The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[John]

I thought the idea of Cirque being there was it was a unique show you couldn't see anywhere else?

Changing the show would be on them, not Disney.

I agree, but what we are talking about is unique experiences....no? Does it matter who is responsible to change the show? Is Cirque an unique experience? Absolutely! I have seen it twice. If they changed it I would go see the new show. But out of those who would/could spend the money to see it how many are first time visitors? Also at this point is it truly unique? As I have said they tour my city a couple times a year. Yes, I live close proximity to a large city but the point is most people has had the opportunity to see a Cirque show. Hardly an experience unique to DS. Look at what DTD was 20 years ago.....PI? celebrated NYeve every night. It was absolutely a unique experience. Speaking of Cirque, when I first visited WDW I never even heard of the show. It was my first exposure. Starabilia, That was an incredibly unique store. Problem with that is the internet crushed its core business. Even the pin store was unique. They sold unique pins you couldn't find anywhere. They had set up a trading post outside the store. IMO Disney is the one who killed that golden goose by not offering UNIQUE pins. I collect antiques and collectables....I can think of a few ways they could have fostered the interest in pin collecting.....having pin shows is one of them. That certainly is unique. We wont even go into the merch that is now being offered in the Disney stores.....that's been well documented.

SO where do we go from here. None of this exist today. I again ask....where is the "uniqueness" at DS? SO lets say I give you Cirque on your side of the ledger....anything else?

 

[John]

Long-time lurker..had to log in to post something on this.

I think it's great that Disney is throwing in the towel on running deluxe resorts and will now be focusing on running timeshares and motels. Because they haven't run a proper deluxe resort in a long time. A big part of running a true luxury hotel is service, which shows in so many ways. It's hard to quantify, but you know it when you see it. Better for Disney to cede that business to the real players like the Four Seasons. No coincidence that the FS moved in right when this plan was being hatched. One example, you can't call the front desk...my mind boggles when I think about this.

It's kind of similar to the way they gave up on running real restaurants.

We've always stayed deluxe and then we started to rent DVC 1 brs through Disney when we needed more space, only at BCV/BW/BLT. The DVC units (from the perspective of someone renting them directly) are basically disgusting, but we put up with them for the space and the proximity to the parks. I'm talking fingerprints on the windows and lamps, the carpets were gnarly, furniture is beat up, walls are beat up. And it was obvious to me that the housekeeping isn't being given enough time to thoroughly clean the units in between stays. And the daily housekeeping that you are supposed to get when you book through Disney? Good luck getting that. 9 times out of 10 the housekeeper boss lady will pretend that she thought you were DVC when you call looking for your daily housekeeping. It's easier to just bring some Clorox wipes, wash your own towels and put the do not disturb sign out. Now we stay offsite and some accommodations are good, some are great, but the prices are more in line with what you get.

Anyway, we don't mind paying for value on our vacations and the WDW parks work for us right now spectacularly as a family vacation (along with UOR). The one place where I probably disagree with many on this board is regarding the parks. I actually think the parks are fine for what you pay, and I don't think ticket prices are outrageous. Compared to what we spend at local amusement parks or the boardwalk down the shore to ride a few rides...eh, ticket prices really aren't that bad and we still have a lot of fun in the WDW parks. That might change for us in the future, who knows. It's really the food and resorts that are driving us away. I have this thing now where I try to enjoy the parks while spending as little as possible on Disney food and hotels (and merch) at Disney. That's pretty sad when you get to that point.

As far as prices, the whole thing is a house of cards. They need the prices to be X at the deluxes so they can charge Y at the values, etc. All of the rooms are ripoffs, the deluxes aren't the worst offenders.

I think the moderate DVCs will be a hit if they can find a way to price them a bit lower. So many people who can't afford the regular DVC would love to buy into DVC, so they can feel fancy-schmancy as well. Brilliance there, pure brilliance.

I gave you your first "like" you will always remember your first....

 

[Nubs70]

Long-time lurker..had to log in to post something on this.

