Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[DrAlice]

My point was this: The movie did fine AND it doesn't really matter how it did in the box office because people TODAY buy PATF stuff and get their kids Tiana make-overs. A whole lot of us still watch (and rewatch) the movie on Blu-Ray and Disney+. Tiana and Co. are popular with many fans and park-goers. I posted what I did because using exaggerated box office "failure" as justification for why this change shouldn't happen is silly. It's irrelevant to today.

Ok, I don't care about this argument enough to stick around this thread. Play nice, kiddies.

 

[Californian Elitist]

What do you think the motivation for the change is? Is it because Disney believes Princess and the Frog will generate more revenue than Splash Mountain? Possible. Is it more likely that Disney fears Song of the South is problematic and they need to remedy that? More likely. If that's the case, then Disney is pandering to those who are offended by representation of Song of the South in Splash Mountain, which I believe is mostly white liberals, not black Americans.

Could I be wrong? Sure, but it doesn't matter.

I’ve spoken on this many times in this thread. Feel free to read through it.

They’re not pandering to those offended by SotS. I would wager that most people who’ve ridden Splash have never even heard of the movie, let alone seen it. That flowery language is something that Disney always uses. This isn’t anything new.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Princess and the Frog

Budget: $105 Million plus advertising est. at $53 Million for a total of $158 Million.​

​

Box Office: $270 Million, half going to Disney: $135 Million​

Theatrical Loss: $23 Million​

​

DVD/Blu-Ray sales: $117 Million​

​

PPV digital sales and rentals: unknown​

​

Licensing income on premium and broadcast channels: unknown​

​

Merchandise sales: unknown​

While there are some unknowns, they only add to **the overall profit** of the movie thanks to DVD/Blu-Ray sales, which only increase that profit. Being made before the days of Disney+, the film would have gone through the normal post-theatrical windows, each giving an opportunity to make money on the film.

The Princess and the Frog : Disney Princess : Target

Princess stuff for your little princess. Shop Target for Disney Princess items at great prices. Free shipping on orders $35+ or free same-day pickup in store.

www.target.com

 

[smooch]

282 pages of discussion and it feels like some people haven't even been able to move on and accept the fact this retheme is happening and instead decide to go on tirades about how they thought the film flopped or that they personally didn't like it or that Disney bowed to the "woke mob." Hopefully we can go back to discussing what we expect from the ride itself, and hopefully we get more information relatively soon.

 

[D.Silentu]

To your point, I really hope they have something significant to share at D23 or else this thread will continue to chase its tail.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

To your point, I really hope they have something significant to share at D23 or else this thread will continue to chase its tail.

On that note, assuming there is a great deal of concept art and scale models developed to share at the Parks pavilion at D23 it might be wise to have a preview center mocked up (sooner rather than later) at either the opera house or in NoS showing off the concept and reintroducing the Tiana character. Similar to Blue Sky Cellar but at Disneyland proper. Ideally with a “drop in” from Tony Baxter as well as more detailed concepts and video interviews/intros with Charita Carter and the team.

They could even do some “countdown to Mardi Gras” themed giveaways, pins, items etc. Since this retheme is obviously still a controversial topic among the fandom I think it might be good to lean into the PR on this in a way that builds some goodwill and celebrates and reintroduces the IP particularly while Splash is under heavy construction/scaffolds for a year or two.

It seems they may have already missed an opportunity to promote the new Toon Town more within the park with the exception of a few wall decorations and think that in park preview centers are an inexpensive way to market new additions.

 

[Brer Panther]

Okay, two things here...

1) I am not disagreeing that The Princess and the Frog is a great movie or that it deserves a ride. I have nothing against the film. But it still wasn't as big a success as Disney hoped it would. Just sayin'. Granted, I think they brushed off Big Hero 6 as a box office disappointment too, so...

