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The two-finger point...
- Thread starter DisneyGentlemanV2.0
- Start date
This.
Donillary Crumpton
Well-Known Member
I think many people who are claiming the cigarettes should remain in the photos are missing the entire point Disney has been trying to make.... bad things do not exist!
Sure we could go the logical route and teach children that yes, Walt was a great man who unfortunately had a deadly habit which ultimately cost him his life. This would also teach kids to stay away from said habit themselves, and take healthy measures to ensure their own lives are not cut short due to the same mistake. But wouldn't it be so much easier and Disney-magical to simply create the illusion that cigarettes never existed for Walt in the first place? As the old saying goes: "A strong society is created when people bury their heads in the sand and dismiss any & all dangers rather than learning from them."
Just like how most of the alligator / crocodile related merchandise items were stripped from park store shelves both in WDW & DLR this summer after the tragic gator incident at GF. Disney was showing that it's far better to simply ignore the existence of potential dangers in the world rather than teaching people that yes, they are out there.
I personally do not want my children growing up knowing about cigarettes, cancer, sickness, alligators, and any other thing that can bestow harm upon them. That is not the Disney way. Walt never smoked. Alligators are only a myth. Maleficent, just like any bad person, is simply "misunderstood", and there is nothing harmful or bad out there in the world today. The more we can hide from our children, and shelter them from the dangers that await in this world, the better prepared they will be for tomorrow.
Sure we could go the logical route and teach children that yes, Walt was a great man who unfortunately had a deadly habit which ultimately cost him his life. This would also teach kids to stay away from said habit themselves, and take healthy measures to ensure their own lives are not cut short due to the same mistake. But wouldn't it be so much easier and Disney-magical to simply create the illusion that cigarettes never existed for Walt in the first place? As the old saying goes: "A strong society is created when people bury their heads in the sand and dismiss any & all dangers rather than learning from them."
Just like how most of the alligator / crocodile related merchandise items were stripped from park store shelves both in WDW & DLR this summer after the tragic gator incident at GF. Disney was showing that it's far better to simply ignore the existence of potential dangers in the world rather than teaching people that yes, they are out there.
I personally do not want my children growing up knowing about cigarettes, cancer, sickness, alligators, and any other thing that can bestow harm upon them. That is not the Disney way. Walt never smoked. Alligators are only a myth. Maleficent, just like any bad person, is simply "misunderstood", and there is nothing harmful or bad out there in the world today. The more we can hide from our children, and shelter them from the dangers that await in this world, the better prepared they will be for tomorrow.
bethymouse
Well-Known Member
It is what it is! Walt smoked! Give me a break!
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
If there was a big conspiracy by Disney to not acknowledge the fact that Walt smoked, then I don't think they would have acknowledged it in Saving Mr. Banks.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
This is called lying, and is not only a terrible lesson for kids, but sets a terrible precedent and may cause them to mistrust.
You can take all the toy alligators out of WDW, that's fine, there was a specific reason for that and it probably won't last forever.
But when you present children with a man standing there with his hand out like that and no explanation, they're going to be suspicious.
Forgive me for being direct, but if you think you can shield your children from anything that might frighten or upset them, you're kidding yourself.
If they don't want to put pictures of Walt with cigarettes up, then don't. Find pictures of him without them and use those pictures. But don't try to alter reality to suit others' tastes or opinions. It's outright deception.
Walt smoked and alligators exist.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
It is what it is! Walt smoked! Give me a break!
Right?!
and "Walt Before Mickey."
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Interesting, but, really makes no sense at all. What possible reason would exist for it to be of any real reason to do that. If Walt was so worried about having pictures of him holding a cigarette, why would he want people to be reminded about how he held one. Come-on!
When I was in the bus business, we had ample opportunities to have to point things out. The main one was if someone was standing at a bus stop that the particular bus you were driving was not supposed to stop at, re-actively people jumped up and down trying to get the driver to stop. Many times the driver would innocently point upward to the sign so that they could see that this was not the bus they really wanted. You would not believe how many calls we would get from angry people saying not only did the bus not stop, but, the driver flashed them the bird as he drove by. We adopted the two finger point so it couldn't be mistaken for the flip off. It worked instantly. Oh, they still called upset because the bus didn't stop for them, but, we never got another obscene gesture complaint again.
rk03221
Well-Known Member
Its just the way walt pointed and he didnt want people to think "oh the cms point with two fingers because walt smoked", it doesnt sound too good, especially to children
Nemo14
Well-Known Member
Perhaps Donillary's response was a bit tongue-in-cheek?
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Actually both are true.
My understanding is that it originated from hiding the fact that Walt was smoking and it was adapted into a culturally approriate way for cast members to point.
That is, it could have been a full "open hand point" instead, but Walt pointed with two findgers when he smoked, so that form was adopted as the standard for cast members.
Florida_is_hot
Well-Known Member
Politically correct revising history is always wrong.
Better message would be showing him smoke and mentioning he died of lung cancer.
A Stop Smoking Message.
I remember when John Wayne died they had a similar message.
Better message would be showing him smoke and mentioning he died of lung cancer.
A Stop Smoking Message.
I remember when John Wayne died they had a similar message.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how the two things relate, but, OK. I just has more positive reasons then one that requires someone to know that Walt smokes or doesn't. Me thinks you were fed a crock during training. There are numerous reasons why it's a better idea to use two fingers, psychologically, that are much more legitimate then the Walt story. Some things just don't ring true and that is one. I'm not saying that they didn't tell you that was the reason, just that it isn't even close to being a good reason.
Simba's Mom
Well-Known Member
Actually our son was in the Traditions program and he said that there really isn't any instruction (or at least there wasn't in his class). He said that as soon as he got there, the 2 fingered (or whole palm) point just kind of came naturally. And then when DH was there visiting DS, he got to go in some "CM ONLY" places and since he did, guests asked him questions, assuming he was a CM-"Where is....?" As he pointed, he noticed that he just instinctively used the multi-fingered point.
Berret
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
It's Disney Magic. Or Walt's influence from beyond the grave on each CM that compels them to do it.
Cowboy Steve
Well-Known Member
Food for thought because I honestly don't know... how much work was it to doctor pictures prior to the digital age? Any 10 year old with a computer can photoshop just about anything anywhere today. But back in the 40's or 50's? Yikes...
