Tokyo DisneySea Turns 20

BrianLo

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
BasiltheBatLord said:
Since you asked:

I have always found TDS to be one of the most overrated Disney parks. Aesthetically speaking it's wonderful and it's without a doubt the most thematically consistent "secondary park" in the Disney portfolio, but it's hurt badly by a lack of enough things to do. It just doesn't have enough worthwhile E-tickets and as a result it pales in comparison to TDL for getting your day's worth.

It's also a park that feels very stuck in the 2000s. Some people may like that and say it's a positive, and I would admit that in some respects it probably is a good thing considering what Disney is like these days, but if you live in Japan and go more often that just a one-time vacation you start to notice the stagnation of it.

Fantasy Springs has the potential to fix many of these issues, but ironically it's also probably the biggest threat to the park's coherent theme in its history so far.

Even in Japan, most people I talk to say they prefer TDS over TDL, but for me there's just no comparison. If you want a more built out park with a lot more things to do for your money's worth, TDL wins every time.
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Another hot take…

Tokyo DisneySea is overrated. Which does not mean it’s bad, just that it seemingly is inscrutable to some of its flaws in the fan community. Particularly it’s fairly light on attractions to be deemed the GOAT. As wonderful as Sindbad and the JTTCOTE are as attractions and areas, they are not widely regarded as top ten attractions anymore.

Yes it’s obviously beautiful, yes it’s very thematically coherent. But I struggle that it ‘deserves’ to be the unquestioned number one when Animal Kingdom is relegated to middle of the pack. Or when Disneyland hilariously laps it many times over with its current attraction roster. I don’t think Animal kingdom is better per say, just that the imagined gap really isn’t that wide.

The expansion is desperately overdue for it to maintain its ranking. It is amazing still in its current form, but something can be amazing and overrated.
 
BasiltheBatLord

BasiltheBatLord

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
Another hot take…

Tokyo DisneySea is overrated. Which does not mean it’s bad, just that it seemingly is inscrutable to some of its flaws in the fan community. Particularly it’s fairly light on attractions to be deemed the GOAT. As wonderful as Sindbad and the JTTCOTE are as attractions and areas, they are not widely regarded as top ten attractions anymore.

Yes it’s obviously beautiful, yes it’s very thematically coherent. But I struggle that it ‘deserves’ to be the unquestioned number one when Animal Kingdom is relegated to middle of the pack. Or when Disneyland hilariously laps it many times over with its current attraction roster. I don’t think Animal kingdom is better per say, just that the imagined gap really isn’t that wide.

The expansion is desperately overdue for it to maintain its ranking. It is amazing still in its current form, but something can be amazing and overrated.
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My opinion is that a lot of the infallible praise of TDR comes down to possibly subconscious bragging from people who have visited the resort, which for a lot of people is inaccessible for either financial or geographic reasons. Combined with the general "exoticism" of all things Japanese and/or Asian.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
Yes it’s obviously beautiful, yes it’s very thematically coherent. But I struggle that it ‘deserves’ to be the unquestioned number one when Animal Kingdom is relegated to middle of the pack. Or when Disneyland hilariously laps it many times over with its current attraction roster. I don’t think Animal kingdom is better per say, just that the imagined gap really isn’t that wide.
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Disneyland indeed has a very impressive number of rides, but when it comes to like-for-like comparisons, I generally prefer the versions at other parks. Paris and Tokyo in particular.

I'd also say that TDS ranks so high in part because the others are so much obviously worse. When your competition includes what's left of EPCOT, DCA, the two Studios parks, the nice but still underbuilt HKDL, Iger-era Magic Kingdom...it's hard not to be top tier.

I think TDS along with Euro Disneyland and the original EPCOT Center were the three best designed parks they've built. If I could visit any Disney park at any time in history, I might be one of the few to say WDW's MK in 1992.

But this isn't 1992, 2002 or even 2012 anymore. It's 2022 and I still would say the two Tokyo parks are the best, and not just because that's the popular opinion in fan circles. There's also factors like value for money and quality of customer service/maintenance that I consider.
 
BrianLo

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
Disneyland indeed has a very impressive number of rides, but when it comes to like-for-like comparisons, I generally prefer the versions at other parks. Paris and Tokyo in particular.

