NateD1226
Well-Known Member
Thanks so much!! I love Knotts so much! It is a simple park but gives great amount of joy. Have you rode Hangtime yet?? I rode it a couple weeks ago and it was AWESOME. Knotts definitely did a great job with executing it.
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The Sorcerer's Apprentice Season 5 - ENDGAME
- Thread starter D Hulk
- Start date
Count me as another big Knott’s aficionado. I’d go so far as to call Budd Hurlbutt my favorite Imagineer (something he never technically was). Oh yes, @nated1226, Hangtime is lots of fun, especially as a huge improvement over the Boomerang. Much better use of space. Ghostrider, I can say definitely, is the best wooden coaster in California. The old school rides and theming of Ghost Town are top notch; it’s the best Old West themed land in Orange County!
@TheOriginalTiki, @Pi on my Cake, I’m loving these podcasts. Loving how in-depth you’re going. Not following live due to drunken social obligations, but I’m keeping abreast. Cannot wait for tonight’s!
@TheOriginalTiki, @Pi on my Cake, I’m loving these podcasts. Loving how in-depth you’re going. Not following live due to drunken social obligations, but I’m keeping abreast. Cannot wait for tonight’s!
Pi on my Cake
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Glad you're enjoying them! Hopefully you'll enjoy drunk obligations and the next podcast too! Lol maybe we'll combine those one time when you're watching live and set up a podcast drinking game haha
How about every time either you or Tiki has internet problems, we take a shot!
Or every Mario reference.
I’m failing to think of a drinking game that won’t result in fatal alcohol poisoning.
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
How about every time either you or Tiki has internet problems, we take a shot!
Or every Mario reference.
I’m failing to think of a drinking game that won’t result in fatal alcohol poisoning.
You want a real man's drinking game...watch Serenity and take a shot each time Anne Hathaway's character calls Jason Clarke "daddy". You'll be dead before you hit the insane plot twist
PerGron
Well-Known Member
You want a real man's drinking game...watch Serenity and take a shot each time Anne Hathaway's character calls Jason Clarke "daddy". You'll be dead before you hit the insane plot twist
That movie was such a ride oh my god
TheOriginalTiki
Well-Known Member
Going live at the top of the hour!
Pi on my Cake
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
We are live! follow along here or in youtube chat and I'll be watching the comments so you can interact!
Incidentally, the answers to this thing:
1. The Villains World (DisneySea's Halloween show, the unofficial theme song for Season 5, and @AceAstro's new favorite song
- Journey to the Center of the Earth
- Sindbad’s Storybook Voyage
- Nemo & Friends SeaRider
- Raging Spirits
- King Triton's Concert
- Celebrate!
- 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
- Tower of Terror
- Fantasmic!
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spacemt354
Chili's
We're posting this while catching a red-eye flight back to the states - what a crazy 10 days in Tokyo! You can read about it below!
Stanza III Trip Report
Disneylover152
Well-Known Member
Pi on my Cake
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
There's a Google Sites that allows makes website building easy and lets you embed Slides and Docs in it?!?! That is good to know
Magic Feather
Well-Known Member
Team Princes Review
I will admit, I am impressed about how well the final project came out given how rocky brainstorming was, but this still felt off. Many of the critiques and comments from the previous two stanzas still apply unfortunately.
For instance, the Mickey Avenue Area came across as a plussed Toontown, and Pixar Boardwalk was just a plussed Pixar Pier. Additionally, the different areas felt very loosely tied together. Cohesion and replication were two of the biggest critiques from Stanzas I and II respectively, and it is a shame that these issues were still present.
Disney’s Animation Kingdom simultaneously felt like the name of a Theme Park and a fuller name: neither of which work for this project IMO. I enjoyed the relocation, although my big concern is also the location. Old Ikspiari worked because it was right next to the Metro station, allowing Japanese locals to take City transport there, and not pay for a separate ride on the Disney Resort Line (Monorail). That said, I still felt as though this was a solid #2 for location, and you tied it in to the surrounding parks exceptionally well.
