Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[Californian Elitist]

To be honest, I didn't really like that movie either. It's only memorable for me for its rather catchy Louis Armstrong soundtrack.

But the orangutang was supposed to be Black instead of just a funny cartoon orangutang? As a fairly average member of 20th Century White America, I honestly never picked up on that. It could be I was too white, or just too polite, to get the joke there.

So is that what that Jungle Book reference is in their pandering Instagram propaganda video? That the orangutang was drawn in 1966 to be a Black caricature instead of an orangutang caricature?

They are apes and monkeys who occasionally speak in AAVE, sing jazz music and even scat, and act like fools. And they’re apes and monkeys. Pretty sure King Louie is based on Louis Armstrong as well.

I don’t think it’s very difficult to understand why some people interpret Louie and the monkeys as African American.

 

[91JLovesDisney]

I don’t think it’s very difficult to understand why some people interpret Louie and the monkeys as African American.

Maybe not if you're looking for it. I'm not.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Maybe not if you're looking for it. I'm not.

Or if you’re not paying attention/aren’t aware of some things, sure. I wasn’t looking for it as a child and yet it’s there.

 

[91JLovesDisney]

Or if you’re not paying attention

Not paying attention?

When I'm watching films a thought like that wouldn't ever occur to me - it's an orangutan. A cartoon orangutan. Dancing on a screen to entertain children.

I would never watch that and think "Wait a second! That cartoon monkey Disney imagined-up 50 years ago could be considered insensitive modern-day!"

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

To be honest, I didn't really like that movie either. It's only memorable for me for its rather catchy Louis Armstrong soundtrack.

But the orangutang was supposed to be Black instead of just a funny cartoon orangutang? As a fairly average member of 20th Century White America, I honestly never picked up on that. It could be I was too white, or just too polite, to get the joke there.

So is that what that Jungle Book reference is in their pandering Instagram propaganda video? That the orangutang was drawn in 1966 to be a Black caricature instead of an orangutang caricature?

I think he was just supposed to be a cartoon monkey version of Louis Prima.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Not paying attention?

When I'm watching films a thought like that wouldn't ever occur to me - it's an orangutan. A cartoon orangutan. Dancing on a screen to entertain children.

I would never watch that and think "Wait a second! That cartoon monkey Disney imagined-up 50 years ago could be considered insensitive modern-day!"

Yes, not paying attention.

I know you wouldn’t think that. Some of us do. Some of us are trained to look past the surface. I have two degrees in English for example; I naturally find details and clues that could symbolize/mean something and learned to do so in my courses.

As a child, I interpreted Louie and the monkeys as being black, particularly African American. Maybe it’s because I’m African American myself and recognized some of the characteristics and behavior from the monkeys as ones being from my own culture. They reminded me of my great uncles. I just asked my mom how she interprets them and she said the same thing: obviously black.

It’s clearly not just me who sees it.

 

[91JLovesDisney]

Yes, not paying attention.

I know you wouldn’t think that. Some of us do. Some of us are trained to look past the surface. I have two degrees in English for example; I naturally find details and clues that could symbolize/mean something and learned to do so in my courses.

As a child, I interpreted Louie and the monkeys as being black, particularly African American. Maybe it’s because I’m African American myself and recognized some of the characteristics and behavior from the monkeys as ones being from my own culture. They reminded me of my great uncles. I just asked my mom how she interprets them and she said the same thing: obviously black.

It’s clearly not just me who sees it.

Well I guess I can’t stop you from using the your English degree to look past the surface of childrens’ movies

 

[TP2000]

They are apes and monkeys who occasionally speak in AAVE, sing jazz music and even scat, and act like fools. And they’re apes and monkeys. Pretty sure King Louie is based on Louis Armstrong as well.

I don’t think it’s very difficult to understand why some people interpret Louie and the monkeys as African American.

I fully got that at the time. The cartoon animals were singing in American Jazz formats. The whole soundtrack was based in American Jazz, which is probably why I like it even though the movie itself wasn't that great. I love jazz. I have dozens of Coltrane and Thelonius Monk and Miles Davis records, and they are played regularly in my home during the cocktail hour. They are singularly one of the finest forms of American art that this country has ever produced.

But that orangutang in Jungle Book was.... offensive to that art form? That absolutely never registered to me. It has always registered to me as a form of respect and honor and a tip of the hat that American Jazz was included in the Jungle Book in the way that it was.

I'm sorry, but... I'm trying, I really am. Am I supposed to be offended that Louis Armstrong was paid handsomely by Walt Disney Productions to create the jazzy memorable soundtrack to an otherwise unmemorable movie 54 years ago?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Well I guess I can’t stop you from using the your English degree to look past the surface of childrens’ movies

You sure can’t, though I don’t necessarily need to use it. Not sure if you’re implying that children’s movies can’t have hidden meanings/symbolism, but in case you are, they absolutely can.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I fully got that at the time. The cartoon animals were singing in American Jazz formats. The whole soundtrack was based in American Jazz, which is probably why I like it even though the movie itself wasn't that great. I love jazz. I have dozens of Coltrane and Thelonius Monk and Miles Davis records, and they are played regularly in my home during the cocktail hour. They are singularly one of the finest forms of American art that this country has ever produced.