I'd also say that TDS ranks so high in part because the others are so much obviously worse. When your competition includes what's left of EPCOT, DCA, the two Studios parks, the nice but still underbuilt HKDL, Iger-era Magic Kingdom...it's hard not to be top tier.

I think TDS along with Euro Disneyland and the original EPCOT Center were the three best designed parks they've built. If I could visit any Disney park at any time in history, I might be one of the few to say WDW's MK in 1992.

But this isn't 1992, 2002 or even 2012 anymore. It's 2022 and I still would say the two Tokyo parks are the best, and not just because that's the popular opinion in fan circles. There's also factors like value for money and quality of customer service/maintenance that I consider.
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I think my post comes across like I'm trying to say TDS deserves to be number 8. I'm not. 😂

It can be both number one and overrated. Albeit, I feel like the castle parks sometimes get underrated precisely because of their redundancy. If none of the castle parks existed I'm sure Tokyo Disneyland would still be considered the better park, even if TDS is prettier. So much of TDS' allure is because it is so unique (and so well done with more 'modern' ambition). The same way that Epcot was... when it used to be actually good.


Most of my annoyance at TDS comes down to my personal history with the park. I visited it first in 2011 and was so blown away and have been essentially waiting ever since for them to actually do something next of merit. TSMM and Soarin, while amazingly integrated, aren't remotely unique. Of course, I do acknowledge this was never OLC's intention, Fantasy Springs is at least 5 years delayed from when they actually wanted to start opening things in the park. At least it got more ambitious. I'll probably be singing the parks' praises again come 2023-24.

But every single Disney Park has or will have gotten an actual E-ticket more recently than TDS, until that point. Using their tower of terror as the clock. Which I don't feel many people realize.
 
fradz

fradz

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
But every single Disney Park has or will have gotten an actual E-ticket more recently than TDS, until that point. Using their tower of terror as the clock. Which I don't feel many people realize.
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Except Parc Disneyland 😂😭😭😭

Also TDL, for me at least, has the "MK problem": big wide alleys and an ugly ugly Fantasyland core (behind the castle). I wish they would get the facade retheme that Disneyland got so many years ago (or that DLP was built with), and that they would use pavements which have much more soul.

Also have to agree with @Animaniac93-98 that you won't find better value for money or friendliness of casts anywhere else
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
D23 released a prerecorded panel on Tokyo DisneySea’s 20th. Available from today til February 27th for D23 Gold Members and General Members ($11.50). Sadly, some of the leads from the TDS design team weren’t included, the Kirk brothers, Larry Nikolai and Thor Thorandson being obvious examples.


This exclusive virtual event will feature a grand gathering of Imagineers who will take us on a journey spanning everything from the park’s origins and history to beautiful artwork and storytelling, to plenty of behind-the-scenes stories that will let us meet some of the fascinating people who bring our favorite places to life.

The fourth in this celebratory series marks the twentieth anniversary of Tokyo DisneySea. Hosted by Academy Award®–nominated director Leslie Iwerks, we’ll begin with a special roundtable discussion at the Walt Disney Imagineering Glendale campus. Emily “Emo” O’Brien(Portfolio Executive Producer), Daniel Jue (Portfolio Creative Executive), and Craig Russell (Project Integration Executive) will look back at the park’s origins to explore how these “ports of call” make up one of the most ambitious and unique theme parks ever created. The discussion will range from the park’s original mission, to how it has been embraced by fans and celebrated multiple expansions, to the phenomenon of Duffy & Friends—reflecting on the park’s first twenty years and looking to its shining, shimmering future!

We’ll then go across the Pacific to Tokyo, where David Hoffman (Executive Creative Development) and some of his team members will take us on our virtual tour around the ports of call nestled alongside Tokyo Bay.

Embarking from the original ports of call of Mediterranean Harbor, Lost River Delta, American Waterfront, Mysterious Island, Arabian Coast, Mermaid Lagoon, and Port Discovery, we’ll look at some of the most iconic attractions and entertainment. As we go through the years, we’ll celebrate additions to the park, such as Raging Spirits, Tower of Terror, Nemo & Friends SeaRider, Toy Story Mania! and Soaring: Fantastic Flight—all culminating with the upcoming expansion of Fantasy Springs, which unfolds the worlds of Disney films such as Frozen, Tangled, and Peter Pan, coming in 2023.

