1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
Let me guess, it's from 'Song of the South'? Your favorite movie?I’m right all the time, so just refrain.
Disobedience and its ingredients
I just will not entertain.
(10 pts. if you can name that movie!)
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion
- Thread starter Californian Elitist
- Start date
Rich T
Well-Known Member
No, but it is a non-Disney fantasy film that Disney has its own version of. Music by John Barry!
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
Howard the Duck
Rich T
Well-Known Member
No, but that’s *another* weak fantasy film Barry wrote an amazing score for! (It’s the 7O’s Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland)
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
I knew that.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Great... So when they remove all the Song of the South references from the ride you should hardly notice.
1HAPPYGHOSTHOST
Well-Known Member
There are no song of the south references. having the characters from the animated segment is not referencing the movie.
SplashGhost
Well-Known Member
It would have been good if Disney had used the Brer characters more outside Song of the South. Some of the early Mickey cartoons were quite problematic also, but Mickey's identity was never tied to those cartoons that strongly, since he was used so much.
Splash Mountain gave the Brer characters a chance to stand on their own outside Song of the South, but I feel that if there had been several Brer shorts produced over the years, it would have helped these characters be more distant from Song of the South. The characters had existed in different forms before Song of the South, and they even existed before the Uncle Remus stories.
If only Walt had decided to make some Brer Rabbit shorts instead of wrapping a live action movie around some shorts, these characters wouldn't have to deal with the legacy of Song of the South.
Splash Mountain gave the Brer characters a chance to stand on their own outside Song of the South, but I feel that if there had been several Brer shorts produced over the years, it would have helped these characters be more distant from Song of the South. The characters had existed in different forms before Song of the South, and they even existed before the Uncle Remus stories.
If only Walt had decided to make some Brer Rabbit shorts instead of wrapping a live action movie around some shorts, these characters wouldn't have to deal with the legacy of Song of the South.
el_super
Well-Known Member
I know... isn't it great?
It wouldn't make a difference. The characters, their very reason for being, didn't belong to Disney and were taken from another culture. There no way to get around that. Any use of those characters will be a reminder of the blatant appropriation, and the status/power of the people who stole them.
SplashGhost
Well-Known Member
Aladdin and Mulan were stories taken from other cultures too, so shouldn't any trace of them be eradicated from the parks also?
I’d argue that appropriation is not the main problem here. The problem is SotS and the Brer characters happen to be in the film.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Sure.
That sort of leads down the discussion of ... what are the root issues with the film and why are they in the film? A lot of that has to do with the flaw in thinking that a studio like Disney's in the 1940s, could take those stories, take that culture and history and spin it in a way to present it to an audience for profit, without really consulting/considering the ramifications. The worst, most cringe inducing parts of that film, are in there because Disney felt they had a right to tell that story the way they wanted and they didn't care who they hurt.
The thing is, white people, particularly Joel Chandler Harris, had already taken the stories and appropriated them long before Disney did in the 1940s, many decades before, to be more specific. It had already been spun. At that time, society wasn’t thinking and talking about appropriation and racism in general the way we do now, hence why Disney had no issues with including the racist crap in their shorts and films during that era. It was the norm.
The historically problematic parts of the film mainly deal with factors of the film that aren’t necessarily appropriated: Remus, his relationship with Johnny, and the other black folk in the film (who barely have a presence at all). Not the Brers.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
It's not too late for them to do that. Have the project handled by people of color who love the stories, and I feel they could pull it off. But Disney's too cowardly to do it.
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
I find it ironic that someone here compared [SotS] to Gone with the wind. Seeing as GWtW is still in circulation while SotS is banned.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Gone With the Wind Mountain
Just because one is readily available to the public doesn’t mean the films themselves can’t be compared.
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
The reactions to the IPs and their distribution or lack thereof can. I meant that they use it as an example of something that wouldn’t fly and should be excised from cultural consciousness, yet it is still fully distributed and viewed
Rich T
Well-Known Member
That makes no sense. The animated segments are, in fact, clips from the movie (and the animated sequences contain some of the most offensive moments). The entire ride score is taken from the film, and the live-action song scores are heard in the queue. Quotes from the live action scenes are posted in the queue.
You can say the ride’s creators did everything possible to remove the offensive elements of the film and focus on tbe positive, but to say the ride contains no Song of the South references, and suggesting that the animated characters are not references to the movie is just not true.
Song of the South is film history and Disney history. Splash Mountain is based entirely on the characters and plots from the movie’s animated sequences, and without those scenes there’s no functioning movie. The two sides are interwoven, and in tbe finale the animated characters enter the live action world to play with Remus, the kids and their dog.
Defend Splash Mountain because its intent is to save and celebrate the artistry and joyful elements of a problematic movie, but please don’t say the ride contains no SotS references, because... yes, it does.
If Mary Poppins was, for some reason, declared problematic (there’s a book-based reason that could conceivably happen) and some people wanted the Penguins removed from the parks, you could say the Penguins themselves are not offensive in any way, but you couldn’t say their existence is not a reference to Mary Poppins.
Last edited:
Rich T
Well-Known Member
I think GWtW is far more offensive than SotS. And, yeah, it’s still in circulation.
Sometimes life isn’t fair. But Disney is the studio with an image to maintain, and since they market so heavily to children, they get the scrutiny first.