area seem basically fine -- I personally don't love the idea of the new portrait telling so clearly that Henry Ravenswood is the Phantom (I always loved the beautiful, subjective mystery around the identity of the Phantom . . . how often do scary things get scarier by learning more about them??), but the new paintings are well done and the load area looks nicely resolved. I had hoped the "transformation" effect would be restored here in this refurb, but I can see why they moved that notion to the foyer. It's fine.
  • The Suit of Armor seems like such a waste of a prominent spot. Melanie wasn't perfect here, for reasons you mention and more, and now with her in the Load just before and the Hall just after I can see why keeping her here was overkill, but the suit of armor feels "featured" now in a way that it doesn't live up to. Something more interesting should have gone here.
  • On paper the Wedding March fits, but the music swept through the ride so perfectly before that I can't call this new bit an improvement. It messes with the tone more than it improves it.
  • I think the weather disappeared a good amount of time before this refurb, though I also lamented its loss. I suspected it might not come back since it would ruin any new Floating Leota effect re: wires, but it seems she's still on a table that's levitating unlike her stateside counterparts. The Leota head itself does look more handsome than ever, thank goodness, she's always looked off until now. I call that a net-gain.
  • The new staging of Melanie and the Phantom in the Ballroom is an example of what I think is clearer storytelling at the expense of better storytelling. While it's true now, officially, that this is the Phantom's house, the drama in the staging before of seeing Melanie first on the stairs surveying the Ballroom, then seeing the Ghosts cavorting through the scene, then seeing the Phantom revealed high up by the lightning was, to me, vastly superior over what's happening now. It was another place where staging of the corresponding scene in The Haunted Mansion was subverted to wonderful theatrical effect, and even more than that it used the expanse of the space to tell that story. Now the story of Melanie and the Phantom in that scene is told in one tiny alcove on the balcony - you could fit that storytelling in the knight's alcove, if you wanted, not that you should. And in fact, they show basically that exact same image a moment after the knight in the Endless Hallway, where the Phantom has been added right behind Melanie (it appears an edit was made to this scene where we lost the gag of her candelabra staying put while she materializes around it - it now seems to disappear with her and the phantom, which I think is a small shame. Now when she's not there the hallway is just an empty hallway, instead of one with a spooky candelabrum floating myseriously . . . I digress)
  • The effect of The Phantom's reflection in the Vanity might be clever if 1) We hadn't seen the image of him lurking right behind her 3 times already in the attraction by this point, and 2) It wasn't so clear how it was done (it doesn't appear to be brilliantly masked out). I'll give them that the scene before could not really be considered a special effect, and now there is one where there wasn't before, but I think the reference to "All Is Vanity" that was there before, while merely more illustrative, was creepier and more sophisticated than what we have now. The current scene doesn't feel like new information, it just feels like an ok trick. The old scene wasn't a trick, but it was foreboding as heck, and gave you a moment to really notice where Melanie was at this point in the story ("Does she suddenly seem older . . .?")
  • I also couldn't tell from the video, but I agree that redressing the skeleton in the catacombs that appeared to be wearing a wedding gown would be a plus - it never read to me that it was meant to be Melanie, but once I noticed the potential I'd wished they'd either back off or commit. I always thought it was a stronger idea that we suspect what's happened (or soon to happen?) to Melanie when we see the Phantom by the open grave outside the Boudoir, but have no concrete evidence until we enter the wine cellar where her fate was ultimately revealed. Which is all to say, I hope they changed this skeleton's outfit, she just seemed like a red-herring. It looks like they might have.
  • Hard to say from video, but I'm willing to accept the new lightning in Thunder Mesa. It seems more dramatic on the ghosts and less dramatic on the scene, which wouldn't have been my choice but it's fine. I had thought this would be the scene where it was most likely we'd see a serious upgrade - I always felt a little but like this was where the ride went "off the rails", but that was also part of what made it spooky - it felt like you'd really gone into uncharted territory, and you didn't know what would happen next. I thought they might hit this scene up with some projection mapping to really drive home the otherworldly Earthquake, but it seems maybe more subdued than before. The figures appear to be in good shape, though.
