Tokyo Disneyland Resort Expansion

[britain]

Indy falls more on the “exploration” side of the park’s thesis. (Personally, I think it’s the weakest thematic link in the park) Journey is connected to Nemo/Verne/20K so that works. FWIW, Soarin and ToT were planned additions from day one. In fact, the first coffee table book has a model of TDS with an early iteration of ToT.

Technically ToT was there from day two. Dick Tracy's Crime Stoppers was going to be in that spot, but that got replaced with ToT pretty early in the process.

 

[Casper Gutman]

That makes two of us! However, Leemac on Laughingplace and others have said the quality of the landfill is poor and they have compensated for this since the beginning. Which brings it back to the spending problem, you likely have two clones (PPF and Frozen), two new rides, three restaurants and a hotel with a lower capacity than its predecessors. That list doesn’t scream, half of TDS’ budget to me, which at the time was the most extravagantly budgeted park in Disney history. Building codes don’t seem to be the problem here. Maybe they’ll get squeezed by contractors because of the Olympics, but I don’t know.

If this was an addition to their Fantasyland, I’d be all for it (minus hotel), but it’s this appendage on world’s best theme park.
This is a point I seem to get into arguments about; that doing something isn’t conservative. When I think about the design of these parks, and how that connects to the business, a reasonable option can be the worst outcome because it doesn’t address the core problem.

Like WDSP, the problem is the park will never be an equal to DLP and will always be a heroin monkey, constantly needing money, competing for limited guest time, internal resources etc. The reasonable plan put forth by Burbank to turn it into a UNI park doubles down on a flawed design and conception of a Disney park. The spaces are clones or reskins of existing facilities, not creating timeless, intergenerational spaces, the hallmark of Disney theme parks. It also fails to establish Marvel and Star Wars on their own terms in the medium of themed entertainment, but that’s another discussion I don’t want to have in public.

Now let’s bring that back to the new TDS port. Obviously, it makes lots of sense to expand the parks on the footprint of the parking lot. You can keep pushing the capacity of these parks without trade offs. This parcel of land was going to be developed, the question centers around which park does it go to. That’s the problem, if you tear down/relocate Toontown, you open up lots of capacity for a much larger FL building on what is being built now; strong thematic fit. But there’s the issue of balancing out the parks and the new port does that with little regard for anything else like theme. So you have a reasonable solution which damages the integrity of TDS with an ugly hotel that will bring the real world wealth gap into the park for no good thematic reason.

I don’t know where you get the idea that Pan and Frozen will be clones - absolutely nothing in Tokyo’s recent history lends any credence to this idea. Monsters and Pooh sure aren’t clones of their counterparts in other parks. I find it wildly unlikely that TDL is going to reproduce a Frozen ride that was jammed into a facility that was already too small. And why would you think they are going to clone a Pan ride they already have?

Imagineerings runaway budgets are a definite issue, but this seems like a really weird place to get hung up on them.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I love how everyone is willing to give this a pass because it's Tokyo... but what does any of this have to do with Tokyo Disney Sea?

 

[britain]

I don’t know where you get the idea that Pan and Frozen will be clones - absolutely nothing in Tokyo’s recent history lends any credence to this idea. Monsters and Pooh sure aren’t clones of their counterparts in other parks. I find it wildly unlikely that TDL is going to reproduce a Frozen ride that was jammed into a facility that was already too small. And why would you think they are going to clone a Pan ride they already have?

Imagineerings runaway budgets are a definite issue, but this seems like a really weird place to get hung up on them.

I agree - it sounds more like this new Pan will be some sort of Shanghai PotC attraction.

 

[britain]

I love how everyone is willing to give this a pass because it's Tokyo... but what does any of this have to do with Tokyo Disney Sea?

Disneysea has always been a flexible theme, accommodating almost anything like Disneyland.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Disneysea has always been a flexible theme, accommodating almost anything like Disneyland.

Yup. ToT, Indy, Journey to the Center of the Earth - not a lot to do with the sea. Frozen, set in a seaport city, and Pan, which centers around a pirate ship, have at least as much to do with the sea as Agrabah and Sinbad. As Britain said, it’s a counterpart to DisneyLAND and can accommodate a wide variety of themes.

But yes. Even if none of that were true, TDL, which has been building cutting edge attractions of unmatched artistry, deserves far more benefit of the doubt then WDW, which has been not only letting their parks stagnate but has actively ripped them apart. Personally, I also give DL a lot more benefit of the doubt then WDW as well (though not nearly as much as TDL).

 

[stitchcastle]

That hotel is ugly.

it actually looks like it's inspired by Antoni Gaudi's architecture, the guy responsible for the fanciful architecture in Barcelona, it makes so much sense that a hotel dedicated to Fantasy(land) would be based on it.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I don’t know where you get the idea that Pan and Frozen will be clones - absolutely nothing in Tokyo’s recent history lends any credence to this idea. Monsters and Pooh sure aren’t clones of their counterparts in other parks. I find it wildly unlikely that TDL is going to reproduce a Frozen ride that was jammed into a facility that was already too small. And why would you think they are going to clone a Pan ride they already have?

Imagineerings runaway budgets are a definite issue, but this seems like a really weird place to get hung up on them.

HKDL and Paris are getting Frozen boat rides. How would one not think the Tokyo attraction would be unique like PHH, maybe the best of the bunch like Splash, but certainly not unique. SHDL just built a high tech PPF, you don’t think clone happy Chappie wouldn’t port that over; remember PPF is techinically a boat ride.

