Tipping

[GrinningCat]

For the record, because tipped wage in the US causes a lot of confusion for even Americans, much less people from countries where tipping is far less common (or even not a thing at all).

...

So, that's how it works, and my final point is that in NO WAY can a tipped employee be paid less than the State Minimum Wage (which must meet or exceed the Federal Minimum Wage) by their employer.

Make sense?

Oh no!!!! Word problems first thing in the morning!



This is very well stated...and yes, it does make sense...even if I don't do math in public.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

How difficult would it be to just pay servers a decent wage and tip on top if deserved ? ....very difficult it appears when we have a system that benefits some while others suffer. There is no consensus for change . Menu prices would rise you say ...at the moment you pay a hidden cost on the menu its the tip !

Because SOME servers (i.e. the bad ones) don't deserve what some people would call a "decent wage."

If severs feel they're underpaid, they're free to seek employment elsewhere. This argument that we're somehow supposed to pity them because some people are poor tippers or their big, bad employers don't pay them enough is sentimental nonsense and ignores the fact that they CHOSE to work where they work. If someone offers me a position at $30,000 per year and I think I'm worth $60,000 per year, I'm not going to accept the $30,000 offer. If nobody offers me more than $30,000 per year, then maybe that's what I'm worth and I should have paid more attention in school.

 

[englanddg]

To put that into perspective, according to BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics)

There are something like 2.1 million Waiters and Waitress jobs in the US. Their mean hourly wage is $10.29. Their mean annual wage is 21,410.

However, this is nationwide. In Florida, the mean hourly wage is $10.60, or $22,040 per annum.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes353031.htm

So, my point with this isn't "is that enough"...it's that they aren't making $2.32 (or in FL $5.02) per hour when all is said and done. That is a common misnomer.

 

[englanddg]

Also, for some further clarification...drivers (if W-2) cannot be tipped employees, however if they are 1099, then they are self employed (many taxi companies operate this way), and the employer does not have to comply with wage laws

Counter service people, cooks, busboys, cashiers, housekeepers...none of these people can be paid a tipped wage. The must be paid at least minimum wage up front.

 

[Kit83]

Also, for some further clarification...drivers (if W-2) cannot be tipped employees, however if they are 1099, then they are self employed (many taxi companies operate this way), and the employer does not have to comply with wage laws

Counter service people, cooks, busboys, cashiers, housekeepers...none of these people can be paid a tipped wage. The must be paid at least minimum wage up front.

How does tipping out apply to cooks busboys etc ? Interesting information by the way thanks .

 

[CaptainAmerica]

How does tipping out apply to cooks busboys etc ? Interesting information by the way thanks .

There's no universal rule. There's either a rule set by the specific location or it's just something the servers do on their own.

 

[englanddg]

Since I've got it on the brain...this will be my last addition, and this is the core of where the perception of being "underpaid" comes from. Again, I'm not making any political statement, just providing the whole picture.

While the average wage in FL for Waiters / Waitresses is 22,040 per annum, their take home is much less.

First, they have to pay for Federal Income Tax. If they are single with no dependants, this will be around $1328 in tax. Second, they need to pay 7.65% FICA (Social Security / Medicare). That's 1686.06. The employer pays the other half (7.65%) and employees never see that.

So, their net annual take home is 22040 - 1328 - 1686 = 19026, or about 1585.5 per month.

These numbers change when you start adding children. Lets say a young single mother with 1 child. It would look like this.

22040 + (3131) - 1686 = 23485 per annum. That's right, they actually MAKE money off taxes. That's due to tax credits such as CTC, EITC, etc.

However, how that really works in the real world is that they'll likely only have around the 1585.5 number (or something around that, depending on their withholding level they chose for their W-4) per monthly, and when they file their taxes they'll get a huge windfall of around 4500 as a tax "refund".

Now, if you consider an apartment average rent in Orlando is around $1000 (it could be less or more, I'm making a quick guess), then tack on $250 a month for utilities, $350 a month for car / insurance / etc... It isnt enough.

Of course there is a windfall of $4500 every spring when they file their taxes...which they tend to then go out and spend on new cars, electronics, and Walmart shopping sprees...not kidding, this is why first quarter retail sales ALWAYS spike in the US...it's this mass infusion of cash windfalls for lower income people).

And now, with ACA, they MUST purchase health insurance (even though state programs would cover their children...no children in the US go without health insurance...period, even before ACA). Lets say, after subsidy (because they would qualify) that comes out to $125 a month, so a total monthly expense of 1725 per month, and you'll hear stories of people working "2 and 3 jobs" to make ends meet. They are working 2 - 3 15 - 25 hour a week jobs, not working 80 - 120 hours per week as one may assume.