  • I had actually seriously hoped against your number one wish - I can't say I entirely understood why the Phantom suddenly looked different in this scene (though I have a number of theories), but boy did it make me THINK about it. That, to me, was one of the bravest, weirdest, creepiest mysteries in the whole ride, and I had hoped they'd have the nerve to turn the heat up on it instead of off. Barbossa in DLP's Pirates suggested to me that we could see some sort of massive, spooky transformation of this figure before our eyes that made it more of a WOW and less of a *** for the big finale, but instead they backed off it altogether. Now it just feels like a repeat of the figure after the Boudoir - "I am the Phantom! Here's an open grave. Care to join me?" *Spooky laugh, spooky laugh*. Also, the red lights in the Phantom's eye sockets across the board look laaaame as heck to me. I've never thought the Phantom animatronic's Skulls ever looked quite as creepy as they should, which is maybe why I appreciated the Finale Phantom, since he spooked you out by doing a 180 and proving you don't know WHAT he is. You're right about the cloak though, he was never 100%. I was hoping they'd really "go there" with him this time. Ah, well.
  • Disappointed in the loss of "Crystal Melanie" - again, I get that with the new story beats it didn't make sense, but being that I thought the old story beats were better I can't help but lament. This crypt could gave easily been put in the space across from the unload, or shortly after where you could take a peek on your way out, and been just as good. "Crystal Melanie" was another freaky, surreal, supernatural "***" moment like you don't get from the regular Haunted Mansion, and I'd hoped that this refurb was gonna be about doubling-down on those sorts of differences instead of sanding off the edges.
  • I saw another video and a photo where the effect was clearer - Melanie now appears in the Doombuggy in the style of the traditional HitchHiking Ghost effect, but only one buggy at a time, and asks those guests if they'll marry her before vanishing and reappearing in the next buggy. I actually enjoyed the old Phantom effect - especially that it was over the Doombuggy where you couldn't look next to you and see that there's clearly nothing there in the car with you - another interesting subversion of the original Mansion experience - but did always wonder how there were suddenly multiple Phantoms at once, and only ever once saw his "vanishing" effect working in full, sparkly order. If they'd simply outfitted the old effect with the new trappings of the character only hitting one car at a time and maybe improved the vanish in look and reliability, I think I would have preferred that over this new, "stir-crazy, cabin-fever" Melanie . . . but I'll give them that she looks spooky as heck, and if I have to take this new effect then I like that about it.
  • I'm guessing Little Melanie's gone because they just wrapped up her story in the mirrors, but that's yet another reason I preferred the story beats from before. It seems obvious to me that if you're going to take away an effect like this then you should replace it with something else, and if it no longer works in your story then either change the story or find something that does fit. I hate that the guests lost a popular moment because the people running the show didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't figure out a creative way to keep something interesting happening there as your kiss goodbye. If your new story means losing things that were better in the old story, then maybe your new story isn't as good. Even if it's "clearer" and "makes more sense". Guests want an exciting experience, and if you can conjure up a story that feeds that then great, but if the experience takes a hit in favor of the story then I think you've crossed the wrong line in this medium. That's not actually what themed entertainment is about at its core. Phantom Manor is one of the best examples of that - it didn't become a cult classic that's topped the charts at DLP for 3 decades because the story was so clear, it's because the experience was so rich that it made you want to know the story. If choosing now to tell that story means you have to get rid of what made that experience rich to begin with, then I think you're dying on the wrong hill.
To add on to all of this, I'll say that I'm glad it appears that for the most part everything in the new version of the ride is executed on a high level, and that the finishes on much of the attraction appear to be better than they've ever been. I do think overall that I feel personally like the spirit of the attraction has been lost more than it's been regained - it seems to me like too many elements are an example of "overthinking it". But I won't pretend that serious work didn't go into this version of the attraction, and that for all my misgivings about choices that were made, it appears to have been pretty beautifully realized. I'm glad to see that level of care go into the attraction. If I had the choice, I would cherry-pick some of these new bits, drop them into the older version of the attraction and leave the rest of the story mostly the heck alone, and then make the whole thing sparkle the way they have here . . . but we'll have to see. Maybe this one will grow on me. I can't help but want to see it in person, anyway. It pained me to have missed it when I was in DLP two weeks ago, so I'm glad the ride is back online.

