PiratesMansion
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. I could have sworn in that Jungle Cruise thread on this side of the boards it was said that the park (or the attraction, at least) was going to reopen with the changes in place. Perhaps not then.
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Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion
- Thread starter Californian Elitist
- Start date
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I don’t think they’ll make it a big thing but I think they will do something subtle and have more merch available.
Surferboy567
Well-Known Member
Agreed
EDIT: As many have said perhaps they don’t make a big deal about it, but even that maybe bad PR.
SteveAZee
Premium Member
I suppose it depends also on whether or not there is active, public pressure going on to make the changes, or if it's more a proactive thing on Disney's part. I get the sense that it's the latter, so perhaps that lets them take their time?
I believe it's been said California would be a 12 month overhaul. I'll track that post down
lol i dont consider the pirate auction scene replacement to be a disaster at all, in fact I think its a good move
Im fine with Pixar Pier and I hope they continue the theme and replace mermaid with a coco themed darkride
and im really looking forward to PatF because that movie is great and takes place in LA so it should fit in great
but Im prob in the minority on this site haha
Im fine with Pixar Pier and I hope they continue the theme and replace mermaid with a coco themed darkride
and im really looking forward to PatF because that movie is great and takes place in LA so it should fit in great
but Im prob in the minority on this site haha
I think this is pretty much what we can expect from California's retheme
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Finally got to the Critter Country section of my “Art of Disneyland” book. Great book btw that I think @SuddenStorm has too? Anyway, some of the text under the artwork really stood out to me....
The imagineers tried to create a fully dimensional attraction grounded in reality but with the feel of an animated cartoon. “In a cartoon, you paint to blend everything together. “ Tony Baxter explains. “The backgrounds are painted and then you add painted characters on top of those backgrounds. We tried to do the same thing here.”
IMO this is the kind of attention to detail and awareness/ understanding of the craft that’s missing from WDI these days. Tony using art as an example also reminds me of the 1st generation of WED imagineers/ artists that were the obvious choice to build Disneyland because of their artistic ability to tell a story visually. They really nailed it with Splash Mountain. You have the exterior that fits in beautifully with the ROA and west side of the park. On the Inside you have the cartoon characters and more cartoony fantasy based scenery. Only after the nice mellow beginning of the ride that is still an extension of the more reality based facade do we splash into the fantasy world kind of like leaving the Bayou in POTC and into the caverns. I’ve never really thought about it this way but Critter Country is the Fantasyland of the West side of the park and they walk the line beautifully. Compare that to the Frog Mountain concept art where see a cartoon boat on top of Chikapin Hill. Now I know all of that glitter in the concept art is probably artistic liberty but after seeing the new Sleeping Beauty Castle can we put it past them? In the same way, the are dropping the ball with the exterior on Snow Whites Enchanted Wish. The exterior previously felt like a real place in Europe. Now it feels like we re at the modern “Disneyfied” version of that place.
Is Disneyland becoming a parody of itself? Outside of the interior of the Fantasyland dark rides, Disneyland was built a place for guests to escape to different realities or fantasies. Now it seems the only place they want us to escape to is DISNEYland.
“We want everyone to think the ride is over with the drop,” says show producer Bruce Gordon, “But then they re-enter the show for the grand musical finale.”
This is the “going the extra mile” we rarely see these days. Shows how the imagineers really understood what guests want. They really nailed the concept of taking us an emotional journey on Splash Mountain with just songs and vignettes with no story (or Alberta Falls backstory) being shoved down our throats. Anyway, it’s going to be very sad to not have that final scene in Splash Mountain anymore. For something born in the second half of Disneyland’s life it really screams Disneyland more then just about anything. Whatever song from PatF they put there will not hit nearly the same as ZADD. There is a good chance most of the set dressing and staging stay the same. They may even keep the Zip A Dee Lady but just remove the name. Losing they soundtrack from the ride and the land are a huge loss.
The “Uncle Remus” tales as documented by Harris are a priceless contribution to Southern folklore, capturing the stories, speech, and culture of black people living in the South.... or at least it used to be like a year ago. Now it’s racist or problematic or whatever we re calling it. Somehow a European fairytale with a Black princess who is a frog for 90% of the movie is better.
The imagineers tried to create a fully dimensional attraction grounded in reality but with the feel of an animated cartoon. “In a cartoon, you paint to blend everything together. “ Tony Baxter explains. “The backgrounds are painted and then you add painted characters on top of those backgrounds. We tried to do the same thing here.”
