Theme Park Think Tank with Len

[nickys]

I feel like Disney has had Touring Plans in their sights for a long time. When FP+ was introduced, I noted that Disney would have easy access to a lot of the same data Len and crew have been collecting manually all this time. With Genie, they'll be using a similar predictive idea to help guests with planning, competing with yet another TP edge. I wouldn't be surprised if more copied services are to come.

Disney certainly have the data. Do they have what it takes to use it to their advantage? Do they have the analysts with the skills to devise the algorithms that @lentesta and his team use to create their touring plans? I doubt it, those skills have been honed by Len’s team for many years now, Disney are just starting out and are way behind the curve.

Disney also have an ulterior motive in order to monetise Genie. They want to make guests feel they really must buy that FP.

 

[lentesta]

Disney certainly have the data. Do they have what it takes to use it to their advantage? Do they have the analysts with the skills to devise the algorithms that @lentesta and his team use to create their touring plans? I doubt it, those skills have been honed by Len’s team for many years now, Disney are just starting out and are way behind the curve.

Disney also have an ulterior motive in order to monetise Genie. They want to make guests feel they really must buy that FP.

Not gonna lie - I'm excited about the competition.

 

[Family_Man]

Not gonna lie - I'm excited about the competition.

So, how much lead time do you think it will take to incorporate lightning passes and other items into Touring Plans? The permutations with all these options sound as if the additional complexity will increase exponentially.

(I understand if you don't want speak on products in development).

 

[lentesta]

So, how much lead time do you think it will take to incorporate lightning passes and other items into Touring Plans? The permutations with all these options sound as if the additional complexity will increase exponentially.

(I understand if you don't want speak on products in development).

It depends on the rules around them. And that we won't know for a while.

 

[Rickcat96]

Very good listen, informing Thanks Len

 

[allknowingeye]

Disney certainly have the data. Do they have what it takes to use it to their advantage? Do they have the analysts with the skills to devise the algorithms that @lentesta and his team use to create their touring plans? I doubt it, those skills have been honed by Len’s team for many years now, Disney are just starting out and are way behind the curve.

Disney also have an ulterior motive in order to monetise Genie. They want to make guests feel they really must buy that FP.

They have something TEN THOUSAND TIMES BETTER - they have live up to the second data on what is happening. And to have a plan leading you around like a ring in your nose is the best way to destroy a vacation, save your money.

 

[nickys]

They have something TEN THOUSAND TIMES BETTER - they have live up to the second data on what is happening. And to have a plan leading you around like a ring in your nose is the best way to destroy a vacation, save your money.

Believe me, I’ve never slavishly followed a touring plan. But I do use TP to make a good plan of what my family want to do each day.

Each to their own.

 

[Beacon Joe]

Disney certainly have the data. Do they have what it takes to use it to their advantage? Do they have the analysts with the skills to devise the algorithms that @lentesta and his team use to create their touring plans? I doubt it, those skills have been honed by Len’s team for many years now, Disney are just starting out and are way behind the curve.

They definitely do, and one of them was a fellow student in my grad school cohort and we went through ML together. I tried to pick his brains a few times about how things operate there. I deduced a few things about his team, skills, and size, but he really wasn't comfortable saying too much about their internal operations or what projects they were tasked, which I totally understand. I wasn't after any of their secret sauce; I was really just angling for a job lol.

I used to work for an engineering R&D lab, and used some of Disney Research's published academic papers at times in our literature review. There's a strong pool there and interesting things going on that also leads me to say, "yes, they have the talent on tap in their orbit." Now, their focus is another matter. Have they had a dedicated group devoted to studying guest behavior, routing/flow decisions, wait time predictors, etc? That I don't know.

Disney also holds a respectable data and analytics conference every year, which is a decent one for people in the industry and generally includes sessions on analytics research internally at WDW, and I assume Disney also hosts this to help keep their in-house guys fresh and connected with the larger field.

edit to add: I'm sure that Testa knows far more about what capabilities Disney has or does not have and can correct any of my assumptions above, but I wouldn't expect him or even ask him to spill the beans.

 

[sunshine]

I just found this thread after listening to this Tomorrow Society episode.