While this update is definitely a net plus in general, on a second watch, I do agree that the lime green wallpaper in the post “transformation” foyer looks very odd. The colors are extremely bright and are far from the mish-mash of Victorian and High Gothic styles we currently have inside the mansion.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
While this update is definitely a net plus in general, on a second watch, I do agree that the lime green wallpaper in the post “transformation” foyer looks very odd. The colors are extremely bright and are far from the mish-mash of Victorian and High Gothic styles we currently have inside the mansion.
At first glance it took my breath away, and I had to rewind to really pay attention and see how dramatic the change was - it was more dramatic than I'd realized - but it feels like one of those things where what they were going for is a little cooler than the final product. That it changes so drastically is impressive, but what it changes into doesn't quite hit precisely the right note.
 

britain

Well-Known Member
I find I disagree with almost all of this, to varying degrees, which I break down here;

  • I was thrilled to hear Vincent Price's narration would be returning, but it feels weird the way they've spliced it together with some new dialogue from an obvious soundalike. The back and forth between english and french is of course basically a necessary evil, but it sort of feels like the important storytelling the narration did got the shrift in favor of paying (deserved) homage to Vincent. It feels like the narration tells you less than before, but now in two languages. Not entirely a plus.
  • I do agree that the corner mirror felt odd, and I expected they would see that as a place to do something new within the attraction, but the painting in the corner almost feels even odder than the mirror - a bulky, rectangular portrait shoved high up in the top of the room. Not the mention that the painting itself feels like the setup to an eventual punchline - it doesn't really read as a real portrait in either the before or after version. The effect it feeds of the room transforming from old to new is nice, but it's still plenty awkward.
  • I feel like I'll have to see the effect of the room changing in person before I can really say - I want to love it, but the bright green color and obvious blacklighting (everyone's t-shirts start glowing blue) seem at odds with the style of such a house in its heyday. I thought this would be projection mapping - I'm pleased to see they took a more practical route, so I'm inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure I can yet say this bit is a home run.
  • I think I may have preferred the old painting style - the new ones definitely feel like they were conjured up on someone's iPad instead of in oil paint (and Melanie's face is literally copied and pasted from portrait to portrait), but the concept and effect seem pretty solid in execution. Again glad that it's not a projection effect, as it appeared it would be from the recent presentation. Not a fan of the story change that offers Melanie all these suitors meeting their Haunted Mansion-like ends, though. The earlier version felt more metaphorical and more foreboding as a result.
  • Do not like the Phantom offering an empty noose. The brilliance before was that it made a powerful suggestion of the story and was scary while also riffing off of the body in the stretch room in the other Mansions - you expected to see a long-dead hanging skeleton and instead saw someone being hanged in front of you (Right now? Back in time? Murky, but evocative) by the Phantom. I understand with the new story line the need to do away with the body, but its absence makes The Phantom seem much less threatening in that moment. The stakes were also raised originally by the idea that he was hanging Melanie's only suitor - now with there being four of them they seem like a punchline rather than actual characters playing an important role in this story.
  • The Hallway and Load Area seem basically fine -- I personally don't love the idea of the new portrait telling so clearly that Henry Ravenswood is the Phantom (I always loved the beautiful, subjective mystery around the identity of the Phantom . . . how often do scary things get scarier by learning more about them??), but the new paintings are well done and the load area looks nicely resolved. I had hoped the "transformation" effect would be restored here in this refurb, but I can see why they moved that notion to the foyer. It's fine.
  • The Suit of Armor seems like such a waste of a prominent spot. Melanie wasn't perfect here, for reasons you mention and more, and now with her in the Load just before and the Hall just after I can see why keeping her here was overkill, but the suit of armor feels "featured" now in a way that it doesn't live up to. Something more interesting should have gone here.
  • On paper the Wedding March fits, but the music swept through the ride so perfectly before that I can't call this new bit an improvement. It messes with the tone more than it improves it.
  • I think the weather disappeared a good amount of time before this refurb, though I also lamented its loss. I suspected it might not come back since it would ruin any new Floating Leota effect re: wires, but it seems she's still on a table that's levitating unlike her stateside counterparts. The Leota head itself does look more handsome than ever, thank goodness, she's always looked off until now. I call that a net-gain.
  • The new staging of Melanie and the Phantom in the Ballroom is an example of what I think is clearer storytelling at the expense of better storytelling. While it's true now, officially, that this is the Phantom's house, the drama in the staging before of seeing Melanie first on the stairs surveying the Ballroom, then seeing the Ghosts cavorting through the scene, then seeing the Phantom revealed high up by the lightning was, to me, vastly superior over what's happening now. It was another place where staging of the corresponding scene in The Haunted Mansion was subverted to wonderful theatrical effect, and even more than that it used the expanse of the space to tell that story. Now the story of Melanie and the Phantom in that scene is told in one tiny alcove on the balcony - you could fit that storytelling in the knight's alcove, if you wanted, not that you should. And in fact, they show basically that exact same image a moment after the knight in the Endless Hallway, where the Phantom has been added right behind Melanie (it appears an edit was made to this scene where we lost the gag of her candelabra staying put while she materializes around it - it now seems to disappear with her and the phantom, which I think is a small shame. Now when she's not there the hallway is just an empty hallway, instead of one with a spooky candelabrum floating myseriously . . . I digress)