IMO this is the kind of attention to detail and awareness/ understanding of the craft that’s missing from WDI these days. Tony using art as an example also reminds me of the 1st generation of WED imagineers/ artists that were the obvious choice to build Disneyland because of their artistic ability to tell a story visually. They really nailed it with Splash Mountain. You have the exterior that fits in beautifully with the ROA and west side of the park. On the Inside you have the cartoon characters and more cartoony fantasy based scenery. Only after the nice mellow beginning of the ride that is still an extension of the more reality based facade do we splash into the fantasy world kind of like leaving the Bayou in POTC and into the caverns. I’ve never really thought about it this way but Critter Country is the Fantasyland of the West side of the park and they walk the line beautifully. Compare that to the Frog Mountain concept art where see a cartoon boat on top of Chikapin Hill. Now I know all of that glitter in the concept art is probably artistic liberty but after seeing the new Sleeping Beauty Castle can we put it past them? In the same way, the are dropping the ball with the exterior on Snow Whites Enchanted Wish. The exterior previously felt like a real place in Europe. Now it feels like we re at the modern “Disneyfied” version of that place.
Is Disneyland becoming a parody of itself? Outside of the interior of the Fantasyland dark rides, Disneyland was built a place for guests to escape to different realities or fantasies. Now it seems the only place they want us to escape to is DISNEYland.
“We want everyone to think the ride is over with the drop,” says show producer Bruce Gordon, “But then they re-enter the show for the grand musical finale.”
This is the “going the extra mile” we rarely see these days. Shows how the imagineers really understood what guests want. They really nailed the concept of taking us an emotional journey on Splash Mountain with just songs and vignettes with no story (or Alberta Falls backstory) being shoved down our throats. Anyway, it’s going to be very sad to not have that final scene in Splash Mountain anymore. For something born in the second half of Disneyland’s life it really screams Disneyland more then just about anything. Whatever song from PatF they put there will not hit nearly the same as ZADD. There is a good chance most of the set dressing and staging stay the same. They may even keep the Zip A Dee Lady but just remove the name. Losing they soundtrack from the ride and the land are a huge loss.
The “Uncle Remus” tales as documented by Harris are a priceless contribution to Southern folklore, capturing the stories, speech, and culture of black people living in the South.... or at least it used to be like a year ago. Now it’s racist or problematic or whatever we re calling it. Somehow a European fairytale with a Black princess who is a frog for 90% of the movie is better.
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SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
Wow! Amazing post and book. Is that the Jeff Kurtti/Bruce Gordon one? I don't have it... and copies are quite expensive online. I do have that PDF scan of The Nickle Tour- in fact let me pull it up and find the Splash Mountain ones.
You nailed it with your commentary. For me, Splash Mountain has been there the entire time I've been alive. I've never known a Disneyland without it. I remember sitting out with some of my group while others went off to ride it when I was to short to ride it. I remember being terrified of the drop. I don't think my first ride was until third grade? Maybe fourth. But after that first ride I was hooked. I used to separate from my family to ride it single rider in like fifth grade.
Some attractions are easily replaceable- Pixie Hollow, half of Tomorrowland, Fantasyland Theater. But retheming Splash Mountain feels like sticking Elsa's Castle on the Matterhorn.
To build off of what you said about the importance of Disneyland being believable, here' a passage from The Nickel Tour.
"The Illusions at Disneyland are nothing more than a thin veneer- and it's one that can easily be scratched away. When it's gone, you lose that special sense of reality that makes any fantasy better"
If only WDI understood this. It's why I wish we had more outside vendors on Main Street- if integrated properly having real, tangible shops that aren't hawking Disney merchandise would help the theming of Main Street significantly.
It's part of why New Orleans Square was such an achievement- the entire land is believable. But when you walk into the unassuming building, there's a 15 minute boat ride with pirates. Completely hidden from view. The same applies to Haunted Mansion. Fantasyland's facades are very subdued considering the fantastical attractions they host- but that only increases the believability of what you experience inside. Indiana Jones is the same.
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“The “Uncle Remus” tales as documented by Harris are a priceless contribution to Southern folklore, capturing the stories, speech, and culture of black people living in the South....”
I would beg to differ. More like an appropriation of African folklore and a representation of an Uncle Tom version of an American black slave, one that was conveniently created by a white man.
Other than that, I agree that Imagineering is absolutely not the same and has gone down in quality starting years ago.
I would beg to differ. More like an appropriation of African folklore and a representation of an Uncle Tom version of an American black slave, one that was conveniently created by a white man.
Other than that, I agree that Imagineering is absolutely not the same and has gone down in quality starting years ago.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
I think this is what bugs me. If Splash Mountain was rethemed 5 years after it came out, I know that Imagineering would do it right. Now I can only expect very bright LED lighting, projection mapping, and a cheesy storyline.