Traverse Town was solid, despite some awkward overlap with other areas. If Traverse Town was going to be included, I feel as though it should have just been the whole thing due to its flexible nature. (Also, slight nitpick, a Six Theater Theater dramatically cuts down in the amount that Ikspiari has).
Poppins in the Park was a nice, well thought out area. Friendship Boardwalk felt like Pixar Pier, but it, and especially the Marine Lie Institute (except for Turtle Talk which is already in DisneySea), was solid. My only nitpick is regarding the UP balloon. In some images, you made it seem like the entire UP House was a part of the attraction for the Mt. Prometheus perspective, but later you had the house on the ground as a part of a restaurant.
Mickey Ave. was a solid area, and I am very glad that you guys finally addressed third party stores. That said, I still feel as though there is a very disproportionate lack of Third Party focus compared to Ikspiari.
On the whole, it was a slightly jumbled project, but still a nice concept.
I will admit, I am impressed about how well the final project came out given how rocky brainstorming was, but this still felt off. Many of the critiques and comments from the previous two stanzas still apply unfortunately.
For instance, the Mickey Avenue Area came across as a plussed Toontown, and Pixar Boardwalk was just a plussed Pixar Pier. Additionally, the different areas felt very loosely tied together. Cohesion and replication were two of the biggest critiques from Stanzas I and II respectively, and it is a shame that these issues were still present.
Disney’s Animation Kingdom simultaneously felt like the name of a Theme Park and a fuller name: neither of which work for this project IMO. I enjoyed the relocation, although my big concern is also the location. Old Ikspiari worked because it was right next to the Metro station, allowing Japanese locals to take City transport there, and not pay for a separate ride on the Disney Resort Line (Monorail). That said, I still felt as though this was a solid #2 for location, and you tied it in to the surrounding parks exceptionally well.
Traverse Town was solid, despite some awkward overlap with other areas. If Traverse Town was going to be included, I feel as though it should have just been the whole thing due to its flexible nature. (Also, slight nitpick, a Six Theater Theater dramatically cuts down in the amount that Ikspiari has).
Poppins in the Park was a nice, well thought out area. Friendship Boardwalk felt like Pixar Pier, but it, and especially the Marine Lie Institute (except for Turtle Talk which is already in DisneySea), was solid. My only nitpick is regarding the UP balloon. In some images, you made it seem like the entire UP House was a part of the attraction for the Mt. Prometheus perspective, but later you had the house on the ground as a part of a restaurant.
Mickey Ave. was a solid area, and I am very glad that you guys finally addressed third party stores. That said, I still feel as though there is a very disproportionate lack of Third Party focus compared to Ikspiari.
On the whole, it was a slightly jumbled project, but still a nice concept.
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
I don't have a ton of time today so I'll just make this quick. This was... a stumble. Your brainstorming was a clusterf of ideas and you were really going somewhere but all of a sudden, you dropped that Studios idea just to go for a generic mishmash. The lack of third party shops is a huge problem, the small movie theater would be useless in a city known for having massive theaters, and the whole thing just didn't work and I think you all knew that but it was difficult to change it at that point so you made the best of the bad hand you got yourself.
We're posting this while catching a red-eye flight back to the states - what a crazy 10 days in Tokyo! You can read about it below!
Stanza III Trip Report
Last night I slowly luxuriated over both prompts, savoring every detail. I slept on it, let my impressions percolate, and here come some fully-considered thoughts.
NEW ENGLAND PRINCES
Disney’s Animation Kingdom
Having followed your trainwreck of a brainstorm for well over a week, I must say the final result is far more coherent than I could’ve realistically expected. Let’s highlight upfront my favorite thing of the entire project: The Presentation!
This really seems to be Princes’ strong suit. It’s what won you Stanza II. Can it paper over a confused thought process?