So, you can see why they feel economically pressured.

Most don't consider the whole picture, but there it is (in case you are curious).

 

[englanddg]

How does tipping out apply to cooks busboys etc ? Interesting information by the way thanks .

They must be paid minimum wage, at least. Some establishments will do a "tip out" where they'll take a portion of the tips earned by servers and distribute it among the cooks / busboys, but technically this is illegal.

 

[englanddg]

There's no universal rule. There's either a rule set by the specific location or it's just something the servers do on their own.

There is a universal law, it is just that some places ignore it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There is a universal law, it is just that some places ignore it.

I meant "there is no law that says you must tip out."

 

[englanddg]

I meant "there is no law that says you must tip out."

Ah, my bad. Yeah, its a shady thing. Not legal at all, but rarely enforced. Its not uncommon...

Normally the story goes:

Manager - You wouldnt have earned those tips today if it were not for the cooks and other staff helping the guest have a great experience, so you should give each one a dollar. Thats my suggestion.

The server, unaware this is illegal, generally comlplies and doesnt report it to anyone.

If caught, the manager is likely to say "I never forced them, I just suggested it." But, that is rare.

Like I said...shady practice.

 

[englanddg]

I should clarify, though, "tip pooling" is a more common practice, and is perfectly legal.

A tip pool is where the employer asks all tipped wage employees (and ONLY tipped wage employees) to pool a portion of their tips together, and then they distribute the tips back out among all the tipped employees as an average.

Employers CAN make you participate in this agreement as a term of employment (though can always choose not to work there) in most states (maybe all, I'm not sure...but I do know it's most).

However, the programs are severely limited. A tip pool must:
1) Meet what is considered "reasonable and customary" in terms of contribution
2) The employees must still make at least the state minimum wage after all tips have been redistributed
3) It is universally applied to all tipped employees (eg the bartenders can't have one tip pool and not share with the servers, or vice versa)
4) It is only distributed back out to tipped employees (not to bus boys, or cooks, or management)

A lot of places will call a Tip Pool, a "Tip Out", or even tip declaration "Tipping Out"...the terms vary and are considered in most of the industry interchangeable. I say this because you may work (or know someone who works) at a place that does a legal tip pool, but calls it a tip out.

So, don't confuse that statement with illegal activity when I used it. That varies a lot. But, a Tip Out, as I described it, is illegal. The tips, by law, belong to the employee, not the employer. However, the employee is required to declare the amount of tips they earned to their employer.

 

[bjlc57]

well I have been a BUS DRIVER.. and hauled a ton o luggage.. and cleaned puke, and leftovers.. because once you are on the bus .... you can just leave your mess for someone else to clean up.. and its an attitude that a whole ton of people share.. I have been treated greatly, respectfully and as RUDELY AS YOU COULD NEVER IMAGINE.. I can almost always tell you who tips, and who won't just by watching them.. the ONES WITH ALL THE BLING.. FORGET IT.. the hard workers , the gravel crushers.. YOU BET.. We tip the maids, the drivers, and people who GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to accommodate us.. and we don't have an extra dime in our pocket to do so.. BUT WE DO.. because GOOD SERVICE GETS REWARDED.. I always have a couple of singles in my pocket for a "CHICAGO HANDSHAKE".. you shake their hands, wish them well. .and its amazing of how people treat you later.. How you seem to be first.. or your room looks EXTRA NICE.. or there is a folded towel animal.. or what ever..

 

[bjlc57]

I can tell you that tipping helps.. one story not Disney related.. 20 plus years ago.. we were in Las Vegas.. to see Lance Burton.. there was this other younger " prettier' couple in front of us.. he had like four gold chains around his neck and she had bling from here to there.. The Captain comes by and asks "who has a reservation".. and I held up my hand with a folded bill in it.. He could see it but no one else could.. and as we walked.. he put his hand behind him.. and I slipped him a $5.. We only got the second best seats in the house.. and while we were sitting there. sipping our mandatory two drinks.. this couple was way behind us.. and she is HITTING HIM and pointing to US.. HOW COME THEY GOT SUCH GOOD SEATS..? .. the seats weren't bad 3/4's of the way of the show.. Lance was STANDING ON OUR TABLE>>. How he got there .. I don't know.. true tipping story..