2) Why is everyone so quick to assume that Disney has good intentions? Why are we immediately assuming that they're telling the truth about the retheme being "in the works for a year"? We have no proof of either one. Modern Disney has done sleazy and problematic things. Launching a smear campaign against a puppeteer they fired for taking issue with the way they were handing the Muppets franchise, filming a movie near a concentration camp and THANKING that concentration camp for it, shutting down an animation studio and yet continuing to profit off their work by making sequels to their films without their involvement... heck, @Dear Prudence listed a bunch of problematic things they've done recently. What makes us all so quick to believe that Disney is doing this because they're genuinely concerned somebody is offended by Splash Mountain?

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Okay, two things here...

1) I am not disagreeing that The Princess and the Frog is a great movie or that it deserves a ride. I have nothing against the film. But it still wasn't as big a success as Disney hoped it would. Just sayin'. Granted, I think they brushed off Big Hero 6 as a box office disappointment too, so...

2) Why is everyone so quick to assume that Disney has good intentions? Why are we immediately assuming that they're telling the truth about the retheme being "in the works for a year"? We have no proof of either one. Modern Disney has done sleazy and problematic things. Launching a smear campaign against a puppeteer they fired for taking issue with the way they were handing the Muppets franchise, filming a movie near a concentration camp and THANKING that concentration camp for it, shutting down an animation studio and yet continuing to profit off their work by making sequels to their films without their involvement... heck, @Dear Prudence listed a bunch of problematic things they've done recently. What makes us all so quick to believe that Disney is doing this because they're genuinely concerned somebody is offended by Splash Mountain?

Coming out of the shadows for two seconds to address this. Using SOTS as the theme for Splash Mountain was controversial within WDI when the ride was being created in the 80's. They knew then it was a risky proposition and made the choice to proceed anyway. This is well documented, ask Tony!

I can 100% confirm the retheme for Splash has been in active development for a long time. I don't know exactly when it was first pitched, but by the time it was announced in 2020, it was a developed concept that had been actively worked on for at least a year. You don't have to believe me, but that doesn't change that it's true.

A broad initiative has been in the works for some time (I first heard about it in 2018) to identify parts of the parks that could be improved from an inclusion standpoint. Many, many proposals have come out of this initiative - some have been canned (the Main Street retheme - take a look at the Magic Happens float concept art!), others have already been implemented (Jungle Cruise), and some are yet to come (the jury is still out on how the Native American scene in Peter Pan's Flight can be altered). There are other ones in the works you haven't heard about yet, and you may at D23! Or you may not! Fun!

Does this mean the entire company is now unable to commit problematic acts? Nope! It just means that there is a task force in WDI working on fixing potentially problematic issues within the parks.

Regardless of how anyone feels about these changes, they are happening, and they have been in the works for a long time. The timing of the announcement for Splash was definitely done to take advantage of the climate at the time so that the company could look in-step with public opinion. That's called PR! Big companies attempt to engage in it all time!

So you can either accept the chorus of insiders who know that the project predates its announcement, or you can continue to question it. And luckily for you, OLC is not going to pay to retheme their Splash Mountain, so the ride will continue to exist despite Disney's best efforts.

Okay, back to my cave now!

 

[smooch]

On that note, assuming there is a great deal of concept art and scale models developed to share at the Parks pavilion at D23 it might be wise to have a preview center mocked up (sooner rather than later) at either the opera house or in NoS showing off the concept and reintroducing the Tiana character. Similar to Blue Sky Cellar but at Disneyland proper. Ideally with a “drop in” from Tony Baxter as well as more detailed concepts and video interviews/intros with Charita Carter and the team.

They could even do some “countdown to Mardi Gras” themed giveaways, pins, items etc. Since this retheme is obviously still a controversial topic among the fandom I think it might be good to lean into the PR on this in a way that builds some goodwill and celebrates and reintroduces the IP particularly while Splash is under heavy construction/scaffolds for a year or two.

It seems they may have already missed an opportunity to promote the new Toon Town more within the park with the exception of a few wall decorations and think that in park preview centers are an inexpensive way to market new additions.

I wish they had a model somewhere in the parks eventually to show off their design and to build hype for the retheme. Somewhere in NOS could be a good place to set it up and would be cool to take a peek at.

Okay, two things here...

1) I am not disagreeing that The Princess and the Frog is a great movie or that it deserves a ride. I have nothing against the film. But it still wasn't as big a success as Disney hoped it would. Just sayin'. Granted, I think they brushed off Big Hero 6 as a box office disappointment too, so...