I think it's great that Disney is throwing in the towel on running deluxe resorts and will now be focusing on running timeshares and motels. Because they haven't run a proper deluxe resort in a long time. A big part of running a true luxury hotel is service, which shows in so many ways. It's hard to quantify, but you know it when you see it. Better for Disney to cede that business to the real players like the Four Seasons. No coincidence that the FS moved in right when this plan was being hatched. One example, you can't call the front desk...my mind boggles when I think about this.

It's kind of similar to the way they gave up on running real restaurants.

We've always stayed deluxe and then we started to rent DVC 1 brs through Disney when we needed more space, only at BCV/BW/BLT. The DVC units (from the perspective of someone renting them directly) are basically disgusting, but we put up with them for the space and the proximity to the parks. I'm talking fingerprints on the windows and lamps, the carpets were gnarly, furniture is beat up, walls are beat up. And it was obvious to me that the housekeeping isn't being given enough time to thoroughly clean the units in between stays. And the daily housekeeping that you are supposed to get when you book through Disney? Good luck getting that. 9 times out of 10 the housekeeper boss lady will pretend that she thought you were DVC when you call looking for your daily housekeeping. It's easier to just bring some Clorox wipes, wash your own towels and put the do not disturb sign out. Now we stay offsite and some accommodations are good, some are great, but the prices are more in line with what you get.

Anyway, we don't mind paying for value on our vacations and the WDW parks work for us right now spectacularly as a family vacation (along with UOR). The one place where I probably disagree with many on this board is regarding the parks. I actually think the parks are fine for what you pay, and I don't think ticket prices are outrageous. Compared to what we spend at local amusement parks or the boardwalk down the shore to ride a few rides...eh, ticket prices really aren't that bad and we still have a lot of fun in the WDW parks. That might change for us in the future, who knows. It's really the food and resorts that are driving us away. I have this thing now where I try to enjoy the parks while spending as little as possible on Disney food and hotels (and merch) at Disney. That's pretty sad when you get to that point.

As far as prices, the whole thing is a house of cards. They need the prices to be X at the deluxes so they can charge Y at the values, etc. All of the rooms are ripoffs, the deluxes aren't the worst offenders.

I think the moderate DVCs will be a hit if they can find a way to price them a bit lower. So many people who can't afford the regular DVC would love to buy into DVC, so they can feel fancy-schmancy as well. Brilliance there, pure brilliance.

Short term brilliance, long term failure. WDW, will reap a windfall at first but will kill the sacred PRGS metric. The only way to retain the current PRGS targets in the new structure will be to totally separate DVC from hotel room. The real true measurement of the success/failure of this business model will be to combine PRGS of both hot and DVC.

 

[Fishbait]

Anyway, we don't mind paying for value on our vacations and the WDW parks work for us right now spectacularly as a family vacation (along with UOR). The one place where I probably disagree with many on this board is regarding the parks. I actually think the parks are fine for what you pay, and I don't think ticket prices are outrageous. Compared to what we spend at local amusement parks or the boardwalk down the shore to ride a few rides...eh, ticket prices really aren't that bad and we still have a lot of fun in the WDW parks. That might change for us in the future, who knows. It's really the food and resorts that are driving us away. I have this thing now where I try to enjoy the parks while spending as little as possible on Disney food and hotels (and merch) at Disney. That's pretty sad when you get to that point.

As far as prices, the whole thing is a house of cards. They need the prices to be X at the deluxes so they can charge Y at the values, etc. All of the rooms are ripoffs, the deluxes aren't the worst offenders.

I think the moderate DVCs will be a hit if they can find a way to price them a bit lower. So many people who can't afford the regular DVC would love to buy into DVC, so they can feel fancy-schmancy as well. Brilliance there, pure brilliance.

I wouldn't have a problem with the price for admission...if for a few things.

Upkeep the parks.
Upkeep the rides/queues.
Do something about your frontline workers. Treat them better, pay them better, demand excellence.
Do something about guests who act like idiots.

In the last 5 years the decline in all of those areas has been noticeable. To the point that we are not planning on doing our annual trip there next year or any year in the near future.

 

[71jason]

That concept art is just one small section of DS correct? They aren't putting a roof the whole way around the lake.

