The Next Non-IP Attraction.. Will It Happen?

[bryanfze55]

Good insight. I'm sure there are key demographics Disney is trying to target that we sometimes may not understand. Regarding criteria as to what does and doesn't work, i'd argue an IP will work if the ride and its story stands on its own without the IP attachment. Some do, some don't.

As for people going to see the IP's for familiarity.. as @marni1971 previously pointed out, attractions like Soarin' and Test Track and Everest are still pulling in solid crowds. Doesn't that matter?



Mission Cheapout is Guardian's of the Galaxy, Mission Breakout in Disney's California Adventure. In Joe Rhodes words, it's a "Warehouse Fortress Power Plant" (and looks like an oil complex industrial building) in the middle of what was a decent looking area. It makes no sense, nor does the futuristic story, especially had there been no IP attachment.

Pandora is extremely well made, but IMO that's because Pandora in Avatar was extremely well made. The creativity was still limited because the land had to "feel" like Avatar. I'm not ragging on Pandora by any means - it's just this "we're gonna copy the movies and only do that" attitude that's taking the parks in a whole new direction.

I think the average guest is drawn to IP. Everest, Test Track and Soarin’ have long waits due to being in parks that have less than ten rides and maybe five “good” rides.

When Disney took down Maelstrom decor and put up Frozen decor in its place, wait times went from 5 minutes to multiple hours. The message that Disney has been receiving for the last decade is that IP matters. Kind of all started with the nearly universal (no pun) positive reactions to Harry Potter Land in Universal.

As much as I love Tom Sawyer Island, Enchanted Tiki Room, and Country Bear Jamboree, would Disney stay in business if that’s the type of attractions they were cranking out?

 

[marni1971]

Balance and location. That’s all those who care want.

Didn't hurt the company before.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

See for me, I questions the hate for a ride that hasn't even opened yet. so without even seeing or riding it's hated because it's Ip. I'd much rather have Mission cheapout than the Ellen crap even if the ellen ride fit the "theme" of the park.

It didn't have to be Ellen or GotG coaster, it could've been something else.

I think the average guest is drawn to IP. Everest, Test Track and Soarin’ have long waits due to being in parks that have less than ten rides and maybe five “good” rides.

When Disney took down Maelstrom decor and put up Frozen decor in its place, wait times went from 5 minutes to multiple hours. The message that Disney has been receiving for the last decade is that IP matters. Kind of all started with the nearly universal (no pun) positive reactions to Harry Potter Land in Universal.

As much as I love Tom Sawyer Island, Enchanted Tiki Room, and Country Bear Jamboree, would Disney stay in business if that’s the type of attractions they were cranking out?

In California, Hyperspace Mountain is pulling the same wait times as Space Mountain, and Incredicoaster is pulling the same wait times as California Screamin'. Why are the former supposedly better again?

Taking Maelstrom and turning that to Frozen is like taking an Ipod and turning it to Google's Android. Why do that when you could've just made the Ipod an Iphone? If that fails to resonate, i'm saying Frozen is the better attraction because Maelstrom wasn't strong to begin with. They thought Frozen was the right path, but what if they tried something else all-original and better?

We have no measure that says Everest and TT and Soarin' could be better if they were given an IP overlay. FoP is going strong but that's because it's a capacity nightmare and an interesting ride system.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As for people going to see the IP's for familiarity.. as @marni1971 previously pointed out, attractions like Soarin' and Test Track and Everest are still pulling in solid crowds. Doesn't that matter?

No, because the franchise mandate is not a business decision. It is a personal decision.

you see FOP or ROTR as a copy of something else? You're saying that route is a less better idea

Of cours there is nothing to lose if the imagineers had free rein but I deal in reality. I've worked in major corporations all my life (research and development) and everyone has constraints based on time and money. Heck, I'd love if my boss gave me a blank check. I have relatives in the movie industry, yeah they would all love to have the leeway to make what they want, how they wanted but again that's not reality.

You’ve never heard of Avatar or Star Wars?

The franchise mandate has absolutely nothing to do with time or money.Timeliness have been dragged out and costs have soared dramatically even with the mandate. So this issue of “reality” is nothing more than an excuse made to justify something you claim to not know or care about. Why make up excuses if you don’t care?