2) Why is everyone so quick to assume that Disney has good intentions? Why are we immediately assuming that they're telling the truth about the retheme being "in the works for a year"? We have no proof of either one. Modern Disney has done sleazy and problematic things. Launching a smear campaign against a puppeteer they fired for taking issue with the way they were handing the Muppets franchise, filming a movie near a concentration camp and THANKING that concentration camp for it, shutting down an animation studio and yet continuing to profit off their work by making sequels to their films without their involvement... heck, @Dear Prudence listed a bunch of problematic things they've done recently. What makes us all so quick to believe that Disney is doing this because they're genuinely concerned somebody is offended by Splash Mountain?

I don't remember anyone claiming Disney is a morally good company here, people are just defending the fact that Disney chose to do this retheme, while admitting they rushed the announcement to coincide with the BLM movement at the start of the pandemic. Disney is a bad company, they have done awful things and are making awful choices. I loved ToT and then it was rethemed to GotG and I was sad but I moved on and accepted that it was happening. I also love Splash, and am sad it will be going away as well, but I have accepted it and Disney's reasoning why. It sounds like a majority of Disney movies they release are box office disappointments, why should Disney create any ride without a proven IP to generate interest, then? There can be a good ride based on a bad movie or vice versa, no need to get so caught up in the reasoning for this retheme existing. We've discussed this already, hundreds of times.

 

[Californian Elitist]

@GiveMeTheMusic Don’t leave me, pleeeaaassseeee!

 

[mickEblu]

Coming out of the shadows for two seconds to address this. Using SOTS as the theme for Splash Mountain was controversial within WDI when the ride was being created in the 80's. They knew then it was a risky proposition and made the choice to proceed anyway. This is well documented, ask Tony!

I can 100% confirm the retheme for Splash has been in active development for a long time. I don't know exactly when it was first pitched, but by the time it was announced in 2020, it was a developed concept that had been actively worked on for at least a year. You don't have to believe me, but that doesn't change that it's true.

A broad initiative has been in the works for some time (I first heard about it in 2018) to identify parts of the parks that could be improved from an inclusion standpoint. Many, many proposals have come out of this initiative - some have been canned (the Main Street retheme - take a look at the Magic Happens float concept art!), others have already been implemented (Jungle Cruise), and some are yet to come (the jury is still out on how the Native American scene in Peter Pan's Flight can be altered). There are other ones in the works you haven't heard about yet, and you may at D23! Or you may not! Fun!

Does this mean the entire company is now unable to commit problematic acts? Nope! It just means that there is a task force in WDI working on fixing potentially problematic issues within the parks.

Regardless of how anyone feels about these changes, they are happening, and they have been in the works for a long time. The timing of the announcement for Splash was definitely done to take advantage of the climate at the time so that the company could look in-step with public opinion. That's called PR! Big companies attempt to engage in it all time!

So you can either accept the chorus of insiders who know that the project predates its announcement, or you can continue to question it. And luckily for you, OLC is not going to pay to retheme their Splash Mountain, so the ride will continue to exist despite Disney's best efforts.

Okay, back to my cave now!

Welcome Back! Wait! Don’t run away yet. Lol.

Makes me sick to think they even considered retheming Main Street. As far as what’s to come that we haven’t heard of I’m assuming you mean Pan, Enchanted Tiki Room and Lincoln? What’s left? Hanging man in HM?

 

[Dear Prudence]

On that note, assuming there is a great deal of concept art and scale models developed to share at the Parks pavilion at D23 it might be wise to have a preview center mocked up (sooner rather than later) at either the opera house or in NoS showing off the concept and reintroducing the Tiana character. Similar to Blue Sky Cellar but at Disneyland proper. Ideally with a “drop in” from Tony Baxter as well as more detailed concepts and video interviews/intros with Charita Carter and the team.

They could even do some “countdown to Mardi Gras” themed giveaways, pins, items etc. Since this retheme is obviously still a controversial topic among the fandom I think it might be good to lean into the PR on this in a way that builds some goodwill and celebrates and reintroduces the IP particularly while Splash is under heavy construction/scaffolds for a year or two.