I’ll say this. Doing a “trip report” presentation – a wholly original idea, one which holds future promise – is the perfect choice given your circumstance. Many of the images were perfectly integrated into the conceit, the in-jokes were funny, and it paints a true guest experience. As Western tourists, your unfamiliarity with Japanese culture is justified. It’s the “found footage film” of Sorcerer’s Apprentice presentations. The “you are there” faux-realism and the freeform writing style help to paper over any lapses in concept. This was a brilliant 11th hour Hail Mary, but sadly one which just fell short of the end zone.
What is the concept here? Kingdom Hearts, Mary Poppins, Silly Symphonies, Pixar, maybe Big Hero 6 and Frozen. It’s a mishmash joined by corporate branding, fueled by an Iger-esque panic to fit EVERYYYTHING into your project. It’s DCA’s Pixar Pier as a shopping mall! Realism points: This seems like something modern Burbank would really propose. Would the OLC agree to this? They rejected a proposed DHS clone in favor of the wholly original DisneySea.
Regarding relocating from the existing Ikspiari location (which both teams did) – I applaud that decision wholeheartedly! I actually think Princes chose the best possible relocation…which is really hard to ascertain with your zoomed-in map. You guys clearly have map skills, so more attention there would’ve been wonderful. The southwest corner shares a Monorail, “good neighbor” hotels, backdoor access to Disneyland and DisneySea (and its upcoming in-park hotel), plus it can be walkable back up to the Esplanade area where day guests originate. It’s ideal! This could’ve been done with either the Real World™ DisneySea 2022 expansion or the SAU expansion, and it confounds me that you took several days of not seeing the 2022 solution before finally forcing the SAU approach.
Our tour begins in Traverse Town. I’ll be honest: You should’ve made this your entire concept. This was a week-long argument which never got settled. A single-IP video game is potentially limiting, but that depends on how you handle it. As someone with no knowledge of Kingdom Hearts, I understand this setting. As a gateway to other worlds, you can do anything here. There’s broad appeal in Traverse Town’s look and basic conceit, plus deeper activities for game fans. Communicated well, the narrow IP isn’t a liability. Plus, Traverse Town allows for all the other IPs you guys added anyway, so it begs the question why there’s a Pixar boardwalk when Pixar characters could easily go here.
Overall, what you’re presenting doesn’t feel like a shopping/entertainment district. It feels like you’re forcing theme park tropes into a mall. Other than a single throwaway reference, there is no discussion of third party shop or restaurants…that is, the very foundation of what Ikspiari/Disney Springs/Downtown Disney are all about. The one-of-a-kind themed Disney experiences are hugely important as well, but they’re always built upon a more familiar shopping framework.
Is Gummi Ship adventure a shooting dark ride? Is the Toon-tastic Trolley a screen-based ride? If you’re gonna evolve the “mall” concept this much, make that your entire raison d’etre. Build around that idea. Taken as individual elements, things like this feel more random.
I know it isn’t fun to make a list like “Zara, Baby Gap, 21 Forever.” It isn’t fun to write ride stats, or to describe hotel room dimensions, but former SA projects have added those things to create realism, to create a foundation where playfully creative ideas can then flourish. You guys struggled so, so hard to avoid creating a mall that you kinda lost sight of things. There seem to be like 60 or so unique Disney-themed shops and restaurants, all with meticulous backstories. (In isolation, they’re all great actually!) It would be good to give a few signature locations this degree of detail, but not a whole city’s worth. Rather, how would like a Victoria’s Secret be tastefully incorporated into the worlds you’ve created? That’s a concern you’ve barely addressed.
There are weird mistakes. The big volcano in DisneySea is called “Mt. Prometheus,” not “Mt. Vesuvius.” You call the Monsters Inc. sushi restaurant “Harry Housen’s” when the photo directly below that calls it “Harryhausen’s.” As a fan of Ray Harryhausen, that’s irksome. The Mickey Avenue area is essentially an improved Toontown, which is something Tokyo Disneyland has 100 yards away. My strongest advice to both teams would be to RESEARCH THINGS! (This’ll be important coming up.) You can save days of debate by Googling stuff in 5 minutes.