 

[eliza61nyc]

It didn't have to be Ellen or GotG coaster, it could've been something else.


In California, Hyperspace Mountain is pulling the same wait times as Space Mountain, and Incredicoaster is pulling the same wait times as California Screamin'. Why are the former supposedly better again?

Taking Maelstrom and turning that to Frozen is like taking an Ipod and turning it to Google's Android. Why do that when you could've just made the Ipod an Iphone? If that fails to resonate, i'm saying Frozen is the better attraction because Maelstrom wasn't strong to begin with. They thought Frozen was the right path, but what if they tried something else all-original and better?

We have no measure that says Everest and TT and Soarin' could be better if they were given an IP overlay. FoP is going strong but that's because it's a capacity nightmare and an interesting ride system.

Very true, I can't speak to that because Im not familiar with the process of deciding. Maybe GOTG was the "better" that they came up with. Maybe an imagineer thought it was great since marvel was a hit. Don't know.

 

[eliza61nyc]

You’ve never heard of Avatar or Star Wars?

The franchise mandate has absolutely nothing to do with time or money.Timeliness have been dragged out and costs have soared dramatically even with the mandate. So this issue of “reality” is nothing more than an excuse made to justify something you claim to not know or care about. Why make up excuses if you don’t care?

Just participating in the conversation. What the heck are you talking about. Its not excuses it's simply my opinion., I like Ip I don't care if they use it endlessly as long as it's good.
I'm not making excuses for Disney.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Is this sarcasm? Kinda hard to tell these days.

Oh, of course!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just participating in the conversation. What the heck are you talking about. Its not excuses it's simply my opinion., I like Ip I don't care if they use it endlessly as long as it's good.
I'm not making excuses for Disney.

You literally just came up with justifications for Guardians of the Galaxy - Mission: Breakout! despite not knowing anything about it. You also justified Disney limiting the Imagineers from coming up with the best ideas for the parks because of “reality” even though you say you know nothing about the decision process.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

No, because the franchise mandate is not a business decision. It is a personal decision.

A personal decision from Iger & Chappy & Co?

 

[Walter Elias Disney]

so basically IP has always been used in the parks.

You are correct...I'm sure I'll be corrected again since some get very uneasy when assisted. WE have always had a great team.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A personal decision from Iger & Chappy & Co?

Just Iger.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

You are correct...I'm sure I'll be corrected again since some get very uneasy when assisted. WE have always had a great team.

No one's asking Disney to shelve IP's. We're asking for balance, and frankly i'm astonished that's so difficult to understand.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No one's asking Disney to shelve IP's. We're asking for balance, and frankly i'm astonished that's so difficult to understand.

I will say that asking for balance is still asking for the same sort of problem. In trying to get balance you have to look at something besides the story and guest experience. Like movie makers being allowed to make the best movies, the Imagineers should be allowed to make the best attractions they can, well, imagine. If those best ideas are IP-based then so be it, but at least they had the freedom to dream.

 

[Brer Panther]

So basically, what I'm hearing from the "all IPs and only IPs" mindset defenders is that casual parkgoers are idiots who will love anything no matter how crappy it is because it has an IP attached and hate any attraction that doesn't have an IP attached to it and will only go on them if there aren't many other good rides in the park. Has any casual parkgoer ever actually said, "You know what Test Track needs? Spider-Man!" or "I only went on Expedition Everest because there isn't anything else to do in this park. They should really make it a Frozen ride, that'll REALLY make it good!"?

 

[danlb_2000]

For those of you who don't know, the last non-IP E-ticket was Expedition Everest in 2006. Is there a possibility, even an inch of hope, that we will get another non-IP E-ticket in the future? Or is Disney set on this path to Universal, forever doomed to the pit of IP, and who ever succeeds Iger and Chappy will continue this trend in the foreseeable future..?

The debate has raged on but THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT IP vs Non-IP.
I just want to know your opinions and predictions regarding if there is room in the industry for another original made in the spirit of Space, Thunder, Everest, Tiki Room, It's a Small World, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Soarin', etc etc.

It will happen when the release a movie titled "non-IP".

