News Tickets with Pre Selected Fast Passes

[flynnibus]

What do you think are the chances that we see packages similar to this in the (not so distant) future with much better line-ups for an added fee? Maybe a "Toy Story Land" one day pass that guarantees you Fast Passes to the three Toy Story Land attractions or a Galaxy's Edge one day pass that guarantees you Fast Passes to the two Galaxy's Edge attractions (plus Star Tours)? Obviously, both would be the cost of a standard one day pass with a pretty sizable premium added. I'd imagine selling such a pass would be a VERY hot commodity when Star Wars Land opens...

It's exactly what you'll see. Anyone who writes this off because they go 'hrmph... none of these attractions matter' are missing the STRUCTURE Disney is rolling out here.

I'm sure some of this is about minimizing the up-front complexity for short-timers... but it lays the ground work to put in the upsells. It sets the 'baseline' offer, and you then introduce the upgraded offer..

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Unless you're in the park the same day as these One-Day Ticketholders. Those pre-reserved FP+s are coming out of the stock of FP+s you would have coming to you after you use your first three.

No different than if the tickets weren't pre-loaded with FastPasses, and those ticket holders were selecting FastPasses on their own.

In fact, it's better in the sense that those pre-selections are driving those guests away from choosing more popular FP options.

 

[larryz]

No different than if the tickets weren't pre-loaded with FastPasses, and those ticket holders were selecting FastPasses on their own.

In fact, it's better in the sense that those pre-selections are driving those guests away from choosing more popular FP options.

Yeah, but there's still a number of people who never even make FP+ selections... this ticket is taking away that factor.

 

[MrPromey]

True, but I can still stand on my lawn and yell at clouds. And message boards.

Touché!

(Carry on)

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yeah, but there's still a number of people who never even make FP+ selections... this ticket is taking away that factor.

They have different packages to choose from. And if they don't like them, they can still buy the no-FP day-ticket. Nothing's really being forced on anyone. There's just new options, and like many optional packages, they may not be offering what you want.

 

[MrPromey]

Fifteen years ago you had to be at a park at rope drop and quite literally run to snag a FP for a headliner and it might be that evening, forcing you to schedule your day around a little sheet of paper you have no control over.

To be fair, for a lot of people, if you want to ride a headliner that has opened within the last 15 years without unrealistic waits, you often still have to run at rope drop and unlike the old days, your whole family has to run with you.

Not blaming FP+ for all of that but it is at least a small part of it.

 

[seabreezept813]

I think there is probably a significant portion of people who go to the MK or one of the other parks for the traditional wienie picture and a picture with Mickey. It’s like a box they get to check for fulfilling either a parental obligation or Americanization type of obligation. This type of guest just doesn’t know how to max out a ticket or see all attractions and will prob leave the park relieved that they’ve met the obligation or feeling meh towards the experience. This type of ticket might ensure a better time for that guest at minimal impact to everyone else. Just guessing/theorizing based on people I know who have fit this kind of profile.

 

[AndyS2992]

How are they ridiculous? You're buying a one day ticket the day before and you're only paying face value. Your options are "crap fastpasses" or "no fastpasses." Not sure why the "crap fastpasses" option is ridiculous.

They are ridiculous because as you said so yourself, the attractions on offer here do not require Fastpasses as they have short lines most of the time anyway when you can potentially buy a standard ticket and possibly snag three FPs for actual good rides, they most likely will all be for times much later in the day but you’d still have three good ones compared to the prepicked ones.

 

[Tom Morrow]

This has been disproven time and time again. It's a myth that gets repeated over and over by people who don't understand queuing theory. Yes, eliminating FastPass increases the speed at which standby lines move. But it would also equally increase the number of people in those standby lines because those people are no longer in the FastPass lines.

The Fastpass model allows for more people than could ever physically be in front of you in one single queue to ride before you. Disney distributes enough Fastpasses to account for 75-80% of each attraction's hourly capacity. However, Fastpass holders do not all return at the start of their return window, so you have a constantly rolling return time allotment that creates huge surges of Fastpass holders that have to be accommodated for. In order to insure these guests still have a short wait time, often the ride's hourly capacity is increased to 90 or 95% Fastpass priority.

You can argue that the guests who have Fastpasses would fill up the standby queue and make it longer, but not all of them would be in line physically ahead of you, and that line would move 80% faster.

 

[Chicagoshannon2]

There are still people that don't realize FP is free. I was talking to one just last week. This option would probably look really good to those people.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The Fastpass model allows for more people than could ever physically be in front of you in one single queue to ride before you. Disney distributes enough Fastpasses to account for 75-80% of each attraction's hourly capacity. However, Fastpass holders do not all return at the start of their return window, so you have a constantly rolling return time allotment that creates huge surges of Fastpass holders that have to be accommodated for. In order to insure these guests still have a short wait time, often the ride's hourly capacity is increased to 90 or 95% Fastpass priority.

You can argue that the guests who have Fastpasses would fill up the standby queue and make it longer, but not all of them would be in line physically ahead of you, and that line would move 80% faster.

View attachment 282656

No. Completely wrong. It only works like that if there's only one ride in the park. Every single ride has its own set of green dots and when you take FP+ away, they're all competing for the same standby spots. Your model also completely ignores the fact that YOU get to be one of the green dots at least three times a day.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Fastpass is almost 100% detrimental to the theme park experience. You have to use it to experience the same number of attractions as you would if it didn't exist at all. It exists because it "allows" guests more time to spend money in the shops and restaurants. It's also the default solution to please upset guests. While it is indeed nice to have a few select guaranteed short waits, that is at the expense of all other lines being artificially inflated and inching along.

