Tokyo Disneyland Resort Expansion

[22031029]

I’m avoiding the spoilers, but it’s a bit fascinating watching Hong Kong’s FEA getting progressively more positive re-evaluation and this getting less. Looks like HK wasn’t screwed over after all.

Though I’ve also not spoiled or experienced B&TB and that seems to be softening to more positivity than initial reactions. I guess expectancy on this ride was just way too high?

It will be really amusing if TBA is seen as the superior attraction over Tokyo’s Frozen.

although FJ is definitely more technologically advanced, the level of intimacy and storytelling in HKDL's FEA (especially with those awesome animatronics) is a plus in my book! but in terms of uniqueness FJ wins out. i can see IP fans leaning more towards FJ, but casual guests might gravitate towards FEA for it's coherency.

 

[mickEblu]

I disagree on FEA (I think it's pretty lame), but I would have rather gotten a big Tangled ride, rather than the FEA-version of it.

I'm not even sure it's the FEA version. I'm getting the sense its on an even smaller scale.

 

[UNCgolf]

My main complaint is they should’ve cut scenes 2-4 because they’re excessive…

We don’t even have a full-ride through yet, but it’s very very impressive nonetheless.

Scenes 5-11 are better than what I would even come up with in a best case scenario even if scene 5 could use a few tweaks.

Like I genuinely don’t know what dark rides to compare this to if this ride is bad. Like what would be good? The only reasonable comparison is pirates and it seems to stack up very well.

To me it looks significantly weaker than most of Disney's major E ticket dark rides, both existing and NLE -- Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion, Splash Mountain, Horizons, Journey into Imagination, Great Movie Ride, etc., and weaker than the recent Beauty and the Beast ride too.

It doesn't seem bad, just kind of bland and underwhelming for too much of the ride. Lots of empty space; reminiscent of FEA in places.

From what we know about Tiana, I'll be surprised if it's not a much better attraction than this.

 

[Bayou]

Your perspective is way more positive than everything else I’m seeing here. Which I’m not complaining about, I’ll probably like it a lot.

I just feel like people are holding this attraction to an extremely high standard because it's Tokyo. Like every ride, it has its flaws, and, isn't of the same quality the best stuff to come out during WED days was, but this is some of the best from post 90s Disney. The scale of this ride in particular is unmatched.

 

[Supersnow84]

I think the comparison between Shanghai and Disneyland pirates is relatively apt because while Shanghai pirates is objectively the technologically superior ride it’s not an uncommon opinion to hold to actually prefer the original

Though I do think the level of improvement between original pirates and Shanghai pirates is greater than on offer here as this version hasn’t really revolutionised the original attraction

HK’s problem was never really FEA, it was the fact that with quinjet MIA FEA kinda took on the mantle of “expansion headliner” when that wasn’t its intention. This is actually the headliner of fantasy springs

 

[Jubs]

I think the comparison between Shanghai and Disneyland pirates is relatively apt because while Shanghai pirates is objectively the technologically superior ride it’s not an uncommon opinion to hold to actually prefer the original

There's a point to be made that the type of people that hang out on a forum like this are perhaps particularly biased to technology advancement over all else. It's a lot more fun to pour over the deep technological details of a new ride system or whatnot, than the old tried and tested. I am guilty of this myself.

 

[wityblack]

I too feel like this ride is missing something. It really is missing the dynamism that this needs

Spoiler

(although the
ice rising up is a good start, and I imagine there is a cool effect with the fountains as well.) But there are two moments that I feel like would greatly improve the ride, and be "wow" moments that the ride needs, especially the latter.
1.
She should be walking up the lift hill during Let it Go along with you. The song is about walking away from your life, but there is no walking.
2.
Elsa should physically conjure up the ice castle. Different layers rising from the snow in time with the music."
I also feel that some of the ride is, I guess the best word is uncanny, maybe not well synced. Like
Anna and Hans reaction to the spikes. It feels like the Kylo Ren animatronic animation but weirdly out of sync and late, and too fluid.

The ride feels like snapshots someone took of a stage play. It has too much emptiness, and too much reliance on seemingly unconvincing projections. BatB has a beautiful painterly like transition of the castle at the end, and it feels straight out of the movie. The ice here just feels... flat. There are no doubt incredibly well produced discrete elements. The animatronics are truly impressive. Some of the effects are really cool. It just feels poorly staged.