D23 Members are in for a treat as we get to hear directly from an all-star roster of creative talent from around the world, including:

  • Fabrice Kennel, Executive Production Design
  • Catherine Black, Senior Design Project Manager
  • David Edminster, Executive Production Design
  • Justin Faulconer, Senior Show Manager
  • Roger Gould, Creative Director of Franchise Management and Parks Integration for Pixar Animation Studios and Walt Disney Animation Studios
  • Jackie Hilo, Senior Project Manager
  • David Hoffman, Executive Creative Development
  • Roger Heartsner, Executive Producer, Disney Live Entertainment
  • Zsolt Hormay, Executive Production Design
  • Daniel Jue, Portfolio Creative Executive, Tokyo Disney Resort
  • Eric Miller, Principal Production Designer
  • Emily “Emo” O’Brien, Portfolio Executive Producer, Tokyo Disney Resort
  • Craig Russell, Project Integration Executive
  • Paul Rivet, Director, Entertainment
  • Mark Schirmer, Executive Creative Producer, Tokyo Disney Resort
  • Staci Schofield, Senior Creative Director
  • Owen Yoshino, Senior Creative Director
  • Hazem Zidane, Principal Show Set Designer
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lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
lazyboy97o said:
Some. That’s like not having Tony Baxter and Tom Morris on a panel discussing Disneyland Paris.
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The panel wasn’t very good. It’s bad when the DCA 20 video they did was better. Very fluffy, ahistorical discussion. Pushing Fantasy Springs, of course. Fantasy Springs hotel will be 450ish deluxe rooms and 50ish “luxury” room; not sure if that room count had been made public. Some of the imagineer/cast recollections were nice, but this presentation did not befit one of the zeniths of Disney themed entertainment.

Some on the ground shots from the Fantasy Springs talking head interviews inside the construction site.
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UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
TSMM and Soarin, while amazingly integrated, aren't remotely unique.
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Soarin' was a real missed opportunity at TDS (I also think TSMM is a terrible ride, but that's not really relevant).

The building etc. is wonderful, and then you get on the same Soarin' that exists in the US. The video you watch doesn't really fit with the buildup at all. It absolutely needed a new ride video to fit the theme that the building/queue promotes.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
Soarin' was a real missed opportunity at TDS (I also think TSMM is a terrible ride, but that's not really relevant).

The building etc. is wonderful, and then you get on the same Soarin' that exists in the US. The video you watch doesn't really fit with the buildup at all. It absolutely needed a new ride video to fit the theme that the building/queue promotes.
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Should have been Soaring Over the Mediterranean.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
The panel wasn’t very good. It’s bad when the DCA 20 video they did was better. Very fluffy, ahistorical discussion. Pushing Fantasy Springs, of course. Fantasy Springs hotel will be 450ish deluxe rooms and 50ish “luxury” room; not sure if that room count had been made public. Some of the imagineer/cast recollections were nice, but this presentation did not befit one of the zeniths of Disney themed entertainment.

Some on the ground shots from the Fantasy Springs talking head interviews inside the construction site.

View attachment 616991
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If I didn't know that mountain was Neverland, I'd just assume it was a shot of Galaxy's Edge.

We're starting to get to the point where these theme park mountains have a general sameness to them.
 
M

Married5Times

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
As wonderful as Sindbad and the JTTCOTE are as attractions and areas, they are not widely regarded as top ten attractions anymore.
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first things first..........since when has Sindbad been widely viewed as a top 10er? I personally love it; I find it a playful and moving treat, a can't miss when I go. But top 10 by the masses? TOP 10???? no way. I can't even see the masses around the globe putting it in top 20. Top 30 is more like it based on my readings of aggregate views of Disney and Universal type offerings.


On to Journey.
Journey to Center has Mt Prometheus as a frontage, the greatest, most detailed frontage ever constructed, anywhere along with an unbelievably fine queue and a ride that garners repeatability more than any other, I say. From reading opinions it's still an easy top 10er from those who are qualified(well-traveled) to make claims.
 

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