Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[Dear Prudence]

Irrelevant to the current conversation, which is the difference between dialect and a slur.

Like didn't I just say a few pages back that I get so sick and tired of people straight up inventing stuff?

 

[Brer Panther]

If you can set aside your own feelings for a moment, try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a few minutes. Clear your mind and think only about a person of color who sees every white Disney princess get an attraction or a ride. You have Snow White's mine train. Belle's restaurant and shows. Cinderella's castle and restaurant. Rapunzel has a ride in Tokyo. Sleeping beauty's castle at Disneyland. Frozen's Elsa and Anna own the Norway pavilion at EPCOT. Ariel even has a ride and she's half fish!

Hey, I'm not denying that Tiana deserves a ride. I think The Princess and the Frog would make a great ride. I just feel like Disney's handling this the wrong way. If anything, they should've added a ride based on the film to the parks long before 2020.

Also, I've seen a lot of people say that this retheme isn't being done simply to give Tiana a ride, it's about removing any trace of the Brers. So the "just think of how happy everyone's going to be now that Tiana's getting a ride!" justification doesn't exactly hold water (no pun intended). I'm sure a lot of people would be happy with them replacing Peter Pan's Flight with a Zootopia dark ride because, hey, there are a lot of people that love Zootopia. That doesn't mean that it's something Disney should do, or that Disney has good intentions if they're doing it.

There is nothing sinister at play at this line of thinking. There is no sketchy agenda, no backroom dealings and no conspiracy.

Yes, but how do we know for sure? It's not unheard of for Disney - or ANY company - to do sketchy things. They filmed a movie near a concentration camp, blacklisted a puppeteer after their attempt to cover up them firing him failed, shutting down an animation studio and yet continuing to profit off the franchises that studio created... they even paid Josh Gad a rather measly amount for voicing a character in their highest-grossing animated movie. And if we can bring pre-Iger Disney into this, they also screwed over Robin Williams and went against his wishes when he agreed to voice the Genie in Aladdin.

This is what we know for sure happened:
- Frederick Chambers posts his idea for a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain.
- The idea gains a lot of publicity and traction, with articles posted about it.
- Petitions are started demanding that Disney retheme Splash Mountain to The Princess and the Frog.
- Disney announces that they are going to do just that.

Of course somebody is going to assume Disney had a knee-jerk reaction out of cowardice.

On top of that, there are indeed black people who do like Splash Mountain. Of course, I'm sure there are also black people who love Tiana, or love Splash Mountain and are upset over it closing but are still looking forward to Tiana. Let's not paint all black people with the same brush and assume they're all offended by the attraction simply because of Song of the South's existence.

I get what you're trying to say here, but I'm not going to immediately come to the conclusion that Disney is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. And if people are going to be upset about rides like Mr. Toad and Horizons being closed down years after they were, I see no reason why somebody being upset over Splash Mountain closing should be frowned upon.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Like didn't I just say a few pages back that I get so sick and tired of people straight up inventing stuff?

Seriously. It’s actually embarrassing. There are actual racial slurs out there that we can discuss. “Brer” isn’t on the list.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I have an adopted cousin who's black and probably the biggest Tiana fan I know. She's personally over the moon for the new theme. So it's that excitement from people who can't wait that allowed me to realize "Yeah I'll miss the Br'ers but it's time for them to move along".

Black folks aren't a monolith, though, just like everyone else. I know (and by "I know" I mean people I know in real life) a lot of Black Disney fans are excited, but a lot of folks are also sad. Because this is all fundamentally very sad, but multiple emotions can exist at the same time, and that's okay.

I remember seeing PATF in college with a big group of us from the SFSU Ethnic Studies department when it came out. Everyone was so excited. When the lights came up at the end of the movie, a few people were crying because this wasn't the movie they thought they were getting. They spent their whole lives wanting a Disney Princess who looked like them, and she spent the whole movie as a Frog. She wasn't even a lead character in most of her own movie for a good portion of it. The criticism that folks are JUST starting to bring up now are some of the conversations we were having when the film came out.