 

[PiratesMansion]

There's a point to be made that the type of people that hang out on a forum like this are perhaps particularly biased to technology advancement over all else. It's a lot more fun to pour over the deep technological details of a new ride system or whatnot, than the old tried and tested. I am guilty of this myself.

I'd actually say that there are also people here who might declare classic Pirates superior for a whole host of arbitrary reasons that will never be spoken, including but not limited to:
1) "I've been on classic Pirates and have weird feelings about Shanghai Disneyland in general, so obviously classic Pirates is better."
2) A need to reassure themselves that there's nothing wrong with them having no desire to visit the other parks around the world
3) Feeling insulted by the fact that this version uses the movie characters even more than the other versions of the ride (which means they fit a lot better becasue the newer ride is engineered from the ground up to include them, but that's not what people want to focus on)
4) A bias against modern Imagineering, who simply cannot do anything right in some people's eyes
5) Out of misplaced loyalty to WED, as if the Ghost of Marc Davis will haunt their dreams if they admit to liking the Shanghai Pirates.

Now, that's obviously not everyone, but there's often a lot of weird projection where everything SDL in particular is concerned. I'd say there's an argument to be made that Disney, the company focuses on tech above all else now, but I find that while some fans are focused on tech in the same way, there are at least as many people who are really into the classics up to an arbitrary point and scorn newer rides on principle as being "soulless" or whatever descriptor they choose to use.

 

[UNCgolf]

I'd actually say that there are also people here who might declare classic Pirates superior for a whole host of arbitrary reasons that will never be spoken, including but not limited to:
1) "I've been on classic Pirates and have weird feelings about Shanghai Disneyland in general, so obviously classic Pirates is better."
2) A need to reassure themselves that there's nothing wrong with them having no desire to visit the other parks around the world
3) Feeling insulted by the fact that this version uses the movie characters even more than the other versions of the ride (which means they fit a lot better becasue the newer ride is engineered from the ground up to include them, but that's not what people want to focus on)
4) A bias against modern Imagineering, who simply cannot do anything right in some people's eyes
5) Out of misplaced loyalty to WED, as if the Ghost of Marc Davis will haunt their dreams if they admit to liking the Shanghai Pirates.

Now, that's obviously not everyone, but there's often a lot of weird projection where everything SDL in particular is concerned. I'd say there's an argument to be made that Disney, the company focuses on tech above all else now, but I find that while some fans are focused on tech in the same way, there are at least as many people who are really into the classics up to an arbitrary point and scorn newer rides on principle as being "soulless" or whatever descriptor they choose to use.

I'm sure those things are true for some people, but I doubt any of those are the reason that most people who prefer classic Pirates to Shanghai do so.

The issue with Shanghai Pirates is that it relies too heavily on screens. There are some really impressive moments, but screens/projections nearly always pale in comparison to physical sets for me (I don't think I've ever been on a heavily screen based ride anywhere that compares favorably to set/AA heavy attractions). Shanghai obviously does have some good sets and AAs in places, but overall the ride relies too heavily on scenes that are mainly or even solely screens.

Of course it's a good attraction, and the tech is impressive, but I think the overall design/content isn't as good as it could have been, and they could use that ride system to build something better.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I'm sure those things are true for some people, but I doubt any of those are the reason that most people who prefer classic Pirates to Shanghai do so.

The issue with Shanghai Pirates is that it relies too heavily on screens. There are some really impressive moments, but screens/projections nearly always pale in comparison to physical sets for me (I don't think I've ever been on a heavily screen based ride anywhere that compares favorably to set/AA heavy attractions). Shanghai obviously does have some good sets and AAs in places, but overall the ride relies too heavily on scenes that are mainly or even solely screens.

Of course it's a good attraction, and the tech is impressive, but I think the overall design/content isn't as good as it could have been, and they could use that ride system to build something better.

I think that there can be good attractions full of AAs and physical sets AND good screen-based attractions. I enjoy work made by both WED and many of the newer WDI attractions and think both are capable of great work.