It seems they may have already missed an opportunity to promote the new Toon Town more within the park with the exception of a few wall decorations and think that in park preview centers are an inexpensive way to market new additions.

The Mardi Gras thing sort of still vaguely weirds me out because it's not only a real holiday, it's a holiday with very specific religious significance. Even THE Mardi Gras in NOLA for as debaucherously celebrated as it is still so very steeped in Catholicism. Something like Christmas, for example, has basically become (re)secularized, but Mardi Gras is still very, very specifically Catholic. It starts on the Epiphany (Three Kings Day) and goes until Ash Wednesday. Even the purple, green, and gold have specific meaning. The green literally represents "faith." Lent starts the next day. I know that most people see it as being this completely secularized slosh fest, but it's not really that at all, lol. (I am not knocking your marketing ideas--again, they should honestly consider hiring you--, but I don't know... how they're going to circumnavigate this all lol.

 

[D.Silentu]

I can 100% confirm the retheme for Splash has been in active development for a long time.

Admittedly I took Disney's word on this with a grain of salt, so I appreciate your affirmation.

Goodbye, GiveMeTheMusic. Don't stay away too long!​

 

[180º]

Coming out of the shadows for two seconds to address this. Using SOTS as the theme for Splash Mountain was controversial within WDI when the ride was being created in the 80's. They knew then it was a risky proposition and made the choice to proceed anyway. This is well documented, ask Tony!

I can 100% confirm the retheme for Splash has been in active development for a long time. I don't know exactly when it was first pitched, but by the time it was announced in 2020, it was a developed concept that had been actively worked on for at least a year. You don't have to believe me, but that doesn't change that it's true.

A broad initiative has been in the works for some time (I first heard about it in 2018) to identify parts of the parks that could be improved from an inclusion standpoint. Many, many proposals have come out of this initiative - some have been canned (the Main Street retheme - take a look at the Magic Happens float concept art!), others have already been implemented (Jungle Cruise), and some are yet to come (the jury is still out on how the Native American scene in Peter Pan's Flight can be altered). There are other ones in the works you haven't heard about yet, and you may at D23! Or you may not! Fun!

Does this mean the entire company is now unable to commit problematic acts? Nope! It just means that there is a task force in WDI working on fixing potentially problematic issues within the parks.

Regardless of how anyone feels about these changes, they are happening, and they have been in the works for a long time. The timing of the announcement for Splash was definitely done to take advantage of the climate at the time so that the company could look in-step with public opinion. That's called PR! Big companies attempt to engage in it all time!

So you can either accept the chorus of insiders who know that the project predates its announcement, or you can continue to question it. And luckily for you, OLC is not going to pay to retheme their Splash Mountain, so the ride will continue to exist despite Disney's best efforts.

Okay, back to my cave now!

Aaaaaaaaaand /thread.

 

[Disney Irish]

Coming out of the shadows for two seconds to address this. Using SOTS as the theme for Splash Mountain was controversial within WDI when the ride was being created in the 80's. They knew then it was a risky proposition and made the choice to proceed anyway. This is well documented, ask Tony!

I can 100% confirm the retheme for Splash has been in active development for a long time. I don't know exactly when it was first pitched, but by the time it was announced in 2020, it was a developed concept that had been actively worked on for at least a year. You don't have to believe me, but that doesn't change that it's true.

A broad initiative has been in the works for some time (I first heard about it in 2018) to identify parts of the parks that could be improved from an inclusion standpoint. Many, many proposals have come out of this initiative - some have been canned (the Main Street retheme - take a look at the Magic Happens float concept art!), others have already been implemented (Jungle Cruise), and some are yet to come (the jury is still out on how the Native American scene in Peter Pan's Flight can be altered). There are other ones in the works you haven't heard about yet, and you may at D23! Or you may not! Fun!

Does this mean the entire company is now unable to commit problematic acts? Nope! It just means that there is a task force in WDI working on fixing potentially problematic issues within the parks.