 

[CaptainAmerica]

well I have been a BUS DRIVER.. and hauled a ton o luggage.. and cleaned puke, and leftovers.. because once you are on the bus .... you can just leave your mess for someone else to clean up.. and its an attitude that a whole ton of people share.. I have been treated greatly, respectfully and as RUDELY AS YOU COULD NEVER IMAGINE.. I can almost always tell you who tips, and who won't just by watching them.. the ONES WITH ALL THE BLING.. FORGET IT.. the hard workers , the gravel crushers.. YOU BET.. We tip the maids, the drivers, and people who GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to accommodate us.. and we don't have an extra dime in our pocket to do so.. BUT WE DO.. because GOOD SERVICE GETS REWARDED.. I always have a couple of singles in my pocket for a "CHICAGO HANDSHAKE".. you shake their hands, wish them well. .and its amazing of how people treat you later.. How you seem to be first.. or your room looks EXTRA NICE.. or there is a folded towel animal.. or what ever..

It's funny that you mentioned the folded animal towel because on this last trip we forgot to tip the first two nights and got pretty basic Mickey ears towels but then when we remember to start leaving a few dollars behind, the animals got progressively more elaborate, including one they made with my daughter's blanket and a pretty funny "scene" they made with towel animals and some of the plushes we had purchased.

 

[George]

I can tell you that tipping helps.. one story not Disney related.. 20 plus years ago.. we were in Las Vegas.. to see Lance Burton.. there was this other younger " prettier' couple in front of us.. he had like four gold chains around his neck and she had bling from here to there.. The Captain comes by and asks "who has a reservation".. and I held up my hand with a folded bill in it.. He could see it but no one else could.. and as we walked.. he put his hand behind him.. and I slipped him a $5.. We only got the second best seats in the house.. and while we were sitting there. sipping our mandatory two drinks.. this couple was way behind us.. and she is HITTING HIM and pointing to US.. HOW COME THEY GOT SUCH GOOD SEATS..? .. the seats weren't bad 3/4's of the way of the show.. Lance was STANDING ON OUR TABLE>>. How he got there .. I don't know.. true tipping story..

It's funny that you mentioned the folded animal towel because on this last trip we forgot to tip the first two nights and got pretty basic Mickey ears towels but then when we remember to start leaving a few dollars behind, the animals got progressively more elaborate, including one they made with my daughter's blanket and a pretty funny "scene" they made with towel animals and some of the plushes we had purchased.

I will say, if you've got an extra few bucks and can do it, tipping well makes life so much easier. You'll get all kinds of extra help, perks, and better service. There is an old movie where a character checks into a hotel, rips $100 dollar bill and half, gives it to one of the hotel employees and says, "if my stay is pleasant, you'll get the other half". If you ever tip a bus or shuttle drive at an airport, you'd be amazed at how they open up and give you all kinds of advice and help. If you're a regular at a restaurant you'd be wowed at how you get served if you tip just a little better than average. Even at a place like Disney, the kids have gotten stickers, balloons, extra character time, time set aside for serious pin trading, etc. when the tip is noted as we're getting up.

Years ago, I asked my dad why he tipped well. He said, "I worked as a waiter for a while and I then realized that some spare change was worth a LOT more to me at the time than the patrons. I've always kept that in mind."

 

[draybook]

They might not link individual tables to how much that table tipped, but they still know in the back of their mind that, in general, better service means better tips.

Though I think restaurants are a poor example anyways because 15% to 20% has become pretty much automatic. Even terrible service is probably going to yield a 15% tip, minimum. In that regard I think we need MORE tipping, not less. Zero tip for poor service and 30% for excellent service or something like that.

With the prices charged at Disney's eateries I will pass on the 30% suggestion.

 

[draybook]

To add to @englanddg's point, I worked valet at the Grand Casino in Tunica and we were supposed to pool our tips. Not only did we not pool them, but some colorful "ssuggestions" were dropped into the tip box. Pooling tips led to some folks being lazy, as they knew they were supposed to get a cut of the money with little or no effort.

That being said, I've been dying to know how much the average server at WDW brings home.

 

[EOD K9]

My two cents, I tip DME a dollar per bag as I always haul my luggage. If I use bell services, same rules apply. This also applies to resort check in. We tend not to use the sky caps. Mousekeeping also gets a dollar per day per person.
When we cruise, we take care of our servers and state room hosts. I do agree though with a poster's point though, we pay a lot. Why pay more? Also, where does it stop? I don't keep a can on my cruiser asking for tips and my K9 partner doesn't keep his bowl out asking for milk bones.

 

[mergatroid]

For those of you who stay at the resorts and use the magic express transportation, do you tip the sky cap prior to your departure from the resort? Anyone else at the resorts you tip? Housekeeping, concierge, bus driver, etc?

Hey look folks, it's Mr Pink