While your feelings are valid (as are the feelings of many others who prefer classic Pirates), I can't help but wonder how many people have actually DONE the Shanghai Pirates ride in person vs. judging it from screens. I maintain that actually experiencing an attraction makes a tremendous difference in judging its value. And because not many people here have actually been on the newer ride, and people can have all sorts of opinions on some combination of the resort being so different, the country it's located in, and/or the current capabilities (or lack thereof, as the case may be) of modern imagineering, I feel like the resort in general and Pirates specifically, as that park's obvious showcase, get hit with a lot of nitpicks (not saying you specifically are one of the people doing that). I know for myself that a lot of the criticisms I had read about the place melted away when I was actually there, and I suspect the same would be true for many people were they to experience the ride in person.

That could well be me reading into people's responses and forming my own judgments accordingly, but I do feel that there's a lot of apprehension in general whenever anything Shanghai is brought up from many people, and that inevitably colors discussion of everything there for them, including discussion of its signature ride. YMMV.

 

[britain]

That's why I think Paris Pirates vs. Shanghai Pirates is a better discussion, because it takes WED nostalgia out of it.

 

[Bayou]

That's why I think Paris Pirates vs. Shanghai Pirates is a better discussion, because it takes WED nostalgia out of it.

Paris Pirates.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think that there can be good attractions full of AAs and physical sets AND good screen-based attractions. I enjoy work made by both WED and many of the newer WDI attractions and think both are capable of great work.

While your feelings are valid (as are the feelings of many others who prefer classic Pirates), I can't help but wonder how many people have actually DONE the Shanghai Pirates ride in person vs. judging it from screens. I maintain that actually experiencing an attraction makes a tremendous difference in judging its value. And because not many people here have actually been on the newer ride, and people can have all sorts of opinions on some combination of the resort being so different, the country it's located in, and/or the current capabilities (or lack thereof, as the case may be) of modern imagineering, I feel like the resort in general and Pirates specifically, as that park's obvious showcase, get hit with a lot of nitpicks (not saying you specifically are one of the people doing that). I know for myself that a lot of the criticisms I had read about the place melted away when I was actually there, and I suspect the same would be true for many people were they to experience the ride in person.

That could well be me reading into people's responses and forming my own judgments accordingly, but I do feel that there's a lot of apprehension in general whenever anything Shanghai is brought up from many people, and that inevitably colors discussion of everything there for them, including discussion of its signature ride. YMMV.

I think there can be good screen-based attractions (Flight of Passage is one example), but for me personally I'm not sure they they can ever live up to AA/physical sets. They just don't feel immersive/transportive to me. It's one of the reasons most of the current attraction lineup at Universal isn't very interesting to me (and why the Monsters/HP rides at EU do sound intriguing).

That's obviously subjective, because some people are very immersed in screen-based attractions, maybe even moreso than ones with physical sets. For me, though, I need to inhabit a three dimensional physical space for the ride to feel like something significantly more than watching a movie. A combination of screens and physical sets/AAs can work well to varying degrees (Na'vi River Journey does this excellently, despite other flaws), but screens alone always feel lesser to me. Shanghai Pirates obviously isn't screens alone for the whole attraction, but the screens only parts detract from the rest of the experience (I have the same problem with Forbidden Journey, which is another attraction very highly rated by some).

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

I think there can be good screen-based attractions (Flight of Passage is one example), but for me personally I'm not sure they they can ever live up to AA/physical sets. They just don't feel immersive/transportive to me. It's one of the reasons most of the current attraction lineup at Universal isn't very interesting to me (and why the Monsters/HP rides at EU do sound intriguing).

That's obviously subjective, because some people are very immersed in screen-based attractions, maybe even moreso than ones with physical sets. For me, though, I need to inhabit a three dimensional physical space for the ride to feel like something significantly more than watching a movie. A combination of screens and physical sets/AAs can work well to varying degrees (Na'vi River Journey does this excellently, despite other flaws), but screens alone always feel lesser to me. Shanghai Pirates obviously isn't screens alone for the whole attraction, but the screens only parts detract from the rest of the experience (I have the same problem with Forbidden Journey, which is another attraction very highly rated by some).

I agree with all of your points, especially regarding Forbidden Journey. The giant screen-only scenes on that attraction are some of the worst I've experienced in any modern E-ticket. Too long, grainy quality, and very disorienting/nauseating. It's a shame because the rest of the attraction is excellent.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I’m avoiding the spoilers, but it’s a bit fascinating watching Hong Kong’s FEA getting progressively more positive re-evaluation and this getting less. Looks like HK wasn’t screwed over after all.