One last thing: We’ve been getting TDS level budgets stateside for years with NFL, CL and now Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge. The budgets aren’t new what make rides/areas/parks great. It’s great design and artistry that makes them so.

 

[stitchcastle]

I am dissapointed that Frozen is gonna be a boat ride instead of a sleigh ride like it should be.

 

[Casper Gutman]

HKDL and Paris are getting Frozen boat rides. How would one not think the Tokyo attraction would be unique like PHH, maybe the best of the bunch like Splash, but certainly not unique. SHDL just built a high tech PPF, you don’t think clone happy Chappie wouldn’t port that over; remember PPF is techinically a boat ride.

One last thing: We’ve been getting TDS level budgets stateside for years with NFL, CL and now Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge. The budgets aren’t new what make rides/areas/parks great. It’s great design and artistry that makes them so.

Chappie has nothing to do with the decision at all, this is the OLC calling the shots, and they have continually pushed for a higher level of quality then the other Disney parks. Frozen may be a version of the HKDL ride which we have no details about. I would be very surprised if Pan isn’t considerably more ambitious then the Shanghai version, especially since many of that rides new effects could be achieved by updating Tokyo’s existing Pan.

This is a whole different set of decision makers then the ones guiding the other parks. We need to bear that in mind.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Chappie has nothing to do with the decision at all, this is the OLC calling the shots, and they have continually pushed for a higher level of quality then the other Disney parks. Frozen may be a version of the HKDL ride which we have no details about. I would be very surprised if Pan isn’t considerably more ambitious then the Shanghai version, especially since many of that rides new effects could be achieved by updating Tokyo’s existing Pan.

This is a whole different set of decision makers then the ones guiding the other parks. We need to bear that in mind.

That’s not how this works. Disney has final approval. It’s their call. When someone else pays the bill, they make different decisions. Yes they can veto a DMGM Tokyo or a Pandora because they’re paying, but they pick from what Disney wants them to build. Michael didn’t seem to have any problem with TDS as they were building two craptacular (DCA & WDSP) and two underbuilt (DAK & HKDL) parks.

 

[Voxel]

Yes and no. Both parties have final say. If Disney wants a clone of the Ride, OLC has every right to say no. Yes Disney Corperation has Creative Control, so they have final say in how Characters appear or act or behave. But my understanding of the agreement is that WDI is basically "Contracted" out to OLC and has more freedoms than when working in house. Most of Disney Management do not have veto power over what WDI does for OLC unless it conflicts with the image of a Disney Park or Character. (Than again this should be public knowledge from the original contract which I don't have the resources to search for at this moment).

 

[Voxel]

Part of the problem we are trying to simplify the complex relationship between OLC and Disney without any of us reading the original 1979 Contract.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yes and no. Both parties have final say. If Disney wants a clone of the Ride, OLC has every right to say no. Yes Disney Corperation has Creative Control, so they have final say in how Characters appear or act or behave. But my understanding of the agreement is that WDI is basically "Contracted" out to OLC and has more freedoms than when working in house. Most of Disney Management do not have veto power over what WDI does for OLC unless it conflicts with the image of a Disney Park or Character. (Than again this should be public knowledge from the original contract which I don't have the resources to search for at this moment).

This is my understanding.

Chappie’s preoccupation with clones is the product of a desire for efficiency and affordability. As Dreamfinder indicated, with OLC footing the bill, those concerns don’t apply. It is unlikely Chappie would veto TDL when they say they want the biggest and best ride to show off Chappie’s beloved IPs. Thus, we need to view future developments at TDL through a very different lenses then those at WDW, DL, and DLP (Shanghai and HKDL are another matter entirely).

 

[rabbit111]

This will probably be a good reference for PeterPan Ride System.


from official press release

One attraction will fly Guests over the jungles of Never Land into a battle with Captain Hook and his crew of pirates.
Guests will join Peter Pan in an adventure to rescue Wendy’s younger brother, John, who has been kidnapped by Captain Hook and his pirates.
Guests board boats and follow the Lost Boys down a river.
When Tinker Bell sprinkles the boats with pixie dust,

"Guests find themselves flying through Never Land on an unprecedented adventure that features iconic music and dynamic 3D imagery of the characters from the film."

 

[Suchomimus]

I am dissapointed that Frozen is gonna be a boat ride instead of a sleigh ride like it should be.

I was hoping that it would be a LPS dark ride instead of like FEA.

 

[Timothy_Q]

FWIW, Soarin and ToT were planned additions from day one. In fact, the first coffee table book has a model of TDS with an early iteration of ToT.

Exactly my point.

Rides planned from day one have no direct link to "the sea" either.

They work because of how they're incorporated into the park.
Land design and backstory. And how they fit the exploration theme.

This new port can work just as well

 

[Suchomimus]

Yup. ToT, Indy, Journey to the Center of the Earth - not a lot to do with the sea. Frozen, set in a seaport city, and Pan, which centers around a pirate ship, have at least as much to do with the sea as Agrabah and Sinbad.

And I think Corona is situated on an island of the coast of Germany.

 

[PorterRedkey]

So you have the old school PP ride at Tokyo DL and now you are going to have a whole other ride/area dedicated to Peter at TDS that is more technically advanced and immersive. I mean a boat ride to "flying" ride sounds awesome!

I would bet PP at TDL gets rethemed or heaven forbids they turn it into another MnG like they did with Snow White at WDW.