I don't claim to speak for other people, let alone Black folks, least of all if they're my friends. I am not trying to tokenize anyone. I respect that everyone has a different relationship with media that effects them, and I AM happy for the folks who are happy.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Seriously. It’s actually embarrassing. There are actual racial slurs out there that we can discuss. “Brer” isn’t on the list.

Like it's literally where the modern use of bruh comes from

 

[Californian Elitist]

Like it's literally where the modern use of bruh comes from

Right! Like, what is happening? I was sitting up last night being thoroughly confused. Reminded me of when all those democratic senators kneeled with kente cloths on their shoulders. Embarrassing, pointless, ignorant… They thought they were doing something lol.

These conversations would be much more fun and productive to have in a college level sociology class, history class, English class, or pretty much any other similar class where the context isn’t a Disney ride, but actual facts and history. Of course, given what’s happening now with Splash Mountain, talking about this on a Disney Parks forum is relevant. However, the discussion is, for the most part, surface level, with very little opportunities to have deep conversations with a significant number of people.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Right! Like, what is happening? I was sitting up last night being thoroughly confused. Reminded me of when all those democratic senators kneeled with kente cloths on their shoulders. Embarrassing, pointless, ignorant… They thought they were doing something lol.

These conversations would be much more fun and productive to have in a college level sociology class, history class, English class, or pretty much any other similar class where the context isn’t a Disney ride, but actual facts and history. Of course, given what’s happening now with Splash Mountain, talking about this on a Disney Parks forum is relevant. However, the discussion is, for the most part, surface level, with very little opportunities to have deep conversations with a significant number of people.

Speaking of which, doesn't it reopen in two weeks from tomorrow?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Speaking of which, doesn't it reopen in two weeks from tomorrow?

I believe so, yes.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Going twice this year. Can't wait to get my last ones in.

 

[EagleScout610]

This is what we know for sure happened:
- Frederick Chambers posts his idea for a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain.
- The idea gains a lot of publicity and traction, with articles posted about it.
- Petitions are started demanding that Disney retheme Splash Mountain to The Princess and the Frog.
- Disney announces that they are going to do just that.

We just spent 2 pages debunking this man

 

[Dear Prudence]

#tbt! From a pre-Indiana Jones pictorial souvenir book.

I've always found it interesting that no one ever mentions that the Remus saying about how animals and humans were once closer is/might be directly related to the Native beliefs about when the Animal People ran the world, and how much better of a world that was. Or maybe it's just a happy coincidence.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Funny, I've had people turn that around saying that Remus was talking about the world being better during slavery.

Of course they would. Another example of people who have no idea what they're talking about just filling in the blanks with misinformation because it makes them appear smart.

I am 99.9% sure this is in reference to both the traditional African and Native cultures, which have extensive "eras" of their history where they (and we, as Native people) lived in a world run by the animal Relatives. In our language, we still refer to animals as "Animal People," or "Relatives." I honestly don't even like talking about it because crap like Pocahontas and Colors of the Wind (which is so, soooo gross) has made it impossible for us to talk about this without it being seen as a "joke."

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I think many people have realized Disney is tearing down their classics and turning them into things of lesser quality.

I'd say for Tianas sake I also don't trust current leadership to do her justice.

I think Tiana in Splash at Disneyland really does make sense if done right. It’s adjacent to NOS, allows them to upgrade the AAs, has a really well done soundtrack and would be a positive representation for a previously underrepresented demographic in the park.

However if this is intended to be a flagship attraction turning a new leaf for the company they should be concerned as well. If the WDW 50th or the Galactic Starcruiser is any indication they clearly lack the internal talent and resources to give this attraction the full scale e-ticket treatment it deserves and I’m under no false pretenses that this could blow up in their faces and please no one.

So while I support this project, this is ultimately a high risk project to embark on. And perhaps one that may require even more years to develop if the in-house talent simply doesn’t exist at this time. At this point it may even be more cost effective to rebuild the structure entirely.