I think many, myself included, expected DisneySea's Frozen Journey to be substantially better and different when it came to staging, length, pacing, number of effects/figures etc

The end result appears to be...not as much. It recycles a bunch of the HKDL ride and doesn't really add to it beyond being longer and even more of a literal book report (it's the most book report of any book report ride), which works against it.

It will be really amusing if TBA is seen as the superior attraction over Tokyo’s Frozen.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

I think many, myself included, expected DisneySea's Frozen Journey to be substantially better and different when it came to staging, length, pacing, number of effects/figures etc

This is one area that I do consider substantially better than FEA, along with the size and detail of the show scenes. Even the more intimate scenes like the coronation have a scale befitting the castle setting (the video really doesn't do it justice). But to touch on effects/figures, the AA count is significantly higher than FEA even with the missing scene and have an even greater range of motion. From a limited angle POV, I can also see a multitude of impressive effects unique only to this version.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think many, myself included, expected DisneySea's Frozen Journey to be substantially better and different when it came to staging, length, pacing, number of effects/figures etc

The end result appears to be...not as much. It recycles a bunch of the HKDL ride and doesn't really add to it beyond being longer and even more of a literal book report (it's the most book report of any book report ride), which works against it.



At this point, I wouldn't be surprised.

Based on what we know about Tiana at this point, I'll actually be surprised if it's not better than Frozen Journey. Partially because the info about the actual ride experience of Tiana sounds quite solid, and partially because Frozen Journey is such a disappointment.

 

[aleh021]

Based on what we know about Tiana at this point, I'll actually be surprised if it's not better than Frozen Journey. Partially because the info about the actual ride experience of Tiana sounds quite solid, and partially because Frozen Journey is such a disappointment.

Well I mean. Tiana is not a brand new ride. It’s a new retheme of an existing ride.

People are going to ride it regardless what the theme was because the ride itself is great.

I think people need to really hold their opinions on Frozen because we’ve yet to see a clear video of the ride itself. Or at least read reviews of those who have actually been on it.

 

[Bayou]

Based on what we know about Tiana at this point, I'll actually be surprised if it's not better than Frozen Journey. Partially because the info about the actual ride experience of Tiana sounds quite solid, and partially because Frozen Journey is such a disappointment.

It is not a disappointment.

 

[McMickeyWorld]

My review
I would like to clarify that this probably has a bit more bias; I'm a huge fan of many things, and one of them is Frozen. I know the story from A to Z; I've gone through the original soundtrack thousands of times, including the adaptations in Japanese and Spanish, as well as the albums from the English and Japanese versions of the musical. The only thing I haven't seen is the sequel.
So judging the attraction from the POV of bad quality that we have already seen: I don't think the story development is so dreadful, and personally, it seems to me that the conflict and possible resolution unfold in a more fluid and satisfactory manner than in BatB.
I interpret the attraction as follows: the trolls start telling the story to the Sisters through visions, we enter the cave and continue seeing the visions. We observe Anna's childhood incident. The images become more vivid, and the following scenes continue... I think this is a good way to present the facts and it feels more coherent than in Ever After. Now, I don't think the execution is so bad; it's not perfect, but there's no perfect attraction, not even in Walt's time or in the 90s was a perfect attraction created. I think a Trackless will be more intimate and work better for timing the scenes.
I believe the attraction would benefit from more physical props, especially in the childhood scene. It would be good to see some toys representing her childhood to enhance the more dreamlike and confusing aspect of the situation, as well as some projections of the parents taking Anna to the trolls.
One point I would like to bring up is the lack of artistic freedom to convey situations-feelings in a less literal or even more abstract way in current attractions and current movies. I agree that animatronics are missing in the coronation scenes and the frozen scene, but I think if extras were added like in the ending, it would detract from the sentiment and deviate from the concept. I would propose that a good option would be animatronics-figures representing silhouettes, representing the pressure with roots in her childhood and Elsa's own feeling of rejection felt in her respective scenes.
One thing I appreciate from Ever After is the reflection effect on the ice; in the conflict scene, it would feel more satisfying if instead of just being a vision projected on a flat surface, it would be the reflection of the situation bouncing off all those ice shards; it could even feel more dramatic.
the biggest 'crime' I see is that they abandon the trolls and Hans in the end. It would have been a better farewell if instead of just Olaf, it would be good to see Hans arrested and Olaf listening to the troll.