I am 1000% in agreement with Len's comments re: the Harmonious barges. I'm a big big pixie-duster, spend lots of $$ at Disney, and I take most changes in stride. But the barges are atrocious.

Perfectly manicured gardens, elaborate architecture, escapism, and then... a giant, ugly, oil rig eyesore? ?? ???

Come admire our world-class themed environments, carefully-tended flower topiaries, and behind them please enjoy a bunch of big, dark, clunky, mechanical behemoths! Who wants take a photo in front of THAT? Who wants to pay for that view during dinner?? Not me. Not anywhere on earth would I want to spend a day with those barges as a backdrop, and especially not in Epcot.

I just... no. No nighttime show is worth this. My thanks to Len for being a voice of sanity.

 

[allknowingeye]

They definitely do, and one of them was a fellow student in my grad school cohort and we went through ML together. I tried to pick his brains a few times about how things operate there. I deduced a few things about his team, skills, and size, but he really wasn't comfortable saying too much about their internal operations or what projects they were tasked, which I totally understand. I wasn't after any of their secret sauce; I was really just angling for a job lol.

I used to work for an engineering R&D lab, and used some of Disney Research's published academic papers at times in our literature review. There's a strong pool there and interesting things going on that also leads me to say, "yes, they have the talent on tap in their orbit." Now, their focus is another matter. Have they had a dedicated group devoted to studying guest behavior, routing/flow decisions, wait time predictors, etc? That I don't know.

Disney also holds a respectable data and analytics conference every year, which is a decent one for people in the industry and generally includes sessions on analytics research internally at WDW, and I assume Disney also hosts this to help keep their in-house guys fresh and connected with the larger field.

edit to add: I'm sure that Testa knows far more about what capabilities Disney has or does not have and can correct any of my assumptions above, but I wouldn't expect him or even ask him to spill the beans.

It doesn't take a lot of brains to design plans - most of it is just obvious, and always has been. The real genius is designing plans that are designed to take advantage of a bunch of people slavishly following a paid for plan or silly notions that are posted on the internet or people who pay someone to learn the "secret" tricks of Fastpass that anyone can find for free and THWART them all by following the only plan that really works, and I will give you this "shhhhh super secret" for free - throw away all the stupid plans and just have FUNNNNNNNNNN!

 

[DHSfanatic]

That's the thing: We know Tron and Guardians are in line for 2022 because they've been working on them for years.

Anything big that's coming in 2023 should've been started in 2019.
Anything big that's coming in 2024 should've been started in 2020.
Anything big that's coming in 2025 should've been started in 2021.

I think at the pace Disney works, we're not likely to see anything major for a while after Tron/Guardians. Maybe they'll hold off opening one of them until 2023, just to have something to announce.

That makes sense ... unfortunately. The surprising thing to me is that they don't seem to be responding to Universal's opening a third gate. I suppose if Tron and Guardians are both home runs, they may continue to bring in crowds for awhile. But to have had nothing significant opening during the three years prior to Epic Universe opening in 2025 seems puzzling.

 

[drizgirl]

That's the thing: We know Tron and Guardians are in line for 2022 because they've been working on them for years.

Anything big that's coming in 2023 should've been started in 2019.
Anything big that's coming in 2024 should've been started in 2020.
Anything big that's coming in 2025 should've been started in 2021.

I think at the pace Disney works, we're not likely to see anything major for a while after Tron/Guardians. Maybe they'll hold off opening one of them until 2023, just to have something to announce.

Long dry spell coming our way for sure. Covid, Covid, Covid you know.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Once the parks are making billions again, projects that were indefinitely delayed can be restarted... they already (presumably) have the plans. Other projects that were cut (Coco, Imagination) could start to move forward. And we've been told there's a long list of other projects none of us have heard about.

But yeah, there will be another one or two years without new projects.

 

[DHSfanatic]

Once the parks are making billions again, projects that were indefinitely delayed can be restarted... they already (presumably) have the plans. Other projects that were cut (Coco, Imagination) could start to move forward. And we've been told there's a long list of other projects none of us have heard about.

But yeah, there will be another one or two years without new projects.

That would be great if it happens. Love to see Imagination get an overhaul, but not sure the likely changes from a Coco overlay would necessarily be an improvement on The Three Caballeros, which I actually kind of like.