Yes, the rest will look largely like it looks now. Which is still pretty mall-esque.

 

[GrammieBee]

I would never buy directly from Disney, but we bought via resale in 2010, and it's worked well for us. We bought 100 points at 67 dollars per point. This is enough for us to go once per year and stay around 6 nights in a studio during the less busy times of the year. Comparing rack rates to our $6700 investment, we're already ahead after our visits to SSR, BLT, and VGC (Disneyland was wonderful, btw). So this year we're spending 2 nights at VB followed by 5 at AKL-KV, all for our annual dues of $491. Add to that the discounted APs, and yes, I do believe we come out ahead.
Edit: Okay, "never" is a lie. In my current economic status, I wouldn't by directly. If I won the lottery or discovered an unknown wealthy relative, I'd be seriously tempted by those bungalows at the Poly. I know them's fightin' words in these here parts, but I find those most intriguing.

Thank you for your reply. It appears that you did very well indeed.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Ummmmm don't you think there is a smidge of contradiction in your post?....maybe just a little?



Bowling alley....unique? When was the last time Cirque changed shows? Cirque comes to my town a couple times a year. DQ? surely you gest.

"Just another shopping mall" is hyperbole, but I'm not impressed with what I have seen thus far from Disney Springs.

DQ is fun, as stale as it is... it just needs a couple attraction switchouts and a good paint, scrub, and recarpeting to be up to snuff; I know that might be an unpopular opinion, but it's still better than a Dave & Buster's. Bowling alleys like Splitsville and Lucky Strike are popular now. It's not my thing, either, but I still recognize that it's popular. Even if Cirque comes to your town a couple of times a year, it's probably not at your local mall. And they're not doing La Nouba.

 

[71jason]

Bowling alley....unique?

I guessing neither you nor @Cosmic Commando have been there? Because I'm as close to a regular as they have (headed there in 30 minutes in fact). And it's not even a bowling alley, it's a really big TGI Fridays. Some decent food, very pleasant staff, but not really anything more than a chain restaurant on steroids. The sort of thing you'd expect would anchor a mall.

 

[GrammieBee]

Thank you for your reply.

When DVC guides and sales staff quote savings, it is based on a complete cash purchase at the time of signing. The interest rate for an initial purchase is 15.25% over a 10-year period. Interest nearly doubles the initial points purchase price.

 

[cw1982]

Even if Cirque comes to your town a couple of times a year, it's probably not at your local mall. And they're not doing La Nouba.

Actually, here in Atlanta, when Cirque comes to us, it is at a shopping mall. Atlantic Station may have a residential area as well, but most people going there are there to shop and eat... so for all intents and purposes relevant to the vast majority in Atlanta, Atlantic Station is a big outdoor mall.

 

[71jason]

DQ is fun, as stale as it is... it just needs a couple attraction switchouts and a good paint, scrub, and recarpeting to be up to snuff; I know that might be an unpopular opinion, but it's still better than a Dave & Buster's.

It's still dirty and run-down inside--not true of Orlando D&B. Half the machines don't work, with no way of alerting staff to that fact--unlike D&B. D&B makes it a point to bring in new machines on a regular basis--newest thing at DQ is Wreck-It Ralph from 2012 (and a third of those don't work). D&B has decent food and a full bar--DQ has an aging snack bar that looks like it was taken directly from the Daytona Boardwalk. D&B skeeball machines give tickets--DQ do not.

Sorry to jump on you two posts in a row (really, normally a fan!), but can you back that statement up? Is it really the horribly dated three or four 1990s V.R. games they keep around?

Even if Cirque comes to your town a couple of times a year, it's probably not at your local mall. And they're not doing La Nouba.

We're hanging a lot on Cirque when probably <1% of DTD/DS visitors attend the show any given trip.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

It's still dirty and run-down inside--not true of Orlando D&B. Half the machines don't work, with no way of alerting staff to that fact--unlike D&B. D&B makes it a point to bring in new machines on a regular basis--newest thing at DQ is Wreck-It Ralph from 2012 (and a third of those don't work). D&B has decent food and a full bar--DQ has an aging snack bar that looks like it was taken directly from the Daytona Boardwalk. D&B skeeball machines give tickets--DQ do not.