  • The effect of The Phantom's reflection in the Vanity might be clever if 1) We hadn't seen the image of him lurking right behind her 3 times already in the attraction by this point, and 2) It wasn't so clear how it was done (it doesn't appear to be brilliantly masked out). I'll give them that the scene before could not really be considered a special effect, and now there is one where there wasn't before, but I think the reference to "All Is Vanity" that was there before, while merely more illustrative, was creepier and more sophisticated than what we have now. The current scene doesn't feel like new information, it just feels like an ok trick. The old scene wasn't a trick, but it was foreboding as heck, and gave you a moment to really notice where Melanie was at this point in the story ("Does she suddenly seem older . . .?")
  • I also couldn't tell from the video, but I agree that redressing the skeleton in the catacombs that appeared to be wearing a wedding gown would be a plus - it never read to me that it was meant to be Melanie, but once I noticed the potential I'd wished they'd either back off or commit. I always thought it was a stronger idea that we suspect what's happened (or soon to happen?) to Melanie when we see the Phantom by the open grave outside the Boudoir, but have no concrete evidence until we enter the wine cellar where her fate was ultimately revealed. Which is all to say, I hope they changed this skeleton's outfit, she just seemed like a red-herring. It looks like they might have.
  • Hard to say from video, but I'm willing to accept the new lightning in Thunder Mesa. It seems more dramatic on the ghosts and less dramatic on the scene, which wouldn't have been my choice but it's fine. I had thought this would be the scene where it was most likely we'd see a serious upgrade - I always felt a little but like this was where the ride went "off the rails", but that was also part of what made it spooky - it felt like you'd really gone into uncharted territory, and you didn't know what would happen next. I thought they might hit this scene up with some projection mapping to really drive home the otherworldly Earthquake, but it seems maybe more subdued than before. The figures appear to be in good shape, though.
  • I had actually seriously hoped against your number one wish - I can't say I entirely understood why the Phantom suddenly looked different in this scene (though I have a number of theories), but boy did it make me THINK about it. That, to me, was one of the bravest, weirdest, creepiest mysteries in the whole ride, and I had hoped they'd have the nerve to turn the heat up on it instead of off. Barbossa in DLP's Pirates suggested to me that we could see some sort of massive, spooky transformation of this figure before our eyes that made it more of a WOW and less of a *** for the big finale, but instead they backed off it altogether. Now it just feels like a repeat of the figure after the Boudoir - "I am the Phantom! Here's an open grave. Care to join me?" *Spooky laugh, spooky laugh*. Also, the red lights in the Phantom's eye sockets across the board look laaaame as heck to me. I've never thought the Phantom animatronic's Skulls ever looked quite as creepy as they should, which is maybe why I appreciated the Finale Phantom, since he spooked you out by doing a 180 and proving you don't know WHAT he is. You're right about the cloak though, he was never 100%. I was hoping they'd really "go there" with him this time. Ah, well.
  • Disappointed in the loss of "Crystal Melanie" - again, I get that with the new story beats it didn't make sense, but being that I thought the old story beats were better I can't help but lament. This crypt could gave easily been put in the space across from the unload, or shortly after where you could take a peek on your way out, and been just as good. "Crystal Melanie" was another freaky, surreal, supernatural "***" moment like you don't get from the regular Haunted Mansion, and I'd hoped that this refurb was gonna be about doubling-down on those sorts of differences instead of sanding off the edges.
  • I saw another video and a photo where the effect was clearer - Melanie now appears in the Doombuggy in the style of the traditional HitchHiking Ghost effect, but only one buggy at a time, and asks those guests if they'll marry her before vanishing and reappearing in the next buggy. I actually enjoyed the old Phantom effect - especially that it was over the Doombuggy where you couldn't look next to you and see that there's clearly nothing there in the car with you - another interesting subversion of the original Mansion experience - but did always wonder how there were suddenly multiple Phantoms at once, and only ever once saw his "vanishing" effect working in full, sparkly order. If they'd simply outfitted the old effect with the new trappings of the character only hitting one car at a time and maybe improved the vanish in look and reliability, I think I would have preferred that over this new, "stir-crazy, cabin-fever" Melanie . . . but I'll give them that she looks spooky as heck, and if I have to take this new effect then I like that about it.
  • I'm guessing Little Melanie's gone because they just wrapped up her story in the mirrors, but that's yet another reason I preferred the story beats from before. It seems obvious to me that if you're going to take away an effect like this then you should replace it with something else, and if it no longer works in your story then either change the story or find something that does fit. I hate that the guests lost a popular moment because the people running the show didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't figure out a creative way to keep something interesting happening there as your kiss goodbye. If your new story means losing things that were better in the old story, then maybe your new story isn't as good. Even if it's "clearer" and "makes more sense". Guests want an exciting experience, and if you can conjure up a story that feeds that then great, but if the experience takes a hit in favor of the story then I think you've crossed the wrong line in this medium. That's not actually what themed entertainment is about at its core. Phantom Manor is one of the best examples of that - it didn't become a cult classic that's topped the charts at DLP for 3 decades because the story was so clear, it's because the experience was so rich that it made you want to know the story. If choosing now to tell that story means you have to get rid of what made that experience rich to begin with, then I think you're dying on the wrong hill.
To add on to all of this, I'll say that I'm glad it appears that for the most part everything in the new version of the ride is executed on a high level, and that the finishes on much of the attraction appear to be better than they've ever been. I do think overall that I feel personally like the spirit of the attraction has been lost more than it's been regained - it seems to me like too many elements are an example of "overthinking it". But I won't pretend that serious work didn't go into this version of the attraction, and that for all my misgivings about choices that were made, it appears to have been pretty beautifully realized. I'm glad to see that level of care go into the attraction. If I had the choice, I would cherry-pick some of these new bits, drop them into the older version of the attraction and leave the rest of the story mostly the heck alone, and then make the whole thing sparkle the way they have here . . . but we'll have to see. Maybe this one will grow on me. I can't help but want to see it in person, anyway. It pained me to have missed it when I was in DLP two weeks ago, so I'm glad the ride is back online.