But that orangutang in Jungle Book was.... offensive to that art form? That absolutely never registered to me. It has always registered to me as a form of respect and honor and a tip of the hat that American Jazz was included in the Jungle Book in the way that it was.

I'm sorry, but... I'm trying, I really am. Am I supposed to be offended that Louis Armstrong was paid handsomely by Walt Disney Productions to create the jazzy memorable soundtrack to an otherwise unmemorable movie 54 years ago?

I didn’t say Louie was offensive. Just thought he and the monkeys can and sometimes are interpreted as being representations of African Americans.

To be clear, I’m not, nor have I ever been offended by King Louie. He’s my favorite character in the film. Others may feel differently.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I fully got that at the time. The cartoon animals were singing in American Jazz formats. The whole soundtrack was based in American Jazz, which is probably why I like it even though the movie itself wasn't that great. I love jazz. I have dozens of Coltrane and Thelonius Monk and Miles Davis records, and they are played regularly in my home during the cocktail hour. They are singularly one of the finest forms of American art that this country has ever produced.

But that orangutang in Jungle Book was.... offensive to that art form? That absolutely never registered to me. It has always registered to me as a form of respect and honor and a tip of the hat that American Jazz was included in the Jungle Book in the way that it was.

I'm sorry, but... I'm trying, I really am. Am I supposed to be offended that Louis Armstrong was paid handsomely by Walt Disney Productions to create the jazzy memorable soundtrack to an otherwise unmemorable movie 54 years ago?

Louis Armstrong did not work on the Jungle Book. The music was all composed in-house by Disney personnel most notably George Bruns and the Sherman Brothers. Louis Prima did King Louie.

 

[TP2000]

I didn’t say Louie was offensive. Just thought he and the monkeys can and sometimes are interpreted as being representations of African Americans.

To be clear, I’m not, nor have I ever been offended by King Louie. He’s my favorite character in the film. Others may feel differently.

Well, again, you can take this for the little that it's worth. But as an official representative of 20th Century White America, I don't think most of us saw it like that.

I saw it as a silly orangutang singing in 1960's jazz club style. I never really processed it past that basic form. But gosh, wasn't the LP soundtrack great even if the movie was kind of a wash?

I suppose, if I was forced to pontificate endlessly and mercilessly in some university faculty lounge, that I could eventually get to an opinion like "The Jungle Book's use of American Jazz artistry as a form of communication by the Indian animals is racist and offensive". But that would require me to actually be able to stand being in a hopelessly humorless faculty lounge for at least an hour, and I'd get up and leave those bozos long before that.

Like a chunk of the "Wasn't That Racist?!" discussion of decades old pop culture, I have yet to be convinced this is anything with much merit.

If it is something to apologize for, will the Walt Disney Company ask for a written apology from the estate and heirs of Louis Prima? He helped write and compose this soundtrack in 1966, after all. Should the heirs to Mr. Prima's estate apologize for this movie soundtrack? Or just the dead Burbank movie executives from the 1960's who can no longer issue such a statement from beyond the grave?

Who is to blame here? The company that paid Louis Prima to write those songs? Or Mr. Prima himself and the estate he left to his heirs?

 

[TP2000]

Louie Armstrong did not work on the Jungle Book. The music was all composed in-house by Disney personnel most notably George Bruns and the Sherman Brothers. Louie Prima did King Louie.

Oh. Why do I think Louis Armstrong was involved here?

I'm not an expert on this movie. I didn't even like it much. But the music was great.

I've changed my references from Louis Armstrong above, to Louis Prima.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Well, again, you can take this for the little that it's worth. But as an official representative of 20th Century White America, I don't think most of us saw it like that.

I saw it as a silly orangutang singing in 1960's jazz club style. I never really processed it past that basic form. But gosh, wasn't the LP soundtrack great even if the movie was kind of a wash?

I suppose, if I was forced to pontificate endlessly and mercilessly in some university faculty lounge, that I could eventually get to an opinion like "The Jungle Book's use of American Jazz artistry as a form of communication by the African animals is racist and offensive". But that would require me to actually be able to stand being in a hopelessly humorless faculty lounge for at least an hour, and I'd get up and leave those bozos long before that.

Like a chunk of the "Wasn't That Racist?!" discussion of decades old pop culture, I have yet to be convinced this is anything with much merit.

If it is something to apologize for, will the Walt Disney Company ask for a written apology from the estate and heirs of Louis Prima? He helped write and compose this soundtrack in 1966, after all. Should the heirs to Mr. Prima's estate apologize for this movie soundtrack? Or just the dead Burbank executives from the 1960's who can no longer issue such a statement from beyond the grave?

Who is to blame here? The company that paid Louis Prima to write those songs? Or Mr. Prima himself and the estate he left to his heirs?

They’re not African, TP. The story takes place in India, which is located in Asia. Not Africa.