Sorry to jump on you two posts in a row (really, normally a fan!), but can you back that statement up? Is it really the horribly dated three or four 1990s V.R. games they keep around?



We're hanging a lot on Cirque when probably <1% of DTD/DS visitors attend the show any given trip.

This is IMO, but... Pirates is legitimately good. TSMM tech in cool, walkaround set. Buzz, Virtual Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain are OK. There are some lesser diversions that are worth keeping (if they haven't been removed). Put in a couple of attractions more like Pirates, and you've got something. Of course, Disney has to care about DQ. I know it's run down, but the bones of something good are still there. I think it's still worthwhile. Is it worth the $50 or whatever the standalone admission is? No, but 3 of the 4 parks aren't worth their standalone price, either. Most people probably go on WPF&M or an AP.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

This is IMO, but... Pirates is legitimately good. TSMM tech in cool, walkaround set. Buzz, Virtual Jungle Cruise, Space Mountain are OK. There are some lesser diversions that are worth keeping (if they haven't been removed). Put in a couple of attractions more like Pirates, and you've got something. Of course, Disney has to care about DQ. I know it's run down, but the bones of something good are still there. I think it's still worthwhile. Is it worth the $50 or whatever the standalone admission is? No, but 3 of the 4 parks aren't worth their standalone price, either. Most people probably go on WPF&M or an AP.

Honestly, I can't believe DQ is still open. How can that thing make any money? Wouldn't it be more profitable as a Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique?

I'm still stuck on the overwater teepees. These people need to be saved from themselves.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I guessing neither you nor @Cosmic Commando have been there? Because I'm as close to a regular as they have (headed there in 30 minutes in fact). And it's not even a bowling alley, it's a really big TGI Fridays. Some decent food, very pleasant staff, but not really anything more than a chain restaurant on steroids. The sort of thing you'd expect would anchor a mall.

I was operating under the impression that it's a Friday's/sports bar where you can also bowl. It's still a popular and fairly unique concept. And better than another boring shop or restaurant.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Honestly, I can't believe DQ is still open. How can that thing make any money? Wouldn't it be more profitable as a Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique?

I'm still stuck on the overwater teepees. These people need to be saved from themselves.

It's full when it rains. Its roof is the only thing getting ROI in the building.

Edit: I think the concept could still work very well. The problem is Disney doesn't care about DQ. Disney thinks it's dead, so it is; it's a microcosm of what's happening with the outdoor parks.

 

[DznyGrlSD]

Bowling alley....unique? When was the last time Cirque changed shows? Cirque comes to my town a couple times a year. DQ? surely you gest.

I thought the idea of Cirque being there was it was a unique show you couldn't see anywhere else?

Changing the show would be on them, not Disney.

Sorry for encouraging the thread-drift but since I worked @ Cirque I have to chime in. The La Nouba theatre & stage are specifically designed for the La Nouba show. IF they were to ever change shows they'd have to shut down for a while to re-design the theatre, stage & backstage areas. Probably not going to happen. Look how long Mystere has been running in Vegas. Every Cirque show is unique and La Nouba can only be seen at DTD

 

[flynnibus]

Here you go...

Thank you. Hopefully now the point is clear

 

[dadddio]

They've rebuilt the Court of Angels to expand Club 33, moved the door, and turned it into a mess. There's a great article on MiceAge with photos that show the full horror (was down when I checked but might be working now)

One wonders why they didn't wait until the project was done, rather than running an article that shows the changes unfinished.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

One wonders why they didn't wait until the project was done, rather than running an article that shows the changes unfinished.

That's not how the Internet works.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Staying on the topic of hotel rooms.....

Right now I'm at a courtyard by marriott in suburban Philly. Big room. Big comfy beds. Decent TV & amenities. My point? Far beyond any moderate I've stayed while at WDW. On par with the room at the contemporary. Huge shower - one I won't hit my head in - and things that are slightly above the basics.

Short version: a Moderate at Disney isn't as nice of a room as a Courtyard by Marriott.