If it was actually a huge benefit to guests, would it be offered for free? Nope. But Disney needs people to buy into the lie and believe that the system is purely beneficial for them. IE, many people believe that riding an attraction using a Fastpass puts you in the minority percentage of that ride's ridership, but in fact the vast majority of seats are filled with Fastpass holders.

Perfect example. Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. Get in line right before the park closes, so no more Fastpass holders will be entering. Wait through the entire full queue. Lol board in 25 minutes. Same with Frozen. Same with Flight of Passage (okay, 45 minutes instead of 2 hours).

Example 2. Every attraction that didn't didn't have Fastpass under the old model that had notoriously short waits now regularly have 45 minute waits. Yes, the parks have seen an increase in attendance since the implementation of Fastpass+, but that doesn't account for everything.

 

[dvitali]

Is there any clue that this a way for Disney to control outlets sales, by giving customer something extra if they buy their tickets at the park instead at these outlets along I4?

 

[durangojim]

Not a bad idea for people who are only interested in visiting Disney for one day and don’t want any hassle.

 

[durangojim]

To be fair, for a lot of people, if you want to ride a headliner that has opened within the last 15 years without unrealistic waits, you often still have to run at rope drop and unlike the old days, your whole family has to run with you.

Not blaming FP+ for all of that but it is at least a small part of it.

We’re forntunate in that we go once or twice a year. That means we choose the main rides we want to make sure we get on and then don’t worry about the ones we don’t. I used to be the runner of the family, constantly leaving my wife and kids to go get FPs when the time was right. I love FP+ because I don’t have to do that any more and we no longer have to get up early on our vacations. To me the new system is great.

 

[Mickey5150]

I can see these tickets as a way to get business guests that just happen to be at a WDW or Disney Spring hotel into a park on a free day. Easier to convince someone to spend $100 when they can "skip" 3 lines.

 

[Walt d]

Agree completely. To me, it's akin to the people who say that all there is to at at Walt Disney World is crappy fast food. Then when you ask them where they ate, they say The Lunching Pad, Pizzafari, and Electric Umbrella.


People who buy one-day park tickets a day in advance aren't exactly planners. They likely wouldn't have anything at all if not for this option.

I dont want to have to think what i need to do, i would rather just let it happen. Than i need to do this now. Then go over there next Etc,

 

[mikejs78]

in the days before ADRs

ADRs have been around for decades.

Fifteen years ago, no one had to reserve rides months in advance

Fifteen years ago the crowd levels weren't nearly as high as they are now.

Fastpass places you in multiple queues at once. If everyone got one fastpass at a time and standby was eliminated completely, THEN it wouldn’t be effecting wait times.

This "multiple queue" nonsense has no mathematical or theoretical basis in queing theory.

What it had were waits that ebbed and flowed - one line too long? Find another. And a lot of great rides that now always have lines were walk-ons.

There's no doubt we experience far fewer attractions now than we did in 1999 when we started visiting the parks regularly.

Well, yes. In 1999, MK hosted 15.2 million guests. In 2016, it hosted 20.4 million guests. That's nearly a 35% increase. So of course you'll experience far fewer attractions. And you'd probably experience even fewer (or at least fewer of the ones you really want) if not for FP+.

Disney distributes enough Fastpasses to account for 75-80% of each attraction's hourly capacity.

Where did you pull that bogus stat from?

The Fastpass model allows for more people than could ever physically be in front of you in one single queue to ride before you.

Yet another baseless assertion. Lines we're getting long in the late 90s and guest satisfaction was going downhill, all before FP. In fact, the original FP system was designed specifically to combat this increase in lines and dissatisfaction. Try again.

 

[Biff215]

Well, yes. In 1999, MK hosted 15.2 million guests. In 2016, it hosted 20.4 million guests. That's nearly a 35% increase. So of course you'll experience far fewer attractions. And you'd probably experience even fewer (or at least fewer of the ones you really want) if not for FP+.

But that’s because capacity wasn’t increased as attendance climbed. If the billions of dollars spent on FP+ were instead spent on attractions, maybe we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But that’s water under the bridge now.

 

[Casper Gutman]

This "multiple queue" nonsense has no mathematical or theoretical basis in queing theory.

You say this repeatedly and then don’t explain your claim. Instead of just waving about “queuing theory” like it’s something everyone should be immeadiately familiar with, perhaps you could explain it.

Without FP: person A is in 50th in line for Tower of Terror. Person B is 100th in line for Rock n Roller coaster. A is the 50th person to ride ToT and then gets into line behind B at RnR. B is the 100th to ride RnR. A rides some time after that.

With FP: A now has a FP for RnR. He rides RnR and then goes to ToT. Because of his FP, A rides before B. B is no longer 100th to ride RnR - he is at least 101st. A has made two lines longer - he has increased the wait for people in two lines. It is as though he has been waiting in both lines.

Now, this is a gross simplification of the complicated actual situation and I fully accept that my logic might be flawed. But I’d like to know why it’s flawed, not simply be told it is.

Also, ADRs have long existed in the sense that you could arrange a restaurant reservation on the day of the meal. ADRs that can be arranged 90 days in advance and policies that see WDW staffing according to the number of ADRs, thus making walk-in availability even scarcer, is relatively new.