 

[massiv]

So basically, what I'm hearing from the "all IPs and only IPs" mindset defenders is that casual parkgoers are idiots who will love anything no matter how crappy it is because it has an IP attached and hate any attraction that doesn't have an IP attached to it and will only go on them if there aren't many other good rides in the park. Has any casual parkgoer ever actually said, "You know what Test Track needs? Spider-Man!" or "I only went on Expedition Everest because there isn't anything else to do in this park. They should really make it a Frozen ride, that'll REALLY make it good!"?

dont forget about unpopular non-ip attractions like space mountain and haunted mansion. im sure everyone woud love it if btmrr was torn down and replaced with frozen ever after 2.

 

[It Is What It Is]

Has anyone paid attention to the box office the last few years? What do the masses go see? Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, DC Comics....

There are some Indie film makers and Studio divisions like Fox Searchlight that put out great films but do they make any money in comparison to the Marvel's? Maybe 10% of what a Marvel movie makes if they are lucky. Ford vs Ferrari hasn't hit 200 million worldwide yet (193 as of writing), not quite 20% of Aladdin and maybe 8% of Endgame. Other potential Oscar nominated films: Parasite 123 million and One Upon a Time in Hollywood 372 million (well done!)

Is there anyone here that is asking for this 'balance' under 35? There might be, my hunch is that the majority of those who want 'balance' are over that age. This world, its a changin' place! If a company is going to spend over 100 million on building a ride, it makes sense to go with something well known like Guardians of the Galaxy. If you want to appease the indie film goer, put a Space 220 restaurant next door. And I'm not disagreeing 'balancers': I'm sure that same system used for the new GotG coaster in the probable Brazil pavilion as some kind of journey through the rainforest canopy would be incredible!

But of course this concept of 'balance' is opinion based. What a 40ish plus Disney fan wants compared to a twenty-something hopes for in an amusement park are probably two different things.

Following the money, the theater I saw Endgame in, I'm pretty sure the people 35 and under out numbered those over: three to one. Your experience might have been different, but probably not. Thus, the great new ride system goes to GotG, not the rainforest.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Has anyone paid attention to the box office the last few years? What do the masses go see? Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, DC Comics....

There are some Indie film makers and Studio divisions like Fox Searchlight that put out great films but do they make any money in comparison to the Marvel's? Maybe 10% of what a Marvel movie makes if they are lucky. Ford vs Ferrari hasn't hit 200 million worldwide yet (193 as of writing), not quite 20% of Aladdin and maybe 8% of Endgame. Other potential Oscar nominated films: Parasite 123 million and One Upon a Time in Hollywood 372 million (well done!)

Is there anyone here that is asking for this 'balance' under 35? There might be, my hunch is that the majority of those who want 'balance' are over that age. This world, its a changin' place! If a company is going to spend over 100 million on building a ride, it makes sense to go with something well known like Guardians of the Galaxy. If you want to appease the indie film goer, put a Space 220 restaurant next door. And I'm not disagreeing 'balancers': I'm sure that same system used for the new GotG coaster in the probable Brazil pavilion as some kind of journey through the rainforest canopy would be incredible!

But of course this concept of 'balance' is opinion based. What a 40ish plus Disney fan wants compared to a twenty-something hopes for in an amusement park are probably two different things.

Following the money, the theater I saw Endgame in, I'm pretty sure the people 35 and under out numbered those over: three to one. Your experience might have been different, but probably not. Thus, the great new ride system goes to GotG, not the rainforest.

It’s creepy that you know the ages of everyone posting here.

Roller coasters costing hundreds of millions of dollars is itself a problem that isn’t being fixed for the same reasons the franchise mandate exists.

 

[wm49rs]

It’s creepy that you know the ages of everyone posting here.

Roller coasters costing hundreds of millions of dollars is itself a problem that isn’t being fixed for the same reasons the franchise mandate exists.

And, people tend to believe only the “latest and greatest” are what brings people to these parks....

 

[It Is What It Is]

It’s creepy that you know the ages of everyone posting here.

Roller coasters costing hundreds of millions of dollars is itself a problem that isn’t being fixed for the same reasons the franchise mandate exists.

If you are paying attention its not too hard to tell