 

[CaptinEO]

I think Tiana in Splash at Disneyland really does make sense if done right. It’s adjacent to NOS, allows them to upgrade the AAs, has a really well done soundtrack and would be a positive representation for a previously underrepresented demographic in the park.

However if this is intended to be a flagship attraction turning a new leaf for the company they should be concerned as well. If the WDW 50th or the Galactic Starcruiser is any indication they clearly lack the internal talent and resources to give this attraction the full scale e-ticket treatment it deserves and I’m under no false pretenses that this could blow up in their faces and please no one.

So while I support this project, this is ultimately a high risk project to embark on. And perhaps one that may require even more years to develop if the in-house talent simply doesn’t exist at this time. At this point it may even be more cost effective to rebuild the structure entirely.

I agree with you. In concept this could be awesome, bayou themed rides with plenty of animals. It could make for a charming and atmospheric ride.

The WDW 50th is very concerning. Heck they've spent 5 years now in rebuilding a ride they already made in Shanghai and it's not done yet.

It's like the people running the park have no idea how to design or construct themepark rides, and they overspend.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The WDW 50th anniversary is both concerning for us and not very concerning. From an anniversary standpoint, it’s not concerning. Disneyland has proven, even in recent years, that they can pull off an anniversary celebration. At the same time, this is all still the same company.

I’d say Avengers Campus and Pixar Pier are better examples as to why we should be concerned.

 

[Dear Prudence]

The WDW 50th anniversary is both concerning for us and not very concerning. From an anniversary standpoint, it’s not concerning. Disneyland has proven, even in recent years, that they can pull off an anniversary celebration. At the same time, this is all still the same company.

I’d say Avengers Campus and Pixar Pier are better examples as to why we should be concerned.

Snow White definitely made me feel a little better. I don't gravitate towards Princesses because that's just not my thing, but Snow White is my GIRL. I LOVE the upgrades. LOVE THEM. I was so worried they were going to ruin it, and it's beyond my wildest dreams.

Pixar Pier, on the other hand.....the Imagineers putting pelicans in a seating area and taking selfie with them, on the other hand.....

 

[Californian Elitist]

Snow White definitely made me feel a little better. I don't gravitate towards Princesses because that's just not my thing, but Snow White is my GIRL. I LOVE the upgrades. LOVE THEM. I was so worried they were going to ruin it, and it's beyond my wildest dreams.

Pixar Pier, on the other hand.....the Imagineers putting pelicans in a seating area and taking selfie with them, on the other hand.....

Exactly. I’m going to miss the scariness of Snow White, but I wouldn’t count the upgrades as a fail by any means. Disney surprises me, sometimes. They seem to be able to handle smaller projects okay. It’s the larger ones that are awful, hence why I have no faith that they will do a good job with this project.

One of my previous supervisors referred to Pixar Pier as “spectacular,” or “fantastic.” One of those adjectives, or something similar. I just stared at her.

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

People always argue that the animated portions of Song of the South are fine, wonderful, masterpiece - and the live action is the problem. But the animated sketches parrallel the live action narrative. I watch the cartoon segments and I see a minstrel show. The ride is a log flume through a minstrel show in my view, but also tries to change *just enough* to not appear as a minstrel, but it's still at the core a blackface entertainment.

 

[celluloid]

I'm gonna go on the record and say that I don't believe the movie is actually racist. A lot of really dumb decisions in plot and production though.

Looking in hindsight It was Disney's first attempt at live action feature length storytelling, not to mention a hybrid. A different time of movie making and the studio was still that new.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Exactly. I’m going to miss the scariness of Snow White, but I wouldn’t count the upgrades as a fail by any means. Disney surprises me, sometimes. They seem to be able to handle smaller projects okay. It’s the larger ones that are awful, hence why I have no faith that they will do a good job with this project.

One of my previous supervisors referred to Pixar Pier as “spectacular,” or “fantastic.” One of those adjectives, or something similar. I just stared at her.

The one part of Snow White that scares my friend to the point where he won't ride it is still there and he still won't ride it, sooooo