Yep. My expectations for this new ride are quite low. I’m not expecting to like it very much, but we’ll see.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Thought experiment: Would modern guests be impressed with a brand new ride that only comprised the technology, design, theming, pacing, and experience that Splash Mountain provides?
In other words, do people give rides like Splash Mountain (or any of the classics) a pass because of nostalgia that they wouldn't give to a brand new ride?
I love the thoughtful design that went into the classic stuff, but I think attention spans have gotten shorter, entertainment has gotten dumber, and the audience has become, er––less sophisticated over the years.
Surferboy567
Well-Known Member
Definitely, yes in my opinion.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
Yes. Not every ride needs to be cutting edge technology. Walt Disney certainly understood this. As technology improved Walt did not feel the need to modernize each ride.
It's A Small World and Pirates of the Caribbean are complete different ends of the spectrum technology wise but came out around the same time. Small World is a simplistic stylized ride as if it were designed by children doing arts and crafts.
Pirates of the Caribbean has full figured humans doing realistic movements in detailed sets with realistic lighting and sounds.
Walt had the technology to make each figure a realistic human with their own distinct vocals, instead of dolls moving to one singular chorus track, but that's not what he did.
Furthermore, a key problem with modernizing each ride is that rides become too "samey". How many times does someone have to see projection mapping or 3D character figures with LED screen faces before the effect gets dull?
Meanwhile using lighting, colors, design, and aesthetics differently in each ride, can create vastly different experiences.
Heck people line up for both Peter Pan at WDW (not updated) and Disneyland (updated). I don't think people care all that much about technology, they just want something fun.
Splash Mountain came out at the same time as The Tower of Terror yet uses none of those effects, technology, and illusions. It's a children's cartoon, so simple plush animal animatronics work perfectly for the ride.
Disneyland is about taking you to other places, technology is a tool for this, but it isn't the only tool for it. Design is what's most important.
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dvclover15
Member
I don't think so. I think people actually crave real sets and animatronics. People get screens all the time at home and don't want more of those. I've hear a lot of bad feedback on the projection mapping animatronics for example. And people are OVER screens.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
For all the cost and technology of the projection mapped Seven Dwarves and Anna and Elsa, they just look so corny and fake. It's this character with a bright lit up animated face in a ride taking place with real sets.
Meanwhile a static Snow White figure looks normal and blends in properly with its surrounding.
Having all real sets and ONLY the face be animated of these characters, makes no sense.
It's like a bad Christmas lawn inflatable in terms
of lighting.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
These old rides still attract people. It’s pretty much making the same ridiculous argument that Disney executives made about traditional animation after the poor box office performance of The Princess and the Frog.
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
What's funny is all the popular T Shirts or merchandise sold in the parks and Disney stores are based on their classic 2D animated features.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Honestly asking: If guests don't care for high-tech rides, screens/projections, and in-depth backstories, why does Disney keep moving in that direction?
If the old rides still attract people, why do they update them (besides the social issues around Splash/Jungle Cruise/Pirates)? Why did they re-do/upgrade Snow White at DL (and replace it in MK with 7DMT)? Why add IP dolls to IASM? Why add the interactive nursery room to the queue of Peter Pan if people don't care about new technology? Serious question! Disney is a business––wouldn't it just be cheaper to just leave well enough alone?
I think if Disney opened a brand new ride that was just a ride through mechanical stuffed animals, catchy music, and some great drops, people would be disappointed. This is why they try to add a bunch of tech effects (MMRR, RotR, Frozen, Ratatouille, 7DMT, etc.) I could be wrong, but I suspect that Disney believes this, too.
Then why did they go to the trouble/expense of updating the classic rides? (Not talking about the insensitive scenes here.)
If people don't like screens, why is Disney including them on so many attractions?
I agree that the animated faces don't bend well enough with ride sets/scenes. But why does Disney continue to use the effect?
Are you saying that execs claimed that PatF didn't do as well as they'd liked because of audience attention spans/competing entertainment options/sophistication? I hadn't heard that.
If the old rides still attract people, why do they update them (besides the social issues around Splash/Jungle Cruise/Pirates)? Why did they re-do/upgrade Snow White at DL (and replace it in MK with 7DMT)? Why add IP dolls to IASM? Why add the interactive nursery room to the queue of Peter Pan if people don't care about new technology? Serious question! Disney is a business––wouldn't it just be cheaper to just leave well enough alone?
I think if Disney opened a brand new ride that was just a ride through mechanical stuffed animals, catchy music, and some great drops, people would be disappointed. This is why they try to add a bunch of tech effects (MMRR, RotR, Frozen, Ratatouille, 7DMT, etc.) I could be wrong, but I suspect that Disney believes this, too.