I know you saw it that way. I and others saw and see it a different way. It happens.

I’m going to just ignore your university/faculty/bozo comments.

I don’t think anyone is asking for an apology?

 

[TP2000]

They’re not African, TP. The story takes place in India, which is located in Asia. Not Africa.

I know you saw it that way. I and others saw and see it a different way. It happens.

I’m going to just ignore your university/faculty/bozo comments.

I don’t think anyone is asking for an apology?

Yeah, I keep forgetting it's an Indian folk tale. I see wacky talking jungle animals in a Disney cartoon and I just naturally think Africa. We can blame the success of The Lion King for that.

So he's an Indian orangutang. Singing in 1960's American Jazz style. And Indians are definitely not known for their skill at recreating American Jazz. And yet, there he is, an Indian orangutang doing a bouncy jazz number.

So who is supposed to be offended here? Indians? Orangutangs? Jazz fans? I'm confused.

 

[TP2000]

FYI, I had to Google this. Orangutans don't actually live in India. They are found in Borneo and Sumatra.

This whole outdated notion of orangutans leading jazzy musical production numbers on the Indian sub-continent is a lie.

Will we get an apology Instagram video from Burbank about this lie they have perpetrated since 1967??? I'm not holding my breath.

Also, it's apparently spelled Orangutan. As in tan, like Coppertone. Not tang, like the beverage the astronauts drink. Who knew?!

 

[TP2000]

Okay gang, let's review where we've all been the last six hours (or at least me)....

• Burbank releases an apology video on the 'Gram that uses the orangutang from The Jungle Book as an example of "problematic" Disney products from the past.
• Many of us here are confused about this video. It doesn't make much sense, aside from the predictable "inclusion" words they used.
• Wait @mickEblu, is The Jungle Book now offensive and cancelled? We can't tell, and yet Burbank used it as an example. So?...
• The Jungle Book used jazz in its soundtrack. Jazz is a uniquely American art form performed most often by Black musicians. So, you know, that must mean it was racist. Or something. Right? I'm confused.
• But wait, the Jungle Book soundtrack used jazz in a respectful and honorable way. Still racist? There was an orangutan!
• The Jungle Book is not based in Africa (oops!). It is based in India. Yet there were jazzy musical production numbers.
• And the organgutan and his musical number! But it turns out, orangutans are not found in Africa, nor are they in India. They are in southeast Asia; Borneo and Indonesia mostly. So is it still racist?
• Also, Louis Armstrong had nothing to do with this movie. It was Louis Prima, who was Italian. Was Mr. Prima racist for taking this Disney cartoon gig in 1966 about India that used jazz? Do his 21st century heirs owe us an apology because Mr. Prima agreed to perform for Walt Disney Productions in 1966?
• And finally, I learned its spelled orangutan, like Coppertone and not the astronaut orange drink. For my entire life I've been pronouncing it orangutang, like what the astronauts drink. Who knew?! Am I really the only one? Probably.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Yeah, I keep forgetting it's an Indian folk tale. I see wacky talking jungle animals in a Disney cartoon and I just naturally think Africa. We can blame the success of The Lion King for that.

So he's an Indian orangutang. Singing in 1960's American Jazz style. And Indians are definitely not known for their skill at recreating American Jazz. And yet, there he is, an Indian orangutang doing a bouncy jazz number.

So who is supposed to be offended here? Indians? Orangutangs? Jazz fans? I'm confused.

I think we can blame it on your possible assumption that all monkeys must come from Africa, not The Lion King.

You’re turning this into something it’s not and going in unnecessary directions. King Louie and the monkeys appear to have African American characteristics. That’s it. I’ve already explained why some people interpret it that way. You’re confusing yourself.

Yes, ORANGUTANS are definitely offended, as they should be.

 

[TP2000]

I think we can blame it on your possible assumption that all monkeys must come from Africa, not The Lion King.

You’re turning this into something it’s not and going in unnecessary directions. King Louie and the monkeys appear to have African American characteristics. That’s it. I’ve already explained why some people interpret it that way. You’re confusing yourself.

Yes, ORANGUTANS are definitely offended, as they should be.

Well, I've personally seen monkeys in Japan, so that can't be it.

But it's a movie based in India. Using Indonesian monkeys for the big musical production number.

So am I okay in still liking the soundtrack? I'm an old white guy who loves jazz, remember. Is it cool? Am I racist?

 

[Sharon&Susan]

So looks like the video was made just to advertise a new site to show off how diverse and inclusive Disney is/promises they will be:

Reimagine Tomorrow - Disney launches Reimagine Tomorrow amplifying underrepresented voices.

Accurate, diverse representation matters. Reimagine Tomorrow reflects The Walt Disney Company’s commitment to supporting diversity in media and entertainment.

reimaginetomorrow.disney.com

As @BuzzedPotatoHead89 mentioned earlier, I don't know why Disney decided to focus on their old racially insensitive material in the trailer when the focus seems to be entirely on future projects instead of anything about the old (I can't find a mention of any of the recent Disney parks changes).