Among the project’s individual components, the best would be the Marine Life Institute. This is clearly a work of passion and knowledge. It would be the district’s centerpiece, so the extended write-up is warranted. Knowing Japan’s love of the seas, coupled with how ludicrously popular marine exhibits seems to be throughout Asia, I suspect this would be a gigantic draw. (I love the illustrations too!) I’m reminded of the Ocean Park aquarium in Hong Kong, which is a high compliment.
I’m generally coming across harshly, which is just because we can always learn and improve. You gaijin have much to be proud of, particularly given the behind-the-scenes shenanigans which led to the final product. Given that this is a project without a foundation, really, the end result is enviable. When this team starts working, they’re fantastic! You just need to get to that point. There is already discussion in your PM about improving the brainstorming phase, which is precisely where your focus should be at the moment.
LOS ANGELES WARRIORS
Tokugawa Village
Reading music:
Team Warriors does well at honing in on a concept quickly and fine-tuning it. There were separate ideas for a Japanese fishing village, and for a four seasons theme, so I love how you were able to combine those ideas into a stronger whole.
Conceptually, some might argue that Tokugawa Village is too safe. That you’re simply selling Japan back to the Japanese, that you’re copying an omnipresent aesthetic and offering no new draws for either locals or tourists. I would completely disagree with those arguments. I suspect that this would be hugely appealing to Tokyo audiences. Having been to ancient sites, having explored the faux-ancient shopping areas surrounding Kyoto’s shrines, I can attest that there is a hunger for the pre-modern. Tokyo today is basically Blade Runner, so a chance to visit a simpler era (one preserved into the modern age full of high-end brands) would be incredibly attractive.
I was never worried about your concept or content. Up until the moment you posted, however, I was deeply worried about your presentation. Team Princes has quickly established themselves as presentation professionals, so it behooves Team Warriors to meet them on the field of battle. To my great relief, your website is beautiful and elegant. For all the last-minute scrambling in the team PM, the final result is one to be proud of. (It’s less revolutionary than Princes’ “trip report,” but it’s an established presentation style which works well.) Forgive me, who was responsible for the website?
Despite this…I would advise that you plan and schedule more in advance. This is especially important when so many of your teammates are justifiably distracted with work and life. Make the presentation a part of your planning from the early phases, because idea-wise you already mesh well.
There are typos and whatnot here and there. When you preplan for a proofreading phase – which you’ve done in the past – these can be avoided. The most egregious error? Your PM got the project’s name wrong in the introductory post! “Tokuwaga Village?!” Oh no!
One thing that’s missing from the website – something which would really strengthen your season neighborhoods – is better map making. It’s hard to see where each season lies in the overall layout, which makes it hard to ascertain if you’ve fixed Ikspiari’s maze issues. Again, plan in advance so the maps aren’t a fourth quarter addition. I do love the spiraling waterways; a bit more exploration of their influence would be worthwhile.
Regarding the location: It makes some sense since OLC is a landfill company. You might be blocking off an inlet canal and the nearby fish gut factories. Industrial smokestack sight lines will be an issue. That’s local info I wouldn’t expect you to know, and it can be resolved with a canal extension and a careful layout. Locating Tokugawa Village alongside the DisneySea entry is…well, it’s out-of-the-way for day guests who aren’t visiting DisneySea. It requires a purchased Monorail transfer for Tokyo citizens arriving by MTA, and it’s too far removed from the resort’s central complex nearer to Ikspiari’s current location.
Anyway, on to the project…
Tokugawa Castle is rightfully your centerpiece. The writing and, most importantly, the research on display here is absolutely top notch! It is undeniable that serious thought went into respectfully representing Japanese culture. This colors your overall project, lifting up everything around it. There are aspects of Tokugawa Castle which are clearly meant for Japanese visitors rather than Western tourists. The cultural stuff would appeal to visitors like myself, at least, and I suspect you had me very specifically in mind when writing this. Tokugawa Castle is classy, high-end, and it effortlessly communicates a quiet grandeur to the entirety of Tokugawa Village.