Regardless of how anyone feels about these changes, they are happening, and they have been in the works for a long time. The timing of the announcement for Splash was definitely done to take advantage of the climate at the time so that the company could look in-step with public opinion. That's called PR! Big companies attempt to engage in it all time!

So you can either accept the chorus of insiders who know that the project predates its announcement, or you can continue to question it. And luckily for you, OLC is not going to pay to retheme their Splash Mountain, so the ride will continue to exist despite Disney's best efforts.

Okay, back to my cave now!

First, welcome back. Hope you stay active, I know I speak for all of us when we say we miss your posts.

Second, thanks for confirming what a lot of us have been saying for a long time.

 

[Consumer]

Retheming Main Street USA? What moron came up with that idea? So glad that fell through.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Coming out of the shadows for two seconds to address this. Using SOTS as the theme for Splash Mountain was controversial within WDI when the ride was being created in the 80's. They knew then it was a risky proposition and made the choice to proceed anyway. This is well documented, ask Tony!

I can 100% confirm the retheme for Splash has been in active development for a long time. I don't know exactly when it was first pitched, but by the time it was announced in 2020, it was a developed concept that had been actively worked on for at least a year. You don't have to believe me, but that doesn't change that it's true.

A broad initiative has been in the works for some time (I first heard about it in 2018) to identify parts of the parks that could be improved from an inclusion standpoint. Many, many proposals have come out of this initiative - some have been canned (the Main Street retheme - take a look at the Magic Happens float concept art!), others have already been implemented (Jungle Cruise), and some are yet to come (the jury is still out on how the Native American scene in Peter Pan's Flight can be altered). There are other ones in the works you haven't heard about yet, and you may at D23! Or you may not! Fun!

Does this mean the entire company is now unable to commit problematic acts? Nope! It just means that there is a task force in WDI working on fixing potentially problematic issues within the parks.

Regardless of how anyone feels about these changes, they are happening, and they have been in the works for a long time. The timing of the announcement for Splash was definitely done to take advantage of the climate at the time so that the company could look in-step with public opinion. That's called PR! Big companies attempt to engage in it all time!

So you can either accept the chorus of insiders who know that the project predates its announcement, or you can continue to question it. And luckily for you, OLC is not going to pay to retheme their Splash Mountain, so the ride will continue to exist despite Disney's best efforts.

Okay, back to my cave now!

So how do you know all of this? The reason I am asking is because this IS the internet and people can say whatever they want.

 

[smooch]

I hadn't heard about the Main Street retheme proposal, I checked out the parade concept art and only really saw the buildings were recolored / it didn't show much other detail. Was there any more information about what this retheme was supposed to be? I am assuming something that focused more on Disney characters / properties than turn of the century Missouri?

 

[Brer Panther]

With all due respect towards @GiveMeTheMusic, I'm still skeptical that this was in the works since 2018. Mainly because I've heard so much conflicting information regarding the retheme from "insiders" (it's cancelled! No, wait, it's still on! No, wait, is IS cancelled! It WAS in the works for a year! No, it wasn't, it was greenlit because they were afraid of a Disney+ boycott!) that from now on I'm just going to take anything of the claims on here with a grain of salt.

And I still highly doubt it's just a coincidence that Frederick Chambers just so happened to post the exact same idea for a retheme of Splash Mountain - clearly before any actual plans were drafted or they had any sort of idea when they'd be starting the retheme - that just so happened to cause a campaign online to get the attraction rethemed to The Princess and the Frog that Disney had. It actually lends credence to the theory that Disney orchestrated the "outrage" regarding Splash Mountain so people wouldn't be upset that they were replacing such a popular ride. Or Chambers just so happened to find out about the plans for the retheme and decided to post them, claiming that he came up with them himself, in an attempt to get internet fame and/or so that Disney would announce it early.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So how do you know all of this? The reason I am asking is because this IS the internet and people can say whatever they want.

You weren’t a forum member when GMtM was active years ago, but they are a trusted insider here. I’m not sure where they get their information, but they have a great track record. Before leaving the forums, they let us know that Runaway Railroad was coming, I want to say a few months prior to the official announcement (gonna have to check the thread).