Great analysis, thanks! As much as I always felt Phantom Manor had superior budget / atmosphere / details compared to the Haunted Mansions, there were just too many moments where either I or the family & friends I was with went "Huh? I don't get it." Not "ooh isn't this mysterious" but just "Am I missing something? Is something broken and that's why I don't get it?"

The previous vanity scene, for example, set a tone, yes. And cleverly quoted some art history, yes. But for good or for ill, guests are expecting something to happen in each scene, and that scene always felt like a luxurious use of space for not much in return (especially compared to the HM attic where there's effects and gags crammed into every corner).

A couple more thoughts:

I really dig the new transforming paintings, and they found a way to pay homage to the HM's duel!
It looks like they removed the projection ghosts coming out of miniature carriages / train cars at the beginning of the town scene. They always looked so puny when compared to the Haunted Mansion floor-to-ceiling projections.
I do agree that there's not much of a climax at the end of the town by encountering the exact same skull Phantom again. But just like kids are scared by the same Wicked Witch popping up throughout Snow White's Scary Adventures, I still think this Phantom does the job just fine.
Thinking about it a bit, I think we're supposed to take in the story as "Father Ravenwood is the mad phantom... ruining life for poor Melanie..." and then at the very end, the twist is that she was in on it." In its own way, I think that's a darker tale than BOTH the original and the Constance the run of the mill axe murderer story.
 

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