Each season was the product of 1 or 2 teammates. They were made in separate PMs, which was sometimes hard to keep track of. You had discussions about redundant elements like too many Starbucks. In the future, I would recommend a different division of tasks: Assign one teammate to list out all shops, another for restaurants, and that way the descriptions throughout the different neighborhoods will feel more connected. It will be a nice improvement, because there are already bits of connective tissue like the haikus which help tie everything together like the Dude’s rug.
Winter: Nice, appropriate place-making and activities to compliment the expected store brands. Here and throughout, you’ve captured that essential “mall” essence while still providing a superior environment which would attract non-shoppers like myself. That’s really what this challenge was about.
Spring: Year-round cherry blossoms would be a huge draw! Kudos on identifying a specifically Japanese concept of spring. As a Japanophile, I’d like to hear more about other cultural festivals (and related streetmosphere) which could further elevate these seasons. Spring needs a shop listing.
Summer: The lantern festivities satisfy my craving. The brief and limited shop/restaurant descriptions paint a picture of what more could be here, though like with Spring I miss some of those details.
Autumn: This section has the most detailed descriptions, plus a light touch of Disney. It’s missing a map or a shop list. Really, I think a slight reorganization of assigned tasks would create better flow across your neighborhoods.
So you have a gorgeous central icon/attraction, four distinctively-themed and complementary neighborhoods…and Golfing. Yeah, this feels like the project’s outlier. It feels like one player got excited about making mini golf and simply went off solo in that direction. For a project which is otherwise so carefully unified, this seems random. Following the writerly descriptions of Tokugawa Castle, it’s jarring to discover a “generic Japanese garden” “built around the scared [sic] castle’s moat.”
Compared to Princes’ Animation Kingdom, Tokugawa Village is a bit lacking in attraction activities. What you have is certainly appealing. There is no mention of a movie theater, or anything akin to the multitude of escape rooms and arcades and whatnot which Princes included. A bit more pure quantity would be good.
There are individual hiccups in your project, but thankfully the Tokugawa Village foundations – much like those of Edo Castle itself – are strong. That solid concept is what distinguishes you from Princes’ freeform jazz noodling of an idea. Learn to build from your excellent starting points, learn as a team not to flame out as the due date nears. That’s how you’ll improve!
kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
Princes
I'm on about 4 hours of sleep, so let's see how legible this review will be...
Team Princes, these last three rounds, you have been the winner of coolest presentation methods. The trip report is so unique and it immerses me in your project. It makes your project better, and in a way it slightly justifies some mistakes. It is truly awesome.
Now onto the concept itself. The brainstorming was chaotic and the final product represents this. It was clear from the brainstorming that the prompt was never realized. Your team designed a theme park where the main focus isn't on dark rides - rather walkthroughs and cool experiences. As D Hindley said, you were lacking in the 3rd party retailers department. I mean Disney Springs is almost all 3rd party retailers with limited exceptions. Your team began to realize this lapse in judgement, and has already planned how to better communicate that so I commend you.
The Traverse Town discussion... In my opinion, the idea is great. A gateway between worlds where Disney characters can meet up sounds like a unique idea. I would've limited the KIngdom Hearts franchise involvement here, however. Obviously, Traverse Town is from Kingdom Hearts, and you have every right to mention that, but I would've limited it to one location and a ton of easter eggs. As a whole though, this location would be the perfect framework for your entire district - simply have all of the other districts be a part of this one overarching cityscape. It allows for the perfect blend of everything.
I like the detail that was put into the aquarium. It felt like it was your district's version of DisneyQuest - a huge way to spend the day in the Downtown section. This was definitely the highlight of your proposal.
I know last round, your team was criticized for not thinking outside of the box enough, but I feel like that was your big problem again. But this time, I think you thought outside the box a little too far, to the point where you forgot the prompt.
Overall, I think your team did a great work at expressing your individual creativites. You just need to work together to create something that feels a little more unified.